Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy.

Thanks, MW. Merry Christmas to you too. I actually celebrate double Christmas: on Dec. 25th and Jan. 7th :) One is never enough.


Thank you, BB, for a dose of cyanide in my morning coffee ;)


Why? According to Crowie, Germans are germanized Slavs, so the slavic can stay :)


Unacceptable. If Germany wants to be a part - it is always welcome, but Russia - not for money, pity, the end of the world, or any other reasons. Just an example: when Germany was being unified in the 19th century Austria -a clearly Germanic nation - was not taken into the union. Russian Federation is the same case. It seems to be mostly Slavic, but it has nothing to do with the spirit of Slavic countries. Since Serbia is not interested in Sarmatia without Russia, I propose Serbia to unite with their brothers into some other Slavic union # 2 (or they might have #1 to avoid the war)

*gives Nathan a beer as consolation*


Ja...but you know Crowie...he is so not our most trustworthy source! ;)


Yeah..they were to bossy...Vienna wanted to have the most say...Berlin thought otherwise and showed them the finger, germanic or not!

Just curious, Nathan. Did Ukraine remain completely independent in Russia's war with the Chechens? To get involved would have been to jeopardise your own security. What did the Ukrainian Parliament say about that war (those wars), if anything?

You see, BB, who better than you might understand the exclusion of Russia from the Slavic Union. Without Russia we would have a NORMAL union of countries with equal, unpretentious say in various matters that might arise. With Russia it is impossible - it would drag everything into a totalitarian, undemocratic and non-progressive towards the good of the member-states. Russia is already a union of republics and it was a head of the Soviet Union of "equal" republics before. What did it bring, but the total destruction? Look at Eastern Germany: whatever you had there in 1989 was 10000 times worse here. So, Russia in the Slavic Union would be like a cancer on a beautiful orchid. And I don't wish it to my country or any other country in the future union.


I don't know what exactly the Ukrainian government said (usually it is full of wh*res), Seanus, but I will definitely find it out. It is a very interesting question. I know that many Ukrainian volunteers and people with past military experience went to Chechnia to help them defend their country's independance.

This to me is eastern Europe. I think the Ukrainian govt would have largely stayed out of it. I don't know when Juszenko (Yushenko) started his tenure but I can see him organising some behind-the-scenes support for Chechens.

Had Poland got involved in that war, that would have represented a major increase in the likelihood of Poles becoming targets. The biggest problem is guilty by association and I keep reiterating that. The leaders stay safe while innocent civilians become embroiled in nonsense. That's the real threat as was seen in the Balkans and elsewhere.

It's not the same Nate...in Germany's case it was the fight between two top dogs about who is going to lead this new unified Germany, Prussia or Austria.

Who else will lead the slavic union if not Moscow? And will all the others agree? What would be the most logical choice which would get the most votes? Will the Ukrainians agree with Warsaw? Will the Poles agree with Kiev?

I don't believe really in a "we all will lead" scenario...there will always be stronger and weaker ones.

BB is right. The seat of their govt is white Slavic and the rest, well, we know how Russia treats 'the rest' :( :( To exclude Russia would be to set the union off on an unstable footing and they'd instantly become a target.

Slavs have to work with more than their hearts. Celts learned that too :)

Why exclude Russia ... but a revolution needs to come from all the Slavic lands to change those who are stubborn.

....kill 'em?

I think especially the Slavs have enough of bloody revolutions!

£ódź, Poland would not accept subjugation to Russia, simple. Then a radical overhaul is needed as many Slavs are stubborn of their own admission.

Neither would I ... we all need to be equal

But Russia as the primus inter pares, right? ;) ;)

Haven't you read Animal Farm, £ódź? Some are more equal than others ;) ;)

Are you advocating a return to communism and agrarian reforms as the hallmark of the Union? ;) ;)

No ... I like some form of a mixed economy with socialism elements there too.


It was a good book.

Sean you really dont want to be optimistic about it yeh? Tell you wife tonight that there is no way Slavs can have a good things to give to the world without being RACIST.

The globalists have plans to mix those elements anyway, £ódź ;) Just don't think that they won't be a threat to any union if you started going against them :)

Oh, optimism is healthy, £ódź. I like to see the glass as half full and not half empty. Look at the thread title, it's about threats within Slav central. nothing external. Some here are still talking of Russia flexing its muscles, even in the face of new-found cooperation. Trust and non-denial need to be worked on ASAP. Try telling that to Poles on the streets and watch their reaction, esp older ones.

I agree, it is not exactly the same. But I don't see that much difference either. There is always fight for power on any political area.


I very much doubt it, but even if (still, it is basically impossible) - what's the problem?


Well, BB, you clearly have no high opinion of Slavic countries besides Germany's beloved Russia. The West knows that as long as Russian Federation is the bully in the region it would be easy to manipulate the whole Eastern Europe to its own benefit. Slavs can come up with some Brussels of their own - let's say - Bratislava - a great center for a Slavic union. In my opinion, any presence of Russia is a sign of no viable competition. The region will remain a dumping site for European left-overs.


Do they agree in the EU all the time? Besides Slavic Union would be more of a confederation than a federation type structure as the EU seems to be. There won't be any "persuasive" pressures from the big boys in case there is a disagreement.


If Iceland agrees with Bulgaria, I don't see why neighboring countries like Ukraine and Poland should be difficult on agreement.


Of course, but this is only when too much is given up to the Union. In the Slavic Union each will have its own choice. Areas of defense, scientific cooperation, medecine might be more on a common solution grounds.


Why? It would be a third player.


We do. But where are the Celts now?
I have to go, but I will be here later, guys.

I just feel that he would have rocked the boat, Nate. He was known to be anti-Russian.

A third player, ROTFL. Russia would soon change that.

The Celts are in Scotland and Ireland, thanks :) (not only) The Irish, being the weaker Celts ;) ;) ;), lost their Tiger but the Scots still have their coveted lion :)

Oh, we are not really under threat either :)

What Ukraine ?

That country to the east of you that is considerably bigger ;)

That country in econmical and political sense is like a black hole!

I hope Germany's friendly footing with Poland isn't just because it needs it for productive economic relations with Russia, and is authentic. Personally i think that Angela Merkel and Guido Westerwelle are sincere in what they do.

youtube.com/watch?v=Y9cOA-nXiWU

I hope and wish all the best to Poland and Germany and their relations, although politics and authenticity is something that doesn't fit my mind easily. I haven't said that Germany needs Poland for its relations with Russian Fed., it is just that BB thinks that Russia is the only leader in the region and the rest of the Slavs need it so much as a leader to properly represent themselves in front of good, old Europe. I disagree with that.

Poland is also, and Ukraine when it unites and finds a single direction will most definitely join that club.

Just like Poland was 20 years ago, and how it's still seen by most Westerners as being some poor backwater with a few pretty towns.

Get off your high horse - Poland isn't much better.

I disagree with that too and that wasn't what I've said.

But for me and many others Russia is the biggest country with the most natural wealth, which makes at an automatical top dog.

Surely that doesn't makes it an automatical leader, especially if you know their history.

Buuut....there are also countries in the neighbourhood who have nothing against Russian leadership, having still strong ties.

My point was that there is no real counterpoint to see inside the slavic world to Russia. It's mostly either pro-russian countries or anti-russian countries but it's more or less all about Russia in the end.

It is the big looming shadow nobody can escape.

So..to use Kissingers famous words..."When I want to call the slavic world, which number should I select?"

I wonder if Sikorski had a paranoid Xmas. Probably did.

His wife 'look, it's the Russians'. Sikorski 'where where?' 'Oh, just on tv'.

His wife is the renowned analyst and writer Ann Applebaum, Seanie...so I doubt that reaction by her very much! ;)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Applebaum

Read her review about "Bloodlands":

nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/nov/11/worst-madness/?pagination=false

By him, I meant :)

What about the Russian oligarch and the free-market economy. Maybe the Russians and the USA are at peace nationally, but maintain a public facade of conflict in order to massage and supervise the Baltics and Poles etc.

The Poles, in vain, are waiting for the post 1989 payback from the American, and for their token support in the war against terrorism but(were duped) they're p1ssing in the wind. The second biggest force in Iraq are the private security companies, so the Polish participation will not, in anyway help provide them with US defense against their historical big bad wolf, the Russians. The conflict in the free-market world is much more subtle and dispersed than the nationalist mind-set can grasp.

well, Poland regained its independence 20 years ago, for few years,but means something in Europe even as a prise, have a cultural identity and all!

Whereas Ukraine have all kind of problems and possibility of becoming Russian province !


Its definitely better ! much.....economy could be better but thats globalization and open borders.
How come your ancestors ended in Scotland? Pry tell me, I sure its interesting story!


I don't care about the guy , I just do not like your assumption that being Pole means being paranoid about Russia !

She also works for NYT which tells volumes about her not in a good way either.