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15 years of Poland in the EU - assessment of pros and cons


Dougpol1 27 | 2,690
1 May 2019  #31
Thanks for admitting that leftist economic policies are always hollow promises doomed for failure.

What are you on about?
Communism was total authoritarianism. Not that you know anything about it.
I was here IN Poland, where you have never been, and was involved in the struggle against the communist government, supporting my wife's family, so don't lecture me you turd.

Democracy and the right to collective bargaining have nothing to do with that. What do you do for a living anyway? Last time I heard, little boys in a liberal democracy were not forced to work
Shitonya Brits
1 May 2019  #32
What are you on about?...don't lecture me you turd.

Your adult ASPD is showing again.

It doesn't matter where you claim to have been and what you claim to have done.

The reality is you are just another pedestrian on the street. A mere bystander. A stale, pale, male boomer way past his shelf life.

In short, a navel-gazing nobody.

And the fact that for years you have catalogued on this forum an unhealthy fixation with your dog (especially numerous posts where you admitted to being a serial pest for business owners in Poland who wouldn't accommodate your flea bag mutt) says all that needs to be said about what sort of "family man" you really have been.

the right to collective bargaining

Yawn.

You are so British with your Marxist "class struggle" mumbo jumbo.

Marxism leads to Socialism which leads to Communism.

It doesn't matter which stage the cycle is in.

It always ends in disaster.
Spike31 2 | 877
1 May 2019  #33
We are talking about Poland in or out of the EU which is going to remain an entity for a long time.

That's a mental slave with learned helplessness talk.

No, we can do so much more than that. We can re-shape it - that's what leftist were doing for the last few decades transforming EEC into the EU bastard - or we can destroy it from within and create a new trade agreement on its ashes.

Every institution, especially such an inefficient one as the EU, can be dismantled or shaped into new form. All is needed are favourable social dynamics and capable leaders who will steer social emotions into the right direction. I believe reshaping it is a waste of time so it needs to be abolished and a simple free trade agreement (like EEC) without all that ideological polyp should be created in its place.

No amount of media indoctrination will stop it once people realise that they loosing more, in terms of money, personal freedoms, cultural integrity, than they gain from such an institution.
OP pawian 157 | 8,627
2 May 2019  #34
the EU bastard /leftist tumor /neo-marxist penalnty /ideological polyp

A nice set of expressions. :)

However, it always amused me how rightists and nationalists spit on the EU and at the same time relentlessly suck all benefits from it. If not for that bastard, you would have never got a visa to the United Kingdom to find a better job, like 1 million Poles.

or we can destroy it from within and create a new trade agreement on its ashes.

Sorry, but nationalists can`t create anything positive. Their only creation is animosity and enmity. You would create internment camps for your opponents, that`s all.

I believe reshaping it is a waste of time so it needs to be abolished

That`s a very radical view.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,998
2 May 2019  #35
or we can destroy it from within and create a new trade agreement on its ashes.

How so?

Because as I see it...the EU will only then break apart when all it's member states are taken over by nationalists.

Now I would want to see trade negotiations between a bunch of hostile nationalist governments....then it's back to the old pecking order, the bigger ones trampling down on the smaller ones, who have to take what is being offered. (Not really negotiations between equals).

That's my opinion, you must have a different outlook or you wouldn't follow that path and wish for it to come true. So please, explain it to me...

Where do you see Poland?
Dougpol1 27 | 2,690
2 May 2019  #36
where you claim to have been and what you claim to have done.

Every little bit helped back then - every packet of something unobtainable, every letter, phone call, every tiny action against the machine, every little lack of co-operation, every opportunity to laugh in their faces, at every kind of authority, whether they were police, people's deputies, or rude bureaucrats.

And who are you to say that was a waste of time? You'll be suggesting next that Walesa sitting on the Gdansk shipyard gates was a waste of time?

PolAm basement living clown.
jon357 63 | 14,341
2 May 2019  #37
And who are you to say that was a waste of time?

I remember the TV interview on the Referendum Sunday back in 2003. They interviewed Jan Nowak-JezioraƄski outside church (at a point where people were worryingthat the turnout was low). He said that during all those dark years he could never have dreamed that one day Poland would have this chance. After the interview, there was a rush to the polling stations.

PolAm basement living clown.

This is very clear.
Shitonya Brits
2 May 2019  #38
Every little bit helped

LOL! You rip off a TESCO advertising slogan thinking you are being original and meaningful.

Sad!

suggesting next that Walesa sitting on the Gdansk shipyard gates was a waste of time

Oh, so imagine you are in the same league as Walesa.

Pathetic!
Polonia101111
2 May 2019  #39
I still think Masa should run on a populist platform like Trump.
Spike31 2 | 877
2 May 2019  #40
rightists and nationalists spit on the EU and at the same time relentlessly suck all benefits from it

All I can only think about is what percentage of my tax money was wasted on that insitution. To have all the real benefits all we need is a free trade [EEC] and Schengen agreements. The rest is just a social engineering and political indoctrination. The EU as a political entity was established in 2009 with Lisbon Treaty.

Sorry, but nationalists can`t create anything positive.

Nationalism, in fact, created whole nations and civilisations and their cultures which is a very positive thing.

Nationalism has also helped many cultures like Irish, Polish, Czech, Scottish, to survive foreign invasions and oppressions.
jon357 63 | 14,341
2 May 2019  #41
The rest is just a

What other spending is there?

Nationalism,

An evil concept, the opposite of patriotism.
cms neuf - | 850
2 May 2019  #42
If you are a British taxpayer then you are paying about 320 quid a year.

For that you get the right to work there or any of the other 27 countries, no rip-off bank charges when you send your money home, no rip-off roaming charges, cheap flights to Poland, transfer ability of your social benefits, a common set of standards for whatever industry you work in and probably a new playground and swingset for your relatives in the old country.

Its not a bad deal Spike
Spike31 2 | 877
2 May 2019  #43
As a Polish taxpayer and a British taxpayer alike.

I, like many others, would have a right to work in the UK regardless of the existance of the EU. The decisive point here are skills and work experience not regulations. You see, the system of work delegation has existed long before the creation of the EU and it will remain long after its collapse.

"The EU is a monument to the vanity of [socialist] intellectuals, whether it fails is certain only the total damage is unknown." Margaret Thatcher
cms neuf - | 850
2 May 2019  #44
No you would not have an automatic right before the EU. You would need work permit, invitation, marketable skills and a whole bunch of queueing and extra costs. I have plenty of marketable skills but I couldn't just pitch up in Australia or Canada say and start working with no questions asked - And neither can you

You probably don't remember those times, Which is a challenge for the EU - it needs to market how successful it has been in creating mobility for people like you
jon357 63 | 14,341
2 May 2019  #45
No.you.would.not have an automatic right before EU accession. You would need work permit, invitation, marketable skills and

This is correct. I needed a hell of a lot of paperwork in Poland before EU accession, and pre-2004 I once did some Polish/English interpretation at the port in Dover; plenty of people were turned away when it was clear they were intending to work illegally in the UK. I also have friends who were deported from the UK to Poland due to not having a valid freason to be there.
Spike31 2 | 877
2 May 2019  #46
I have plenty of marketable skills but I couldn't just pitch up in Australia or Canada - And neither can you

I don't know about your skills and work history but I had job offers from outside of the EU and outside of Europe. And even now when I'm not actively seeking for a job I'm still constantly getting a new offers on my email and LinkedIn profile. Most employers offer to take care of all the legal paperwork necessary to start work ASAP.

So all the paperwork can be delegated to the future employers and long as you present value to the company.

It's the same as in case of Ukrainians in Poland: they're not part of the EU yet 1.5 mln. of them work legally in Poland.
Ironside 47 | 9,587
2 May 2019  #47
100 billions euros from EU funds

plus 100 Billions euros of credits taken in western banks in the name of the people, that need to be repaid with interest. So that EU found is a scam and BS from the start. It gives an opportunity for all shady or less shady but nevertheless corrupt deal to make a big money. Those few who are getting rich are screwing all the rest.

I have a question for you. Are those few are paying you? Are you simply a clueless moron?

thousands of infrastructure projects funded by the EU

Sure look above. Paid by the Polish taxpayers twice over. I don't even talk about money Poland need to pay into EU bureaucracy. Not to mention useless and stiffing EU laws - how much they cost Poland just to implement it.

!. Most of the good things could have happened anyway with only an economic treaties. Freedom of travel is a one plus but not much else.

economy in good shape, and still rising- thriving agriculture- Poland's GDP has doubled-- protection against semi dictatorial inclinations of PiS.

Is that rally a good shape?a banana republic is you model?/thriving agriculture what a baloney. It has been a strong feature of Poland regardless of the EU attempts to clamp it down. /GDP - tell you knowing is a BS static, useful only to speculative international capital. / protection my foot, they just want to impose their own version of dictatorial rule heard about introduction in the EU by the EU Chinese like censorship of the internet?

You full of garbage.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,267
2 May 2019  #48
Pros:
Freedom of movement, ability for poles to work in other countries for a higher wage and spend the money back home, getting 100 bil from the EU to build roads, fix sidewalks and new gym equipment

Cons:
Ridiculous EU bureaucracy, importation of degeneracy from western Europe Ie buttseks and gender bending, threats of flooding Poland with untermensch monkeypeople, interference in domestic affairs albeit EU does a lot of barking but can't enforce jack ****...
OP pawian 157 | 8,627
2 May 2019  #49
would have a right to work in the UK regardless of the existance of the EU.

The truth is it was easier to get an American visa than British one before the EU accession. E.g., my cousin had met a British man of Polish descent, after some time they decided to get married and settle in GB. I remember she told us about her long discussions with British consulate workers who were reluctant to issue a visa because they claimed the marriage was a scam!. She had to bring and show them private letters from her fiance.

You would need work permit, invitation, marketable skills and a whole bunch of queueing and extra costs.

Exactly and sometimes even that wasn`t enough. I remember someone told me about a Pole who had got an invitation from a British man. While talking about a visa, a consulate clerk refused to issue it, claiming they were gays and he didn`t support such relationships. :)

Ukrainians in Poland: they're not part of the EU yet 1.5 mln. of them work legally in Poland.

Yes, but Poland and Ukraine have negotiated bilateral government agreements concerning job migrants. Before the EU accession, Poland didn`t have such agreements with the UK.
10iwonka10 - | 398
2 May 2019  #50
You show me the tangible negatives and I can learn.

Tesco - are there any in France, Germany....Carrefour, Kufland, Auchan any in UK?. Clearly West European country keeps their own networks not keen to introduce any foreign. Poland was just flooded with them. Lots of them avoided paying much tax in Poland and transferred profits out. It has changed now - more polish shops more fair tax rules.
OP pawian 157 | 8,627
2 May 2019  #51
plus 100 Billions euros of credits taken in western banks, few who are getting rich are screwing all the rest.

Do you suggest 100 billion euros worth loans were embezzled by corrupt politicians or enterpreners? I haven`t heard about it before. Please, explain.

Paid by the Polish taxpayers twice over.

How come twice over? You need to check your maths. If 100 billion euros is for free and the other 100 is borrowed and must be paid as you say, it is not twice but once. Isn`t it?

Also, you mentioned Poland was a banana republic. I am afraid you are using words which you don`t understand - life in Poland certainly doesn`t resemble that of a banana republic.

Also, you mentioned Polish giant net cost to the EU. But if you read the starting post, you would know that I already deducted that cost from the whole finance, leaving 100 billion in the black for Poland.

Also, you said that Poland`s agriculture was strong before the EU accession. Of course it is BS on your part, it wasn`t strong at all but backward and inefficient.

Also, you suggested that EU is dictatorial because it is planning to censor the Net. Not so fast, my dear, the primary aim of the new law is to protect copyrights, not introduce censorship.

Also, you mentioned the costly introduction of EU laws in Poland. Yes, those bins for rubbish segregation required in the Eu are indeed expensive and you must have 5 of them which means ruin to your budget.

Also, you said that GDB is bullsh.t. Well, I suppose you wouldn`t like to live in a country whose GDP is 5.000 (your favourite banana republic) instead of in Poland with the GDP nearly 30.000 (PPP)

Are you simply a clueless moron?

Please, relax and come back to reason because it is clear you are blinded by nationalist fury which makes your arguments little rubbishy. :)
cms neuf - | 850
2 May 2019  #52
Nonsense - they pay plenty of tax in Poland and certainly way more than Polish retailers. Biedonka, Rossman, Auchan are all in the top 20 taxpayers in Poland.

There is no Tesco in Germany but there is Auchan in Italy, Carrefour in Greece, Spain and Belgium, Netto in Germany, ikea and Lidl everywhere. Supermarkets will expans wherever customers want them.

There are many Polish owned retailers.
10iwonka10 - | 398
2 May 2019  #53
As I said above it has changed now.

newsweek.pl/biznes/zagraniczne-firmy-unikaja-placenia-podatkow-w-polsce-nawet-46-mld-strat/c8we4m9
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,267
2 May 2019  #54
Do you suggest 100 billion euros worth loans were embezzled by corrupt politicians or enterpreners?

Most definitely. EU funded contracts are given to friends/family especially for construction projects.

quote=cms neuf]
There are many Polish owned retailers.[/quote]
Not in Western Europe. But there are tons of w european companies in poland. The German Marriot brigades were already coming to corner the Polish market in the 90s
Rich Mazur 5 | 3,145
2 May 2019  #55
plenty of people were turned away when it was clear they were intending to work illegally in the UK.

Can you imagine THAT! Turned away because they were going to do something illegal. Those bastards Brits!

I also have friends who were deported from the UK to Poland due to not having a valid reason to be there.

Can you imagine THAT! Deported due to not having a valid reason to be there. Those bastards Brits!

How insensitive and so totally inhumane! Reparations!!!
OP pawian 157 | 8,627
2 May 2019  #56
EU funded contracts are given to friends/family especially for construction projects.

I am afraid it is not so simple. :) Tender procedures are required in the EU countries for all projects. Yes, they can be rigged, e.g., through bribing, like it happens in all countries, but family and friends? Do you agree with Ironside that Poland is a banana republic?

Guys, a good way to assess Polish membership is to compare Poland with her non-EU neighbours. E.g., Belarus was close behind Poland in 1990s and the beginning of 2000s - Poland`s GDP was only about 15% higher than Belarus`. Later the distance grew steadily each year and today Poland is better by 60%.
Miloslaw 6 | 1,687
2 May 2019  #57
The truth is it was easier to get an American visa than British one before the EU accession

Where do you get your information from?
Some sort of "Dark Side Wikipedia"?
All bollox....it has always been harder to get into The US than The UK.
Shitonya Brits
2 May 2019  #58
Prime Minister Morawiecki described the current sad state of the EU perfectly:

EU must return to its roots: Polish PM

Morawiecki argued that "the answer to...crises in Brussels has been to centralize power, forget about democracy, transparency and accountability, and disregard national sovereignty."

thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/418118,EU-must-return-to-its-roots-Polish-PM

His words would certainly not have been misplaced had he been describing the PRL regime.

History shows over and over again that leftists should be given no quarter when it comes to having a say in national policies or matters affecting people's education, welfare, well-being and livelihood.
Miloslaw 6 | 1,687
2 May 2019  #59
Could not agree more.
jon357 63 | 14,341
2 May 2019  #60
Turned away because they were going to do something illegal. Those bastards

And now it's perfectly legal. Much better...

Deported due to not having a valid reason to be there. Those bastards

And now people can make the short journey back and forth at will. Much better...


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