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Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates


Torq 32 | 2,999
19 Feb 2020 #151
He has a point there Torq.

It depends what you mean; smaller parties have to be to some extent flexible, otherwise they end up like Marek Jurek's PR. Besides, tylko krowa nie zmienia poglądów, as they saying goes. :)
Ziemowit 13 | 3,902
19 Feb 2020 #152
someone somewhere will call you a Soviet

You should inscribe this sentence into your crest, if you have any. You know, the monarch of the UK has the "Dieu et mon droit" motto, so you might make your proud "someone somewhere will call you a Soviet" motto even more clearly visible to the whole world.

t's a marathon, not a sprint, but I'm sensing that things are much closer than Duda would like them to be

He may be in a big trouble now, indeed. Notice how Broniław Komorowski being the front runner in the previous election ... almost suddenly, just as if of nowhere, had lost the presidential election in 2015 to Andrzej Duda.

PiS seems to be increasingly lost in their presidential campaign. They have just started blaming PO for the ever worsening conditions in health services, completely forgetting that over the last 5 years they've been in a position to change something for the better, but in fact things have worsened even more. Thus, people no longer tend to buy such hilarious attacks on PO. Inflation has become visible to everyone now, so the effect of the 500+ programme has been substantially diminished (the amount is now roughly worth about 350 ZŁ). On the other hand, you have this icreasingly aggresive propaganda on public TV which begins to annoy more and more people and among them even the less ardent PiS supporters
delphiandomine 83 | 18,112
19 Feb 2020 #153
He may be in a big trouble now, indeed.

It doesn't bode well if he's losing by decisive margins in some of the more populous provinces. At a comparable point, Komorowski had a 25-30% lead, which shows how important a well run campaign is.

I think we'll see some knee jerk reactions from PiS with welfare, and it wouldn't surprise me if 500+ becomes 750+ or similar.

PiS seems to be increasingly lost in their presidential campaign.

It is very, very strange. There are murmurings that part of this is related to the ongoing Ziobro-Morawiecki conflict, but either way, you have to wonder why PiS have started a campaign without any real slogans or platform beyond "vote for Duda".
Lenka 3 | 1,831
19 Feb 2020 #154
It depends what you mean; smaller parties have to be to some extent flexible,

Yes but PSL was always too mild with no vision always the best coalition partner because they never really stood for anything.

Now I'm reading miners are planning a strike in Warsaw. Huge one apparently. They want 12% pay increase and want the government to stop companies from buying Russian coal AND to confiscate the one they already have...While quite interesting in itself I wonder what impact it will have on the campaign. As many commentators said- putting so much emphasis on Duda being PiS candidate will work against him during every scandal and argument involving PiS
Torq 32 | 2,999
19 Feb 2020 #155
Yes but PSL was always too mild

Yes, that's the problem with Polish society - we love extremes. If a party is not radical, one way or another, they will always be described as "too mild". PSL always stood for Polish people, culture, folk traditions (Rota is their anthem for a reason). If you want to look for a spineless, vulgar party of power, devoid of any vision or ideals - look at PO.

Duda being PiS candidate will work against him

Definitely. He will lose in the second round to any candidate apart from Kidawa-Błońska (the negative electorate of PO is too large).
Lenka 3 | 1,831
19 Feb 2020 #156
Yes, that's the problem with Polish society - we love extremes

I'm not talking about extremism but having some (ANY) vision and values worth fighting for. PSL was alwasy mostly 'flaki z olejem'. That's why it's possible PSL will get the president, whose role it is to be that kind of balance between political power but I don't think they will ever become a major player.

While I'm no fan of Kidawa-Blońska I think you are letting your emotions get in the way. For now clearly Bosak is the weakest and Biedroń may have problems. Kidawa-Błońska clearly has less going against her than those two. Different thing is what she will do with that potential during campaign.

The big plus for Duda is his daughter- clearly smart and ambitious. But I don't think she wants to/ can get too involved.
Torq 32 | 2,999
19 Feb 2020 #157
KB's chances of getting into the second round are certainly higher than either Bosak's or Biedroń's, but mark my words - if it's Duda-KB in the 2nd round, PiS will have their president for another term of office.

Remember you heard it from me first. :)
Lenka 3 | 1,831
19 Feb 2020 #158
Possible but there is no certanity they wouldn't get it with other candidates either. So it will be empty speculation anyway
OP pawian 168 | 11,014
19 Feb 2020 #159
It's amazing how Ironside has no problem with actual Communists,

Coz he is a true one, too? :):) Son of the regiment, sort of. See what I mean:

Don't you know that certain values or in that case anti-values can be taught/transferred to the next generation?

Ironik, darling, that`s the notion Soviets kept to while dispensing "justice" to the enemies of people. When Stalin ran mass purges in 1930s, he also ordered his henchmen to arrest and execute or send to Gulag family members of the accused.

Now you gladly follow this tradition - isn`t it wonderful? hahaha

PS. Who said it last year? - delph or maf - you can take Iron out of PRL but you can`t take PRL out of Iron.

Ha!
delphiandomine 83 | 18,112
19 Feb 2020 #160
While quite interesting in itself I wonder what impact it will have on the campaign.

It's potentially a lot of lost votes for Duda, as KGHM miners can follow - which would be very, very bad news for PiS.

Different thing is what she will do with that potential during campaign.

I think she's doing well so far to be approachable - and by not being afraid to go into PiS heartlands to campaign.

One thing that seems clear: Duda is not liked by young voters. It can be a disaster for him, as young Bosak voters won't vote for him, while the young Biedroń voters will vote for Kidawa-Błońska.

The TVP bill is waiting for him as well - and dithering won't help his cause.
mafketis 23 | 8,107
19 Feb 2020 #162
Maybe there exist a similar saying in English

the US version is:

You can take the boy out of the country, but you can't take the country out of the boy.

For 'country' you can substitute lots of things.....
Ironside 49 | 10,171
20 Feb 2020 #163
but I really don't.

Well rather that for a boy form the heartland of the post-communist establishment you could vote on the people that came from a political tradition of seeing value in Poland as an independent country. Not as a butt boy of the EU's power/s.

It's amazing how Ironside has no problem with actual Communists

If you say so. Do you have some examples handy or will we remind in a realm of vague insinuations,

older Polish political tradition.

Do you mean that tradition of treason and boot licking? some traditions are better off forgotten.

So what is communist in him?

I never claimed that he is a communist. He is a stooge that pretend to be someone. He just one of those people who wants to live off well being in politicks without much of hassle. Govern a power into hands somebody like him is dangerous. He just go with the flow. It is OK for an individual as a choice but not for someone who will be in the center of policy making for a whole country.

hahaha

Your mentality seem to be unstable.

the notion Soviets kept t

No, you poor thing that is an obvious truism. Your notion is a raucously absurd idea you can compare say anything and that actually make sense. Dude are you driving on a highway at times? Well according to your madness you are a Hitler worshiper as he loved highways and build them a lot.
OP pawian 168 | 11,014
20 Feb 2020 #164
If you say so. Do you have some examples handy or will we remind in a realm of vague insinuations,

Here you are, darling. Last year you vehemently defended Piotrowicz, once a communist prosecutor who oppressed the democratic opposition, today a prominent figure in PiS.
jon357 63 | 15,027
20 Feb 2020 #166
K-K is one of the more credible figures on the political scene right now.
Lenka 3 | 1,831
20 Feb 2020 #167
It seems the government realised that miners on the streets would be a nightmare right now. They will get 6% pay increase.
Torq 32 | 2,999
20 Feb 2020 #168
That's right. Those nasty pickaxes, dynamite, sirens, road blocks etc. - very bad publicity. Nurses, teachers, doctors and judges don't have all this heavy equipment, so their strikes weren't as successful.
OP pawian 168 | 11,014
20 Feb 2020 #169
K-K is one of the more credible figures on the political scene right now.

Yes, but you know what PiS nebolshevik propagandists will do with him if he gets to the next stage? They will go over and over his clapping after the antiChurch speech of certain liberal journalist a few months ago. If that doesn`t help, they will accuse him of taking bribes (from students at Medical University) just like they did with KO`s Grodzki in Senate.

How can it affect viewers, I wonder?
delphiandomine 83 | 18,112
20 Feb 2020 #170
Duda got another hostile reception today in Łowicz, and a 65 year old man has been charged with "insulting the President" after he held up a banner that called Duda a fool.

But what matters more is what happened next: He turned up in Turek, but 50 minutes late. He also turned up somewhere that PiS has between 50-60% support, which means that he's repeating the Komorowski mistake of turning up in places where he's already well supported.

That's not all. Yet another film is now circulating on social media, showing how Duda is travelling around - with a cavalcade of cars, including an ambulance, and that other traffic is forced to stop. They also crossed a railway crossing without stopping.

Kidawa-Błońska is loudly demanding that Duda vetoes the TVP bill, and it seems like signing the bill now will be his death warrant.
Ironside 49 | 10,171
21 Feb 2020 #171
signing the bill now will be his death warrant.

lol! How many times you have been wrong in your predictions? Many.
Spike31 2 | 1,504
21 Feb 2020 #172
Duda got another hostile reception today in Łowicz

If there's something that Poles don't like in politics the most it is an uncontrollable public verbal aggression of politicians and groups which support them. It is not a sign of strenght of opposition but of weakness.

I'm certain of victory of A. Duda for 95%. I reserve 5% for an occasion in which Duda would punch a cheerful toddler in front of the TVN cameras :-)
Lenka 3 | 1,831
21 Feb 2020 #173
If there's something that Poles don't like in politics the most it is an uncontrollable public verbal aggression of politicians and groups which support them

You have a point here. If they overdo it it will work against them. As usual. People won't dig into what is the matter, they will side with whomever they perceive as victim.

But it does seem that PiS is loosing it and have some internal problems. We will see.

Btw Spike- what are you making of Bosak's non existence at the moment?
mafketis 23 | 8,107
21 Feb 2020 #174
Personally I have mixed feelings.... on the one hand I'm very glad he's not infecting the public with his.... presence on the other the more votes they can suck away from Duda the better....

I'll also say that at this stage I'm in favor of double K....
delphiandomine 83 | 18,112
21 Feb 2020 #175
If there's something that Poles don't like in politics the most it is an uncontrollable public verbal aggression of politicians and groups which support them.

Yet again, you're repeating what PiS are trying to claim. What's actually happening now is a repeat of what PiS did to Komorowski, and by charging a protester for "insulting" Duda, it makes him look weak and insecure. It doesn't help that Duda is driving around the country in large convoys, as it makes him look even more out of touch.

No-one will believe that Duda is a victim, not least because he's not a sympathetic figure. If he was an elder statesman who was dignified - yes. But he's not - he's a partisan President who has done plenty to divide people.

If they overdo it it will work against them.

It really depends. There's now evidence that Duda is unwelcome in opposition heartlands, and these are places where Duda needs votes. If he now starts avoiding places because PiS are afraid of a hostile reaction, or if he knows that he's not able to deal with them, it's already a massive win for the opposition.

I think the trick now is to deploy this weapon sparingly, but randomly. A few more arrests for "insulting the President" won't hurt as well.
mafketis 23 | 8,107
21 Feb 2020 #176
Especially quiet dignified people being arrested.... or older people, old people vote....
Ziemowit 13 | 3,902
21 Feb 2020 #177
ou have a point here. If they overdo it [uncontrollable public verbal aggression], it will work against them

But holding up a banner saying that Duda is a fool lies within the standard democratic actions.

65 year old man has been charged with "insulting the President" after he held up a banner that called Duda a fool.

Duda showed up as a candidate and not as Mister President at that meeting.

I'll also say that at this stage I'm in favor of double K....

He begins to stand out in this election and won't be surprised if he ... wins in the second round.
delphiandomine 83 | 18,112
21 Feb 2020 #178
I cannot make sense of what Duda is actually doing in this campaign. Now he's apparently been saying "yes, prices are going up, but it's only temporary".

Then there's the strange words of his chief of staff, which are being interpreted as being an attack on freedom of speech.

He begins to stand out in this election

If he can get through to farmers, then things will be very interesting...
Lenka 3 | 1,831
21 Feb 2020 #179
Ok Torq- time for first celebration !!!
Kosiniak-Kamysz is the first candidate to give the voting commission the required support signatures.
It took them only 10 days and they managed to get 250 thousands signatures. Of course some will be invalid but they have plenty to spare. I must say I am pretty impressed. And they didn't even need the help of faithful taking signatures after mass :)
delphiandomine 83 | 18,112
21 Feb 2020 #180
This is exactly my point: Duda only had to beat Komorowski. Now he has to deal with Kidawa-Błońska hugging everyone, Kosiniak-Kamysz motivating the traditional PSL electorate and Biedroń/Bosak being heavily supported by young people.

If Kosiniak-Kamysz wins among the rural middle classes, Duda is in serious trouble.


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