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Ups and downs of the democratic government 2023-2027 in Poland


Tacitus 2 | 1,377
14 Dec 2023 #61
Is "Federal Europe" a dead idea?

Hardly. The idea itself is so wonderful that it will persist. And all dreaming aside, it is entirely possible that the EU will be a big winner of Russia's invasion of Ukraine since it reminded people what is at stake, and what the EU can offer. If the USA ends up abandoning Ukraine either now or in 1 year, for which I'd say there is a 50/50 chance, then the EU would become Ukraine's last hope.
jon357 74 | 21,980
14 Dec 2023 #62
wonderful

Federal isn't "wonderful".

The tensions that exist in a non-federal union are already high and rising. Should Marine Marechal be elected in France, as is likely, we are likely to see change. The EU's most established and resilient democracy has already left, and committing to Moldova and Ukraine as candidates will hardly hasten any 'federalisation'.
Tacitus 2 | 1,377
14 Dec 2023 #63
Federal isn't "wonderful"

The vision behind is. Being able to live and work everywhere on the continent, helping and defending each other. Pooling our ressources together and staying at the forefront of human advancement. It is our best and likely only chance to retain Europe's prosperity, influence and peace.

EU's most established and resilient democracy has already left,

And may return, once the Brexiteer generation is gone. Who knows, maybe London will become part of the European family again at the same time as Ukraine.
jon357 74 | 21,980
15 Dec 2023 #64
he vision behind is.

All of that happens already without any sort of 'federalism'.

And may return, once the Brexiteer generation is gone.

That's possible, and I'd probably vote to rejoin (just as I voted to remain) providing there was no suggestion of 'federalism', any sort of loss of sovereignty or anything that would affect relations with other countries.

A more likely option is that we would choose is to have closer links than now without membership. I'd guess though that it would be long after Ukraine joined before anyone would consider rejoining fully; not least because leaving (which some of us were worried bout) has been a success.
Tacitus 2 | 1,377
15 Dec 2023 #65
@jon357

All of that happens already without any sort of 'federalism

It doesnt though. The invasiom of Ukraine has shown how inefficient the current status is. We need greater coherence in our foreign policy so that a wannabe dictator who gets bribed by Mmoscow and Beijing does not paralyze it. And while we might be on the path towards an European army, those steps need to be accelerated. Otherwise we won't be able to defend ourselves. It is eventually all a matter of size. Modern combat systems become more and more expensive. We can see this process already. Smaller countries can barely afford their own air force. Even the great European powers find it difficult to maintain a single aircraft carrier. Many small, if wealthy entities end up dominated by larger, hostile powers. We saw this happen many times in history.

In 20 years, none of the European countries will still qualify as great powers, their place taken by other, much larger countries. That is inevitable. India, Brazil and other countries don't care much for our concerns while we are still relatively wealthy and powerful. One can only guess how they'll behave once the tables fully turn. The response of the parts of the world that will shape the future to the Ukrainian war and Gaza really should put any illusions to rest.

Another indication is the Falkland question. Historically legally (and morally) they are part of the UK. But the anticolonialist view (when directed against Europe) is getting stronger stronger, as are those countries supporting it. In 20 years the Uk on its' own will be a medium size power, trying to defend the Falklands against Argentina that may count on the support of South America, China and other powers, each power being wealthier and more powerful than the UK. I am always surprised that developments like this are ignored by Brexiteers. Than again, their "vision" of "Global Britain" would not work otherwise.

has been a success

Yeah sure. It has been a success in the sense that the UK manged to leave the EU, but otherwise... .
jon357 74 | 21,980
15 Dec 2023 #66
how inefficient the current status is. We need greater coherence

Or perhaps a greater assertion of and respect for sovereignty rather than homogeneity.

the Falkland question

There isn't a 'question' and the Falklands are, at the request of Falklanders, armed to the teeth. You needn't worry your pretty little head about that issue. We don't (and BTW retention of the islands isn't some sort of 'national pride' issue, nor are they a significant source of income; more a responsibility to the residents there and of the other islands.

It has been a success

It has certainly been a success so far. Many of us were worried that it would lead to unemployment, a fall in trade, absence of certain products, a drop in inward investment etc, however in fact unemployment has fallen, trade is growing, the shops are fuller than ever, inward investment is increasing and the pound is strong.

We've still a way to go yet, however there's an incoming Labour government next year and (thanks to no longer being bound by regulations set by other countries) we are likely to nationalise key infrastructure. A couple of railway companies (that were owned by Franco-German companies) have been de-franchised and replaced by more efficient state-owned bodies.
amiga500 4 | 1,536
15 Dec 2023 #67
@jon357
That's the problem with these Euro Federalists, they've run out of African and Asian Countries to colonise, so they want to colonise themselves and centralise power. Wet dreams of another European Empire.
jon357 74 | 21,980
15 Dec 2023 #68
Wet dreams of another European Empire.

Basically it was the Holy Roman Empire first, then Napoleon's tyranny then Hitler's failed attempt. Trying to create a land-based Empire.

They even tried to take the London Stock Exchange because Frankfurt wanted it. Fortunately that failed.

Since Brexit we've been kinder to them than they have to us (citizens of EU countries get 6 month blocks in the UK with decent re-entry rules after, whereas citizens of the UK get 90 days out of 180 with very strict rules). There are a few other examples of us being nicer to them than they to us.

It just goes to show how much they hated a major economy deciding that the move towards a superstate was a bad idea.
Alien 20 | 4,925
15 Dec 2023 #69
Wet dreams

These are the best.
Tacitus 2 | 1,377
15 Dec 2023 #70
respect for sovereignty

Sadly, most of the world only respects sovereignity of countries can defend them. That is what Ukraine was forced to learn. Hence they are willing to sacrifice part of their sovereignity by joining the EU because it will help them defend the rest.

needn't worry your pretty little head

I dont worry, just pointing out what is most likely going to happen. If the UK does not rejoin the EU, they'll likely lose controle over the Falklands this century. You won't have the power projection to defend it on your own 30+ years and there are plenty of countries just waiting for payback time.

It has certainly been a success so far

It made you poorer, and much less influential down the line. What a great success story. Even your crown jewel the London stock exchange is slowly bleeding away. Not just to other European cities, but other parts of the world away.

how much they hated

Again with this Brexit nonsense. Nobody hates you for leaving, at worst we pity you. But you are not going to keep the privileges of staying in the EU after leaving.

Trying to create a land-based Empire

Again, it would be helpful to read up on European history and not the warped Brexiteer bersion. The people who founded the EU did it with the fresh experience of having survived the Nazi Empire and in the hopes that doing so would allow its' member states to not be swallowed up by the Soviet Empire.
jon357 74 | 21,980
15 Dec 2023 #71
Sadly, most of the world only respects sovereignity of countries can defend them

Fortunately we can.

the Falklands this century

We won't. You shouldn't underestimate the firepower currently there or how little effort it took last time. The Falkland Islands are however an irrelevance.

It made you poorer,

It didn't make us poorer at all, and the financial markets in London are fine.

The balance of regulatory and decision-making power remains firmly in the UK capital, say market participants - while trading volumes tell a similar story.
"The City continues to be a top-tier global financial center, with the most competitive pricings and offerings of financial products and services in the world. The liquidity and the pricing here are second to none," Reynolds said, adding that he was "not surprised at all" to see the official figures showing an increase in City exports to the EU.

marketplace.org/2021/09/22/has-brexit-boosted-londons-financial-center/
bestexecution.net/post-brexit-london-still-the-decision-maker-in-european-financial-markets/
bis.org/publ/bisbull65.pdf

to not be swallowed up by the Soviet Empire.

One reason not to be swallowed upon by a Franco-German empire.
Korvinus 2 | 476
20 Dec 2023 #72
LOL, Tusk barely started and a judge of the supreme court is already calling for a resignation of his minister of justice.

twitter.com/k_zaradkiewicz1/status/1736422181985202440

It's ironic that while PiS was in power the opposition was calling for "independent courts" and Tusk managed to pis off Polish supreme court in just 4 days.
OP pawian 222 | 24,343
20 Dec 2023 #73
a judge of the supreme court is already calling for a resignation

Not a judge but a so called judge nominated illegally by PIS President against the rule of law. Huge difference.

to pis off Polish supreme court in just 4 days.

Not the Court but one illegal member of it. Huge difference.
Korvinus 2 | 476
20 Dec 2023 #74
His complaint is valid: Bodnar is trying to influence the way judges make verdicts with a regulation, while Polish constitution (art. 178) clearly states that judges are subjects only to the constitution itself and legal acts, e.g. bills approved by the parliament and signed by the president. The very same people that shouted "rule of law", "free courts" and "con-sti-tu-tion" when PiS was in power are now dismantling the legal system. Bodnar is asking to be prosecuted when Tusk loses power.

KO is no different from PiS, which implemented covid restrictions with regulations of this minister or that minister, which was also a violation of Polish constitution.
OP pawian 222 | 24,343
20 Dec 2023 #75
the constitution itself and legal acts, e.g. bills approved by the parliament and signed by the president

Poland is in the EU, let me remind you. :):):)

Bodnar is asking to be prosecuted

Bs. He knows he is doing it the legal way coz Poland is bound to stick to the EU rule of law. He isn`t crazy.

Don`t worry, everything will be fine. :):)
Korvinus 2 | 476
20 Dec 2023 #76
He knows he is doing

Is that what they tell you at the cell meetings?
OP pawian 222 | 24,343
20 Dec 2023 #77
Yes, and we are waiting for most notorious PiS gangsters to join us soon. The more, the merrier. hahahaha buhahahaha
Korvinus 2 | 476
28 Dec 2023 #78
They deleted the tweet (it also disappeared from HoĊ‚ownia's profile) because it turned out that there were illegal immigrants in the Sejm:

1

2

The cardboard country in practice.
OP pawian 222 | 24,343
28 Dec 2023 #79
They deleted the tweet

Fake.
Korvinus 2 | 476
4 Jan 2024 #80
Fake

brusselssignal.eu/2023/12/polish-parliament-speaker-hosted-illegal-migrants-at-official-christmas-reception/
OP pawian 222 | 24,343
22 Feb 2024 #81
It was clear from the beginning that the so-called ideological issues will be a bone of contention in the new gov created by the coalition of 4 parties. The reason for first tensions is abortion. Tusk`s party and the Left opt for full 12 week abortion while conservatives are reluctant and opt for a referendum etc.

foreignpolicy.com/2024/02/12/poland-abortion-rights-pro-choice-election-coalition-pis-law-ban/

Despite campaign promises, the fight for abortion rights seems far from over.
Alien 20 | 4,925
22 Feb 2024 #82
Despite campaign promises, the fight for abortion rights seems far from over.

It will take some time, but the goal is right. Women's incapacitation will be abolished.
Ironside 53 | 12,413
22 Feb 2024 #83
but the goal is right.

I wonder where planks like you came from. Is that your priority? What a sad man.
OP pawian 222 | 24,343
22 Feb 2024 #84
Is that your priority?

Women`s rights are the priority of all decent males. Women have been trampled on by male chauvinists for thousands of years. Time to put an end to it.
Ironside 53 | 12,413
22 Feb 2024 #85
Women have been trampled on by male chauvinists for thousands of years.

What the hell are you babbling about? Some kind of stupid nonsense nobody cares about, some made-up stories to stir people's emotions and gaslight them with BS.

It is BS and it doesn't solve anything or doesn't help anyone, and so-called decent males are simply immoral or stupid *****.
OP pawian 222 | 24,343
23 Feb 2024 #86
nonsense nobody cares about

This approach of yours is very good coz it directly contributed to your and other rightist buddies` defeat in the latest elections. How? Women told you their big NO and you lost! Ha!!!

So, can I ask you to keep up your discriminatory attitude coz I would love to see your next defeats in the future??? :):):)
Ironside 53 | 12,413
23 Feb 2024 #87
your discriminatory

Brainwashing people and telling them they are victims? That is what vultures do,
OP pawian 222 | 24,343
23 Feb 2024 #88
they are victims

Coz they still are the victims of male chauvinism which decides about women`s bodies.

Women fight for their full rights and that`s what matters. I support their fight and that`s what matters.
Ironside 53 | 12,413
23 Feb 2024 #89
They still are the victims of male chauvinism

Prove it!
---

Women fight f

Really? What women? If only females could vote on THOSE women I doubt they would be in the parliament. Toxic male trash votes them in.
OP pawian 222 | 24,343
23 Feb 2024 #90
Tusk`s party and the Left opt for full 12 week abortion while conservatives are reluctant and opt for a referendum etc.

Conservative parties delay and procrastinate claiming that PIS President will veto the new law anyway so why should they hurry?
They are afraid to openly admit they are against abortion coz the local gov and EU Parliament elections are coming and they don`t want to lose the votes of women who reject discriminatory PiS.


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