Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia

To lose one engine is bad luck.
To lose two engines, is poor maintenance.
To lose three engines is plain f8ckwittery.

Yeah, sth is seriously wrong there. There is a level of risk that you just don't go to and they went there. Playing tree slalom with wide wings is suicidal, esp at 80m. I still believe they were being read faulty readings from ground control. The Russian ATC didn't want to discuss it when asked. Closedness tends to evoke a certain reaction.

It seems the Poles , well mr Tusk anyway . has rejected the Russian report into the Smolensk crash....

I guess the only thing that would be accepted is for the Russians to admit that they loaded all these people on to one plane , made it take off late , somehow created bad weather , and induced the pilot to fly way below a safe height...

Of course the crash could still have been avoided if they had not supplied a Russian aircraft that had been sabotaged...!

It seems that you have difficulty accepting Tusk's opinion on the Russian report of the Smolensk crash. Why is that? He's not part of Kaczynski's political party.

It was pilot error , its pretty obvious , and i suppose thats what the Russian report says...

Here at work my Polish colleagues do not give a ** about this PIS-Smolensk obsession. Instead when the next PIS moron comes on air, explaining he does not know how Gosiewski died (being on a plane crashing, probably having been shot down by PO flying saucers), they yawn, roll their eyes and joke it could have been a train accident on his private IC station.

Main topic in the office these days: 1. The weather 2. Price of Christmas trees this year
I think the majority of the Polish people think like that. Except the Polska-B Radio Marija part of course.
PIS could be very well able to dig up Cold Lech his bones from Wawel just to make headlines in the news.. Excellent idea by the way. They could be sent back to Warsaw, and not disturb the Old Marshal anymore.

There is that crappy flight control thread too. Not actually pursued, rather like sidetracked by the Russian side. What I heard was first that the Polish pilot didn't know Russian numerals, then that some people are impossible to find in the immeasurable vastness of Russia under Putin and so on.

But Tusk is the one disagreeing with the Russian report on the Smolensk crash. Is Tusk from the PIS party?

So - are you now submitting to the authority of the Prime Minister when it comes to this investigation? Good. It's nice to see that you actually recognise the authority of this country's representatives. Now, why have you spent the last 8 months trying to argue against their authority, only to accept it now?

As I said all along - the Poles will do the right thing.

Look at airline name, and everything will be clear.

It is Caucasus... Imagine that there is one well paid and responsible job position and two candidates - one competent and one relative of some local "authority"... Try to imagine who will get this job.

And, please, do not ask why we (russians) consider serious health problems while traveling there as a double disaster. ;) Good chances that doctor will also be "son-of-nephew-of-granduncle-of-cousin" of some local "boss".

Have they discovered yet what caused three engines to fail on the Tu 154 involved in this latest crash....?

Last news I seen was around Dec 17. Nothing official yet. They still working on recorders - some critical parts of voice recording was quite noisy and required processing. No intermediate results will be published until public report is sanctioned by official investigators.

Earlier there was rumors about fuel system malfunction or contaminated fuel. But three (if my memory serves me correctly) other planes, fueled from same tank, had no problems.

Its pretty certain that three engines did not suffer mechanical failure all at the same time , so it has to be a lack of fuel due to contamination or freezing...or unbelievably somebody forgot to fill it up before take off...!

I'm Russian as well, I was in Russia at the time of the plane crash and this is absolutely true. You as well as anyone else know 1. the KGB does not exist anymore. We have the ФСБ (FSB) now but that does not matter. Poland and Russia have had problems in the past but they are all put behind us now. Its still apart of both of our countries history, but as far as i'm concernd Russia and Poland are friends...Or at least on friendly terms... So i can see no reason why we would want to kill the Polish president. It wasn't our fault...

So lets not have any tention between our people. More than there already is because some people are still dwelling on the past...

Sincerely

Dmitri

see far past is not so clear (case of Katyń - Russia did not give all material connected to Katyń if don't want to do it now say HEN but you have to give us ALL information) I wouldn't worry about president if anyone mess with plain crash it was Tusk and his band you could only cooperate with them.

Despite who or whatever was the reason (or reasons) for this crash, I think Poles and millions of people of Polish ancestry around the world, appreciated very much the sincere outpouring of sympathy from the Russian PEOPLE for Poland, when Poland was at its lowest moment this past April 10.

I agree in general that the PEOPLE of Poland and Russia should try to be friends even if the GOVERNMENTS of Poland and Russia are not perfect and there is criticism of them.

As a Polish American, I was raised to be proud of my Slavic ancestry and my parents generally only had good things to say about fellow Slavs like the Russians, Ukrainians, etc.

Although I have questions at times for the Russian government, I don't forget what the Polish Pope said about the Russians. The Pope called the Russians "his Slavic brothers".

Yeah... Slavs is major force anyway. If they united, they is geopolitical force. If they separated -- they are workforce. Cheap workforce. ;)

LOL

You may be right.

Slavs don't have to agree with everything each other Slav says, but if we can agree on at least half of the things, we can be a powerful force.

But if we don't try to at least stick together somewhat, then yes, maybe we deserve to be somebody's cheap work force LOL

:(

The latest revelation from the presidents brother is that he says that while he recognised his brothers body in Moscow , he did not recognise the body he saw in Poland , and is convinced not all the body parts were his brothers....

Is this guy for real...? why has he waited until now to say this , after the burial...?

Is he just afraid its not been in the news for an hour or two..?

The man is obsessed , and needs to see a specialist....

The whole thing is turning into a farce...!

ding! ding! ding! We have a winner!!!!

Seriously, I'd like to make him an offer: Have the body exhumed and if DNA tests indicate it's his brother then he pays for it.

Several members of government and the oppositiong agreed on, that the body buried at the Wawel castle was the president's body. Hausband of the president's daughter said the same thing - he actually added that the body looked different because of natural processes which occur after death.

Considering the condition of the First lady and her identification by things like her nail varnish, I'm amazed that the president bore any resemblance to himself when he was alive.

Apparently he was quite identifiable, according to that lawyer who is causing all the trouble at the minute. It did strike me as odd that the First Lady was almost unidentifiable, but Lech was - I guess plane crashes do funny things to bodies.

But come on Jarek, leave him alone. He doesn't deserve to be dug up and pawed at for political purposes. He's in Wawel, people have accepted it and moved on - there's just no need to use his dead body for twisted political purposes.

Some did, I'd take a shovel anyday.

Do they have any influence over the economy in Poland?

Some of them did, but in a non-governmental capacity.

But the President himself and his team have no influence - it's a ceremonial role.

Its kinda related to the topic of the Smolensk crash...

An aircraft of the same type , a Tupolev tu 154 has just exploded and burst into flames at a Siberian airport whilst waiting to fly to Moscow...

Looks like an engine fire...thankfully most of the people on board got out ok , two died..

Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia.

Enough of this! Would you agree with me?

It'd be nice to find out what happened. MAK released a report, and it's been challenged.

"Poland has recently submitted their comments to the MAK report. The comments (150 pages) allegedly relate to Russian traffic controllers actions (including condition of navigational equipment in Smolensk) as well as the flight status (civil vs. military).

According to the Polish prime minister, the MAK report in the current shape is unacceptable but Poland agrees with many of it's findings. Russians promissed to answer all Polish questions. There is no time limit specified for their reply however."

It still seems to come down to pilot error, but there are quite a few contributing factors that need to be clarified. It's sad that such a tragedy is being used to further politics.

Very sad indeed, but what can we do about it?