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Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates


Lenka 3 | 1,959
1 Jun 2020 #961
social moderates are going to get behind Konfederacja's

Hard for me to believe that. For now Bosak plays it smarts and avoids controversy. I read an article with him the other day and he cut social questions very short and focused on less questionable things. His true colours were coming out when asked about abortion for example or left wing people (apparently I'm a bad person because I'm lwft wing...) I don't understand why other candidates don't frill him more about it.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
1 Jun 2020 #962
Konfedercja also takes voters from the other parties.

Barely. The polls are showing that Konfederacja are gaining at the expense of PiS, not other parties. They might pick up some voters from what remains of K'15, but then anyone jumping would have already jumped. The idea of PO voters moving away from PO to Konfederacja is amusing though - if anything, they're going to the PSL or Lewica.

I don't understand why other candidates don't frill him more about it.

I think it's political strategy. If someone abandons PiS for Konfederacja, they're by no means certain to vote for Duda in the 2nd round. So, better to leave him alone and let him chip away at Duda.

Bosak is doing well by sticking to economic/real life issues and downplaying the social issues, but that only lasts as long as there's a form of detente between him and other candidates. As soon as he poses a threat to the duopoly, he'll be crushed.
Spike31 3 | 1,636
2 Jun 2020 #963
So social moderates are going to get behind Konfederacja's

Konfederacja will take a chunk of voters who will never vote for PiS but are also dissapointed with POKO and are not radically leftist to vote for SLD/Wiosna. They will have to fight over it and share it with PSL

For now Bosak plays it smarts and avoids controversy

K. Bosak always plays it smart because he is a smart guy. That said, I've read/watched many interviews with him and he never bailed out on difficult questions and always made it clear where Konfederacja stands on hot button issues like LGBT indoctrination, enforced multikulti agenda, abortion, Catholicism, national identity etc.
AntV 2 | 192
2 Jun 2020 #964
As soon as he poses a threat to the duopoly, he'll be crushed.

How's that? I don't speak Polish, but my wife does and she tells me this guy is articulate, courageous, and very smart. Speaks to the Polish soul.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 433
2 Jun 2020 #965
@cms neuf
The idea of state stores was wildly successful in the past wasn't it? (sarcasm intended) This is just another attempt to "buy" votes of rural voters. This also tells me they feel it all slipping away and are grasping at straws.

@delphiandomine
While I agree the recent polls posted seem like BS, this is looking more and more like the Trump/Clinton election. Clinton was for sure going to win until she didn't because people were fed up with the status quo. PiS = status quo
amiga500 - | 136
2 Jun 2020 #966
Really? Trashkowski says it will be stopped if he gets elected. Funny how any project that helps Poland wean itself of dependence of Russia is opposed by PO.. I wonder why.. hence why you have anti polish russia boosters like delph calling it a white elephant.
Crow 139 | 8,602
2 Jun 2020 #967
After all, have in mind that during PiS and Duda, Visegrad allowed to Serbia use of its air space for import of most heavy Russia`s armament no matter all NATO complaints. Be it trickery or not, it telling us that Duda or at least PiS aren`t stupid. Some people in Poland`s state apparatus understand necessity Serbia to be strong considering development in Europe and world. Its old truth. Strong Serbia, strong Poland.
mafketis 23 | 8,397
2 Jun 2020 #968
Funny how any project that helps Poland

How does it help Poland if the Polish people living there hate it and are opposed to it?
amiga500 - | 136
2 Jun 2020 #969
national interest and security. Don't be so deliberately obtuse.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
2 Jun 2020 #970
Another poll, and I think this one is more credible. The source isn't one known for bias, too.

1st round:

Duda: 41.2%
Trzaskowski: 27%
Hołownia: 12%
Kosiniak-Kamysz: 7%
Bosak: 6.6%
Biedroń: 2.2%
Undecided: 4%

2nd round:

Duda: 44.5%
Trzaskowski: 44.3%
Don't know: 6.7%
Won't vote: 4.5%

Duda: 43.4%
Hołownia: 43.1%
Don't know: 3.5%
Won't vote: 10%

Duda: 45.3%
Kosiniak-Kamysz: 45.3%
Don't know: 2.9%
Won't vote: 6.5%

Duda: 46.1%
Biedroń: 40.9%
Don't know: 3.3%
Won't vote: 9.7%

Duda: 46.3%
Bosak: 30.7%
Don't know: 3.7%
Won't vote: 19.3%
Crow 139 | 8,602
2 Jun 2020 #971
Good. Good.

As things becoming ugly in Europe and entire world, let`s face it, we all want Duda and PiS to lead Poland. They aren`t perfect but they made few wise and promising moves.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 433
2 Jun 2020 #972
After some time on PF now, I really find it funny when trolls pop up who have no relation to the country simply to promote PiS or Russian propaganda depending on the news cycle.

@amiga500
There is zero security interest in this canal. It serves no purpose other than to fund more social welfare construction works employment. The residents don't want it, and the money could have been better spent on other projects or people in Poland.

The shear volume of money spent by PiS on social welfare programs and buying votes is shocking. From the billions given to TVP to 500 plus for every cow on a farm, the list goes on and on. The Crisis Shield money that never made it to small business? I wonder where that went. The story about how a woman sold masks to the government for a huge profit after she bought them publicly in Warsaw shows exactly how financially inept this administration is.

Maybe another raise in ZUS payments should be the PiS platform? Robbing Peter to pay Paul. When all this debt comes due, how will it be paid for? Someone needs to begin answering that question.
Crow 139 | 8,602
2 Jun 2020 #973
trolls pop up who have no relation to the country simply to promote PiS or Russian propaganda

Why did you said that?

What trolls, what promotion of PiS, what Russian propaganda?

Few decisions of Duda and PiS had effects on my country. Great positive effects. In truth, its not all clear to me, I don`t hide it but, if I am decent man, I must underline facts.

And, please, escape finally from the shadow of Russia. You have other problems.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 433
2 Jun 2020 #974
@Crow
amiga500 clearly a PiS troll, and others are clearly Russian trolls.

While Duda and PiS may be good for your country they have crushed the economy in Poland, and have put it in debt needlessly in order to buy votes. There is no escaping the financial devastation already beginning. Shouldn't the Government of Poland be more concerned about its citizens than its agenda or the benefits it offers other countries?
amiga500 - | 136
2 Jun 2020 #975
If I am a Pis troll you are a PO troll. What debt?, the budget was in surplus before the pandemic. Zero security interest?, just a few posts above you said the project was good and as soon as it is pointed out PO support ending it like a Pavlovian response in a dog u change your tune. Why should we ask russia's permision whenver we want to get our ship in poland. Social welfare is shocking? I know you Yanks are happy to have a significant number of your population living in abject poverty , without access to healthcare and proper government support and think that is appropriate for Poland. News flash buddy, Poles don't accept your limited government Reagenesque BS and structural inequality. Anyway that is one of the many reasons your sh*thole country is burning to the ground.
Lenka 3 | 1,959
2 Jun 2020 #976
Social welfare

500+ wasn't supposed to be a welfare program. It was supposed to increase birth rate and failed.
amiga500 - | 136
2 Jun 2020 #977
WRONG. From the start it was always envisaged that also it would help those families on the poverty line or the working class. and for the millions of families that can take buy extra clothes, take the children on a vacation or buy a computer for the first time, it has been a life saver Hence PiS popularity, yet the heartless anti polish neo-liberals on this forum see this as a disaster, waste of money and giving free stuff to stupid people. I'm sure as a woman with maternal instincts you can see these sort of views are immoral.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 433
2 Jun 2020 #978
@amiga500
LMAO I live in Poland now thanks. Clearly you cant tell the difference between sarcasm and real compliments. I never complemented the canal, its a waste of time and money.

Yanks and abject poverty? So young people having 4 children and not working at all and simply living off 500 plus is good? Proper healthcare? Poland? Been to a hospital lately? Try to get something done in Poland without private medical insurance lately? Yes, I didn't think so.

I am a free thinker. I didn't support Trump in the beginning, but I support how he is forcing the economy to re-open. Better to let some people die of the virus, than to let everyone starve to death from unemployment. The US is burning and rightfully so. Some places should burn. I have no sympathy for people who don't address the obvious issues in society. The people doing the burning are largely just animals black or white who are looking for a reason to really show who they are.

The United States is a democracy in trouble. In serious trouble. The Democracy of Poland is also in trouble. Personal agenda's in both countries place everything at risk. The LGBTQ, and the other alphabet soup "causes" need to not be politicized. That everyone wants them to be an issue is what creates the problem.

I support common sense. Regardless of party letters or name. Common sense says that Poland under PiS has become less of a democracy and more of a dictatorship. Common sense says PiS has zero financial acumen. Common sense says PiS has not provided a single answer as to how they plan to save the country from a Depression like the one when the Soviets left. Thats whats happening, whats the PiS plan? Whats the vision? More judges being fired? Maybe more days in the week where people cant go shopping? That has proven to be an absolutely brilliant economic impactor.
mafketis 23 | 8,397
2 Jun 2020 #979
It was supposed to increase birth rate and failed

Turning into a handouts for votes scheme along the way...

If I am a Pis troll

You are.

Yanks

An offensive term. Don't use that when you're speaking with Americans. I don't know any who like it.
amiga500 - | 136
2 Jun 2020 #980
Better to let some people die of the virus, than to let everyone starve to death from unemployment.

As I said You PolAms don't understand how Goverment should work. In australia we we have a 100 percent job subsidy scheme and doubled our unemployment benefits for six months. And thats from a conservative goverment. No one starves to death. There are no protests against restrictions. The goverment is gradually bringing thing back to normal following medical advice because of the security goverment welfare provides. The debt? The interest rate on international money markets is less than inflation. There won't be a problem to pay it back over many years and the same applies to Poland too.
cms neuf - | 1,589
2 Jun 2020 #981
No - the aim was to encourage the birth rate and it is available to millionaires kids too.

I agree that it has had many positive effects. I'm happy to keep it but we shouldn't be promising more handouts

It hasn't helped the birth rate however - the one thing that will help was the Czechs closing the border a few months ago
amiga500 - | 136
2 Jun 2020 #982
I'm happy to keep it but we shouldn't be promising more handouts

Progress.. You sound like a PolAm as well. Only that culture uses the term 'handouts' UK and Aus use 'benefits'. Why not? because we can't afford it? The world has gone back to Keynesian stimulus. We should be doing what spain just did.

fastcompany.com/90511093/spain-creates-a-universal-minimum-income-targeted-at-2-3-million-people
ft.com/content/0b6a5d25-e078-4dfc-b314-f659b566317e
Will also massively boost consumption and the economy.
cms neuf - | 1,589
2 Jun 2020 #983
I'm a Polish citizen and will be voting in this election. I'm also a taxpayer and holder of Polish govt debt so I am precisely the kind of guy whose money will be handed out.

To provide stimulus you either need to tax or borrow - genuine benefits are healthcare, Functioning legal system, a good education system and good infrastructure. They are all conceptually different from handouts

I have no idea where the Spanish think they will get this money from but if they want to make promises they can go ahead.

If all that was required to stimulate your economy walls and outs then people would have discovered that many years ago and everyone would do it. Unfortunately you need to make things that other people want to buy.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,071
2 Jun 2020 #984
Duda: 44.5%; Trzaskowski: 44.3%

This is what seemed incredible only several weeks ago. But then, let's remind ourselves the high horse off which former president Bronisław Komorowski fell
PolAmKrakow 1 | 433
2 Jun 2020 #985
@amiga500
Only Poland did absolutely nothing for the citizens in this crisis. Nothing. Small business got nothing. That's why there are protests. I live here, I see it. I don't read about it or watch it on TV. Poland is not Australia or Canada who took great care of its citizens. Business operations have closed, to never come back.

People I know are selling the things they own for roughly 20% of their value because Poland was tied to consumerism, and the government did nothing to protect the consumer. Produce is going sky high in costs. Meat prices are rising. Inflation combined with unemployment brings what?

This is no small barrow some money from international banks problem. This is not a problem you can tax your way out of when people don't have money to spend and they aren't earning money to be taxed. This is a problem of ignoring the absolute truths that are right in front of people. PiS economic policy is the same democratic tax and spend policy that has undermined the United States. They can not tax enough to cover the spending, and now, look at the USA. A country divided in so many ways it is in a democratic crisis like it hasn't faced since the civil war.

But hey, Duda is easier to spell Trzaskowski, he does have that going for him. :-)
mafketis 23 | 8,397
2 Jun 2020 #986
Only that culture uses the term 'handouts' UK and Aus use 'benefits'

UK benefits = US welfare (payments) or welfare program

handouts refers to welfare that has no rational basis... it's just the government giving money to people whose hand... are out....
amiga500 - | 136
2 Jun 2020 #987
They are all conceptually different from handouts

Depends on the return of investment. If you provide welfare to people who previously had no purchasing capacity, most of the money would flow back into the economy. A whole new class of consumers who were previously below the poverty line. That Polands GDP growth have been surprisingly high since 500+ is no coincidence.

as for neolib mafketis inane comments, he is proof of spikes theory that PO voters can vote for Konfederats, as they get hardons about small government and taking benefits from the poor. But also demonstrates that we can't trust PO not to slash the social and health spending as there are many people like mafketis in the party.Cheating the goverment out of tax, using the goverment built highways and complaining about handouts to other people.
jon357 63 | 15,214
2 Jun 2020 #988
no rational basis

Keeping poor children fed is a very rational basis.
mafketis 23 | 8,397
2 Jun 2020 #989
Which why food aid to at risk children is not a handout.... not all welfare payments are handouts by any means and some government programs (like aid to banks that get in trouble or weapons sales) certainly are handouts...

I suspect the canal boondoggle is mostly made up of handouts to PiS affiliated businesses...
PolAmKrakow 1 | 433
2 Jun 2020 #990
@amiga500
You think 500 plus is a GDP contribution? Do you actually understand that 500 plus is a liability and not an asset? A liability that is paid for by tax payers. A liability that even the wealthy take advantage of.

Cheating the government out of tax? Using the government built highways? Don't you mean paying taxes that fund 500 plus? Don't you mean paying tolls on roads as you use them? Don't you mean the EU funded highways? Get a grip on how you characterize people.

@jon357
Also keeping those who dont need 500 plus for their children in new Converse tennis shoes monthly.

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