Thousands of Polish women attend Czarny Piątek rally in Warsaw

That argument - who is going to care for an imperfect human being - can be applied to any person at any stage of his or her stage in life. Your point about the death panels is spot on. Too much effort? Out with him.

One can either leave the baby in the hospital (after signing forms) or leave the baby in 'okno zycia' with nuns. Both are ok as far as the legal system is concerned. Later on one has to actually go to more 'trouble'.


To be fair I would like to cap it all at 12 weeks but sadly the medicine is just not there yet.

@Ironside
Maybe if you have spend that time writing your arguments instead of ranting about people you disagree with you could have any chance at getting your message through.


Because to survive the fetus needs the women body and in the process can influence her health. As soon as the science will allow for the embryo to be extracted and grown outside of the women body we can say that it's only about the fetus. Up to then someone has to carry and give birth.

The problem with abortion is that almost no one is consistent.

At one end, completely free completely unrestricted no-questions asked and no stigma abortion rights - hardly anyone wants that...

At the other, 100% no abortion even if the fetus isn't viable and/or the woman's life is in danger if she carries it to term - almost no one wants that*....

Almost all people are in the middle somehwere (closer to one end or another but not at the weirdo fringe extremes).

*to be completely consistent you have to support the process that denied an abortion to Savita Halappanavar and support her death (not be happy about it but think it was the right outcome). You also have to want to imprison women who get abortions.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar

Reasonable. But I suggest some additional time to woman.


What? They force Serbs of Poland (Kashubs, Lusatians, etc) to live under such a law? But its like sharia law in Bosnia. If not frightening I would say its funny.

Thay have THAT in Poland?


Said Expert.


Go, turn yourself into woman and try to talk to people like yourself. You would hate but, you would still spread your legs


Admit, brate pawiane, you believed I am most crazy person on this forum and now you see your error. I myself are fascinsted with brat Iron. Or sister Iron if he just decide to experiments.

Whatever laws are on the books, they should be with the consent of the voters, not rammed by the courts as "rights".

True but that is exactly why the compromise was so important (even if I didn't completely agree with it). It opened a Pandora box.

In my dream world there wouldn't be any abortions and in my a bit less than dream world a women facing such decisions would have available all sorts of helpful info: geneticists, hospice stuff, psychologists, financial advisor... That in panic abortion is not the only way she can see.

_Finally_ you're right about something!

@Novichok

I am deeply shocked. Shaken even.

Men should have a say in deciding what the abortion laws are because men suffer the consequences and have to carry the burden of producing wealth and defending the country. An aborted "fetus" will never produce anything or join the army.

A rare abortion is not a drama. Many abortions - in the US we aborted 50 million "fetuses" - create unsustainable demographic distortions. You do it in Poland and you will not recognize your own country very soon.

Brate Vesko why you doing this? Don't you see in what dubiosis is Poland and people there. Rome producing quite enough chaos in them they surely don't need Third Rome. No, they don't need that stereo. Man, some people there have mentality of Saudis.


We speak of controled situation, not of chaos. Controled rights on abortion. Plus more investments in education. And plus to increse rights of fathers and of man.

Very intereseting thinking, dobri brate.

Against other invading men. That is why we need to introduce the universal global rule of women - they will abolish all wars and conflicts. But you are against such an idea - didn`t you use to claim that the propensity for conflict is a natural and desired trait in males?


When male supremacists understand at last that they have to assist their women in daily duties, especially child care, the number of abortions will fall significantly. That has been proved by research - caring fathers encourage their wives/partners to have more kids. Simple.

You've obviously never spent time around women in a work environment... (or paid much attention to real female national leaders).

Women are human beings with the range of virtues and flaws as men (the distribution differs a bit but the same material is there).

the First step - don't lie, even to yourself, it was the court and its ruling is consistent regardless of left or right. (at least in that case)


What differences does it make? If you are unable to justify on a moral/ethical ground your position. It makes you an idiot that doesn't have morals but only a set of prejudices and axioms.


No moral/ethical stance. Ideology is all yours. As I have said inconsistent set of prejudices and dogmas with a hefty doze of slogans - that is an ideological stance.


lol! Women need to defend themselves against their own children, I guess they see their kids as something straight from the movie 'Alien". Are you for real?


You should read it instead. You wouldn't make a mistake and reply to it as you just did.

You can encourage all you want but if she says no, there will be no little pawian.
As Dirk wrote so well on the subject, women want careers, not babies. That task white women delegated to the foreign hordes.


I wish you would stop responding to me like I am a retard.

That is not true.

So no abortions whatsoever even if the mother's life is in danger?

Get a grip, The court which is under rightard control. Its chair person is said to be " a social discovery of Jarosław Kaczyński" - they used to eat dinners together.


Yes, exactly. Why? Because they want to be independent of their idiotic partners who play tough male supremacists but are utter losers in real life situations.

No, because being with kids all day long is a mind-numbing, stultifying, and IQ-depleting experience.

You see you have asked a question. I will pretend it wasn't a rhetorical one. A Happy day for you as you might learn something/.

There is not a clear cut choice an abortion or mother die. In reality it means that any treatment would be deadly to a child.

In 99,9% cases the choice is between treatment for a woman and dead kid or let her die eventually just to save a kid.

In all those 99,9% cases and also in 0,1% cases where an abortion would be recommended to save mothers life the choice of course belongs to her, a woman, mother.

By all means, There is no inconsistency here. That is just quite obvious.
I just despair about the state of mind of all those people who have that genuine need to ask about it. Are you people mental or you are so deep in the rabbit hole of your own lost soul that you don't even know anything anymore?


Well that the way it rolls, one there is more left leaning people other time there is more right leaning people. What is important is the fact that regardless of their differences they seem to agree on that ruling. As i said the ruling is consistent. It means it is not U-turn, it means it doesn't go against previous rulings.

You just seems to be lost and do not know how that stuff works.
Face facts and reality and stop stumping your feet and cry like a toddler. It is not only boring but it is also dumb.

Yes, very good. And now you will see a consistent move by not only feminists but also ordinary women to abolish that old compromise and gain full right to abortion.

Will you praise their consistency too? If you are consistent in your beliefs, then you should.


We shall read those posts in 5, 10 years` time and see how it all develops. :):):)

He knows. He just pretends he doesn't to keep the show going.


There we go. Tell us what that "full right to abortion" is. Now, it's time to reveal the endpoint.

Win an election, change the constitution and ruling might be different. A long way to go.

Feminist are just fringe nutters in Poland with almost no support.
Some normal women just believed that lie about the ruling that it means no abortions' at all and there wont be any prenatal medical examinations. Hence they were demonstrating but that over now. They pouched themslefses out and that it.

JK has been doing it to the left for years and it works.
Few feminists are just yelling some crazy **** not a normal person want to have anything to do with them, vulgar, noisy and stupid. All ten of them will overturn gov and put PiS members in jail. Good luck.

@Ironside
Not a sexist not a commie. I just call out stupidity where it exists. PiS does not have a strangle hold on stupidity in Poland, clearly it is an equal opportunity infection.

Ironside
And you draw that conclusion from what?

It's his opinion Lenka it doesn't make it viable or true. Don't bother arguing. It's only Iron.

Do you care to dazzle us with a well thought and consistent argument? No? Why don't you go back to your sniping snide remarks then? :)

Chinese says woman are too cruel for war. So maybe you are right, if aware of their own battle frenzy they would be perfect for war prevention.

They are correct when you wonder what kind of person would not shudder at the thought of almost-there abortions - a procedure that includes breaking into the child's brain, cutting him onto smaller pieces, and sucking said pieces out with a vacuum cleaner. This is why the kill-them-before-they-can-cry mob never wants to see THAT medical procedure. To their credit, this form of barbarism that would make Mengele blush was banned by MEN.

I don't argue with people that I don't know who have already made up their minds . It would be a waste if energy. Besides I am sure you are not interested in what I think.

The main problem with you is that no matter what consistent argument we use, you reject all and demand new ones. I already told you about it.

https://polishforums.com/news/poland-years-assessment-pros-cons-84812/17/#msg1756333