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Polish-Russian war? Drones entering Polish airspace.


Torq  21 | 1765
12 hrs ago   #61
a very large and skillful military, very good training and the tragic history of Polad and the rich history of its army

... not to mention still quite a few trained reservists (especially in AA defence ;)).

not least the vodka at 9am

Setka z rana jak śmietana :D

You shouldn't worry too much.

Do I sound like I'm worried? Saint Virgin Mary has us in her protection always. Relax, Jonno.
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 12337
11 hrs ago   #62
Something good may come out of this attack yet...it showed clearly NATO's weak points concerning drones!

Our thinktanks are already smoking with new ideas how to rebuild our border defenses....different weapon systems (F-35 are not helping) and new tactics (from the ground)...learning from Ukraine is a key...

Hopefully we get our **** together soon!
Paulina  19 | 4761
10 hrs ago   #63
So this is why I got an SMS with a drone alert yesterday - three drones were found also in my region :(((:

echodnia.eu/swietokrzyskie/rosyjskie-drony-nad-polska-trzy-w-regionie-jest-alert-rcb-dla-swietokrzyskiego-wojewoda-zwolal-sztab-relacja-na-biezaco/ar/c1p2-27954275

kielce.tvp.pl/88835838/drony-spadly-w-wielu-miejscach-polski-jeden-zniszczyl-budynek-inny-wyladowal-90-kilometrow-od-kielc-zdjecia

General Kukuła (Chief of the Defence Staff) confirms that Belarus warned us before the drones entered our airspace. So, it looks like they might have been taken over electronically and redirected towards Poland by someone who has such capability.

Here's an informative, calm and balanced video by Tomasz Rożek, a scientist and publicist, concerning those drones:

"What kind of drones flew into Poland?:"



He's actually saying that it can't be ruled out completely that the drones flying in wasn't intentional (so that would explain why Belarus warned Poland about them). It also is likely though that RuSSia was testing Polish and NATO defences. He said that according to experts that he's following it is very unlikely that those drones were sent by Ukraine, because Ukraine doesn't produce those drones and even if they decided to "fake manufacture" them it would be very risky considering how closely supervised the skies are in this conflict and how politically volatile it would be if it turned out they were sent by Ukraine.

He didn't mention the possibility of those drones being "taken over" by Ukrainians. Did any other experts discuss it? How is it done and how likely it is that around 20 drones would be hacked at the same time, including those flying in from the territory of Belarus? Have there been cases of Ukrainian army actually taking control of RuSSian drones and flying them somewhere else? 🤔

Btw, the first response from RuSSia regarding those drones was such:

wiadomosci.onet.pl/swiat/rosyjskie-drony-nad-polska-jest-pierwsza-reakcja-kremla/n19zjyf

RuSSian Ministry of Defence just said that "attacking Poland wasn't in their plans" and that the drones that they used for attacking Ukraine have only a range of 700 km. But even if that was their range such drones can still reach central Poland, so... lol 🙄

It's good that these drones flew in because it turned out that Poland does not have effective anti-drone defense.

Yup, true... Let us treat it as a lesson for the future.
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 12337
10 hrs ago   #64
It also is likely though that RuSSia was testing Polish and NATO defences.

That!
Torq  21 | 1765
10 hrs ago   #65
Ukraine doesn't produce those drones and even if they decided to "fake manufacture" them it would be very risky considering how closely supervised the skies are in this conflict and how politically volatile it would be if it turned out they were sent by Ukraine

Nobody says Ukraine produced or "fake manufactured" these drones, but they might have hacked them, taken over control and redirected them towards Poland. Such action would be nearly impossible to prove, so not much risk for Ukrainians and a lot to gain.

He didn't mention the possibility of those drones being "taken over" by Ukrainians.

Nobody mentions it officially for fear of being called a ruska onuca etc. but there is such possibility and there were instances of both sides - Russians and Ukrainians - taking over the other side's drones.

However, taking into account that Zapad '25 is beginning soon and Putin feels strong support from China, he might well have ordered such provocation. Maybe to test the NATO response, maybe to scare us (lol). Russians sometimes act illogically. I'd say it's 65-35 chances between Putin f*cking around and Ukraine trying dirty tricks. So much more likely it was Russia.

The reason that it's happening is because the West wasn't decisive enough in 2022. I blame nuclear weapons. In the good old days, rotten, corrupt and weak countries who tried to f*ck around too much, very quickly found out. Nuclear weapons allow decomposing, stinking bodies of certain countries to be kept on life support. Disgusting.

It's against nature. It's against honour. It's against natural selection.

drones that they used for attacking Ukraine have only a range of 700 km

This is of course bullsh*t - some of the drones have much higher range and even the Gerberas were equipped with extra fuel tanks to increase their range.
Paulina  19 | 4761
10 hrs ago   #66
Btw, big thanks to our allies for support, especially to the Dutch pilots, because it was mainly the Dutch F-35 that shot down the drones! 🙏 🇱🇺 ❤️

Nobody says Ukraine produced or "fake manufactured" these drones

"Nobody" is a bold statement lol I've seen people making all kinds of claims already.

there were instances of both sides - Russians and Ukrainians - taking over the other side's drones.

Any links?
I'm curious about the technical aspect of it, how it's done and what is possible and what isn't in these types of operations. 🤔

Russians sometimes act illogically.

It may be not illogical by the standards of someone like Putin. Remember how he brought his dog to the meeting with Merkel even though it was common knowledge she's afraid of dogs?

This is of course bullsh*t

Well, yeah, that's the problem - RuSSians lie like they breathe...
Torq  21 | 1765
10 hrs ago   #67
especially to the Dutch pilots

The shopkeepers can actually fly and shoot? Well, well, well... Fair play, to Latający Holendrzy. :)

I've seen people

Who is saying Ukraine "fake manufactured" those drones? Just curious because it takes a special kind of idiot to believe that.

Any links?

Sure...

businessinsider.com/department-13-mesmer-drones-2017-1?IR=T

311institute.com/new-us-military-intercept-tech-lets-operators-take-control-of-enemy-drones/

yahoo.com/news/military-tech-hacks-takes-control-234956714.html

... the technology has been available for roughly a decade now (the second article is from 2017).

Remember how he brought his dog to the meeting with Merkel even though it was common knowledge she's afraid of dogs?

Yes, but he's certainly not retarded enough to believe that 19 unarmed drones would intimidate Poland. It was more about testing NATO response.
Mr Grunwald  34 | 2245
9 hrs ago   #68
The shopkeepers can actually fly and shoot?

And butcher too, how do you explain them Liberating themselves from the Spanish Empire? Not to mention the slaughter of German soldiers invading the Netherlands in 1940.

I recall it was mentioned that the battle for Arnhem was a massacre.
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 12337
9 hrs ago   #69
because it was mainly the Dutch F-35 that shot down the drones!

....that also showed one big hole in our defense.

....F-35s against drones "do not make sense"

The F-35 fighter pilots attacked the drones with AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles. The problem: Firing a missile costs more than 400,000 euros - for a drone that costs just a few thousand euros.

A senior NATO officer told BILD: "In the long run, it makes no military sense to use the F-35 against drones." Therefore, according to BILD information, the alliance is examining various options to counter Russian provocations....

bild.de/politik/ausland-und-internationales/polen-vorfall-400-000-euro-fuer-eine-abgeschossene-billig-drohne-68c1d4d19f4fa552b0d73d90

If attacked with massive waves of drones this way of defense becomes quickly useless!
Bobko  28 | 2679
9 hrs ago   #70
... the technology has been available for roughly a decade now (the second article is from 2017).

In 2011, Iran spoofed an RQ-170 Sentinel drone into landing in Iranian territory. Until that incident, the drone was unknown, and represented the pinnacle of American stealth and drone engineering. Its capture gave Iran a huge boost in the development of its indigenous drone industry.

So if Iran could do it in 2011, then Ukraine can certainly do it in 2025.

I'm curious about the technical aspect of it, how it's done and what is possible and what isn't in these types of operations

1) Easiest - exploit the command link. Most small drones used in this war, rely on radio links for operator control. If you identify the frequency and protocol used, then break or bypass the encryption - you can inject your own commands.

This is super easy to do with the consumer grade drones used, from companies like DJI - because they use standard and lightly protected links. That's why tens of thousands of these drones are hacked monthly on the frontlines.

Both the Russians and Ukrainians upgrade these drones to encrypted frequency hopping control channels, and this helps, but they are still hackable.

In any case, this does not apply to this recent case in Poland.

2) Harder - GPS spoofing. Larger drones, like the one used in Poland, don't just rely on stick controls, but have autopilots keyed to GPS/GLONASS. By spoofing GPS signals, you can make the drone think it's somewhere else. Instead of realizing it's in Poland, you can make it think it's still making its way westwards toward Lvov.

If you combine spoofing with a loss of data link (by jamming the control channels), the drone may switch into a fail safe mode where it will be even easier to fool.

3) The hardest - This would be some more Israel-level business, involving hacking into Russia's actual ground infrastructure. It could mean inserting malware into the maintenance or mission planning software. Hacking into ground control software. Maybe even exploiting a poorly secured satellite uplink.

In true Israeli fashion - they could have maybe inserted agents at the factory level, who implemented back doors in the software. This seems a bit fantastical, however.

-//-

Finally - it could be as banal as a Ukrainian double agent, quietly sabotaging missions by inserting malicious code. No need to over complicate something, when it just as easily could have been done through some good old fashioned human sneakery.
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 12337
9 hrs ago   #71
In true Israeli fashion -

...they are good, maybe the best...but no supermen! (No matter what the antisemites say:)
Bobko  28 | 2679
9 hrs ago   #72
they are good, maybe the best...but no supermen

Maybe the Ukrainians borrowed a lesson out of their Hizbollah pager operation book...

... or maybe this really was done intentionally by Russia.

Perhaps... it was effective, based on the reactions of everybody in this thread, who is writing "oh gosh, our air defenses really do seem quite weak!".

Maybe Putin's cunning plan, was to make Europeans so worried about their patchy air defenses, that they decide to withhold further shipments to Ukraine and instead arm themselves.
Torq  21 | 1765
9 hrs ago   #73
Putin's cunning plan

If so, then my opinion of Putin has just dropped significantly.

After the provocation there are voices in the EU to send more aid to Ukraine, and what's the point of helping to strenghten the air defence of NATO East Flank which is Putin's obvious next target?

Testing Polish reaction and NATO response is the most commonsensical explanation.
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 12337
8 hrs ago   #74
Maybe Putin's cunning plan,

....you know, I wondered that myself!

To show the many holes in NATO defenses regarding modern warfare and get the experts perking up, showing the urgency of changes and investments to the high up deciders...well, then this attack was a big own goal!

But....not all in Putins circle are the smartest of their bunch....maybe they just are that stupid?

Or it was meant more as a psychological threat, hoping to make more people cower in fear...helping the pro-Putin-white-flag-waving politicians in the western capitals gaining support?
mafketis  43 | 11632
8 hrs ago   #75
mayb they are that stupid?

putin himself is a deeply stupid and shallow.... person.

invading Ukraine was the stupidest decision by the leader of a large country since.... when?

the only people who support(ed) it are either evil or stupid... .there is no other option.
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 12337
8 hrs ago   #76
putin himself is a deeply stupid and shallow.... person.

....but not a good way to access a possible threat! Underestimating and hence dismissing the danger would be so easy...
Torq  21 | 1765
8 hrs ago   #77
The best calm and balanced way to deal with such violations of airspace would be sending accidental unarmed drones to Królewiec and Belarus, and giving Ukraine 100 drones and 1000 Starlinks every time it happens.

But then they would really be tempted to send those drones themselves! xD
PolAmKrakow  3 | 979
7 hrs ago   #78
If this is a test of who people will react, something has to be done in response. No talking.
jon357  76 | 24894
7 hrs ago   #79
invading Ukraine was the stupidest decision by the leader of a large country since.... when?

1939.

The best calm and balanced way to deal with

We have to be much cleverer than the other side and doubtless such scenarios will have been gamed many times by those whose job it is to do it
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 12337
7 hrs ago   #80
1939.

!

...I thought the same but decided not to post that....oh WHY?
Velund  1 | 496
7 hrs ago   #81
because Ukraine doesn't produce those drones

Ukraine have lots of Gerbera drones, that landed or crashed on ukrainian territory after their gas tank is empty. Dirt cheap Gerbera accompany Gerans to increase chances of much more expensive strike drones to reach their target.

As you can see on yesterday's photos, drones that wasn't shot just planed and landed in the fields, almost intact. It is not a big problem to repair/rebuild a couple of dozens, maybe replace or reprogram flight controllers, refuel and launch them again...

At the same time, all you can get from Geran is a small pieces, that remains after warhead explosion.
jon357  76 | 24894
7 hrs ago   #82
More feeble orc attempts to obfuscate.

Nobody believes you.
Torq  21 | 1765
6 hrs ago   #83
just planed and landed in the fields, almost intact

Yes, that's curious - if they ran out of fuel shouldn't they crash? It's as if someone landed them exactly where they were supposed to land.

More feeble orc attempts to obfuscate.

Let's read and analyze everything, from both sides. Surely that's what's being done "by those whose job it is to do it", so let's imitate those wisemen. :)
Ironside  53 | 13601
6 hrs ago   #84
Maybe Putin's cunning plan was to make Europeans so worried a

Maybe it was meant to be a lesson to the coalition of the Willy, that their plan to support Ukraine with air support could be easily nipped in the bud by the Russian drones.

Explanation -the Wily coalition would have to use the infrastructure of Poland and Romania to be efficient, even though Poland hasn't joined its ranks.

Once again, half-baked bravado and some murky interest of our westerly friends brought nothing but trouble to Poland.
AntV  4 | 779
5 hrs ago   #85
I'd say it's 65-35 chances between Putin f*cking around and Ukraine trying dirty tricks.

I'm about the same but other way around.

I have about 1% trust in Putin, and exponentially less trust in Zelensky. Z has spent considerable effort in trying to get NATO/West directly involved, from what I can tell. Glad Polish leadership is showing cool heads. Although, it sounds like Paulina is ready to go full GI Jane.
Torq  21 | 1765
5 hrs ago   #86
it sounds like Paulina is ready to go full GI Jane

No wonder. She's from Kielce, the city of pocket knives. ;)
jon357  76 | 24894
5 hrs ago   #87
Let's read and analyse everything, from both sides

Given that one side compulsively lie, it's not a difficult decision.
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 12337
4 hrs ago   #88
There is hope....we still have "it"!

There's a drone alert in Poland - and in London, a German company is receiving a growing number of inquiries for a new air defense system! The DSEI UK arms fair in London - THE industry meeting place, and the ultimate weapons show. Also present: the German arms giant Rheinmetall.

The company declined to comment on business deals or inquiries. But BILD knows: After the attack by almost 20 Russian drones over Poland, of which only three or four were intercepted, there is nervousness. In Poland, too.....

archive.is/20250911132958/bild.de/politik/inland/russen-drohnen-ueber-polen-jetzt-erkundigen-sich-alle-nach-dieser-deutschen-waffe-68c28cc1e94fcb47b9cd4a3e#selection-2239.0-2247.104

....Poland immediately inquired

And: As observed at the trade fair, Poland contacted Rheinmetall immediately after the drone attack, requesting its Skyranger system. The first systems are now being delivered to Ukraine, where the predecessor air defense systems are already in use.

EU and NATO countries - including Romania and Hungary - have already placed orders. Germany also placed a large order - and desperately needed it: After all, the air defense system was disbanded in 2010 - one reason why Germany was able to provide Ukraine with a massive supply of the Gepard anti-aircraft vehicle. The Gepard is considered extremely successful in defending against Russian drones in Ukraine...

Can you believe how STUPID and complacent we have been???

...Drone completion much cheaper

Now, Skyranger. It's considered a relatively inexpensive solution for defending larger areas against drones and other air attacks. The ammunition is fired from cannons - although programmable, unlike expensive systems, it's not self-guided - and therefore cheaper.

rheinmetall.com/Rheinmetall%20Group/Systeme%20und%20Produkte/Flugabwehrsysteme/Mobile%20Flugabwehr/27973/image-thumb__27973__screen/Rheinmetall-Mobile-air-defence-skyranger-family.75c6f2a5.webp?1714380362


  • RheinmetallSkyrange.jpg
Torq  21 | 1765
4 hrs ago   #89
@Bratwurst Boy

Great news, BB! Poland is also not idle in this difficult time. We have just purchased 1,000,000 of these...

zakaz

... they will be placed on the entire length of our eastern border! ;)
Novichok  8 | 10297
4 hrs ago   #90
Did anybody call Washington?


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