Y Shaped high speed rail line Poland

1. I suggest you start looking at the costs, particularly alternative cost.
2. TGV has been much more scientific and industrial project than transportation project.

In short words, some behave like little children in a toy shop, the grown ups see the bottom line.

I think you should start by looking at what the project would offer Poland. But then again, your type doesn't want "high speed" - you want everyone to have their flat, their crap job in the crap factory and not to consider any notions of actually doing anything with their lives.


Perhaps. But it's tried, tested and thoroughly proven technology and comes without having to pay for development costs.

Poland is somewhat perfect for such high speed lines - most connections between major cities are on the flat (not much hills between Warsaw/Lodz/Poznan/Wroclaw/Krakow) and there are plenty of people willing to pay a lot of money to travel quickly.

Of course, first, you have to get rid of the dinosaurs with their archiac working practices - which is why buying in foreign expertise makes far more sense than the "alternative" of developing a Polish TGV system or sticking with the current system.

Perhaps you should leave the discussions about such systems to people who actually leave their PGR village once in a while.

Very much so.


PKP has been too much of a 'spolka nomenklatura' for too long. Privatisation would make a lot of sense.

You forgot "things were so much better under communism" ;)

From my latest observations :

PKP Intercity is on the right track with the "luxury" offerings - EIC trains and sleeper trains (okay, it's WARS, but schematics) are doing pretty well. They never wanted the TLK trains, and it shows - privatisation makes sense for them, because they'll be able to get rid of those trains without Governmental interference.

Przewozy Regionalne is a disaster. An utter disaster - the provinces are all setting up their own train operators, PR is ridiculously overstaffed (3 conductors for a 4 carriage train is normal - ridiculous) and their whole operation shows exactly what the "PKP mentality" is.

The best solution for Poland is to privatise PKP Intercity, let it run as it wants, sort out PKP PLK's idiotic track access charges (2nd highest in Europe - why?!) and continue with the infrastructure projects. Let Przewozy Regionalne go bankrupt and leave it for the provinces to sort out amongst themselves. However, there should be a very clear prohibition on publicly-owned companies running inter-provincial trains. The situation where two state owned companies are competing is absolutely ridiculous, especially as they're using public funds to pay for this battle!

As for the high speed lines - at the very least, make sure that it's ready to be built. No harm in that - it can come when there's money for it to come.


Oh yes. But he voted Nowa Prawica, not PiS! Honest! HE TOTALLY DID!

my solution for german-Poland trains.

allow the german locomotives to do the whole journey instead of wasting time changing over at the border.

make direct trains travel in a straight line

cost minimal. customer happy. faster. job done.

Would be better for Polish ones to handle most of it. It's just an issue of cost - the locomotives would have to be equipped with German equipment.

As far as I can see, it does serve one purpose - it allows the border guards to check suspicious people out during the stop.

i haven't seen a border guard for months. last time was at wroclaw station, before folks got on the train.

Not much really, for a start vast majority of population wouldn't even have access to it.


LOL ! The same old bullshits, you only forgot to say that I've been dreaming to become an English teacher all my life, to get those excellent money and status English teachers enjoy :)))


You base that on what ? Opinions of two other English teachers ? Harry the expat ? The government (you had supported so much till recently) have been watching It closely and decided It doesn't make sense in Poland before 2030. Vast majority of experts do agree with that... so excuse me but where your "expertises" do come from ? Own research of an English teacher :))) ?

And? It's exactly this communist mentality that holds Poland back.

The line is for those who need access to high speed rail. That means those who are travelling between big cities, not those who live in PGR-hellhole in Polska B.


Nice way to avoid the point.

Still, the fact remains that your opposition is based on the fact that you don't want people to travel. Easier to control them that way, isn't it?


The "experts" will say whatever their political masters tell them to say. You just need to read some of the rubbish about Smolensk to see that ;)

It doesn't make sense because Poland hasn't got the money to pay for it. It's that simple - nothing to do with "sense" or "nonsense" - but everything to do with cash and the fact that HSR costs a lot of money - that they don't have. The existing network needs the money - and you can't build a high speed line if your "lignes classiques" are in a hell of a mess. If they were fine, then high speed rail would be a no-brainer.

Tell you what, Mr village-expert - go away and look at what the TGV did for France. Go on. Then look at what the ICE lines have done for Germany, especially Hamburg-Berlin. While you're at it, you can also look at HSL-Zuid in Holland.

Thankfully, this new minister seems to be far more capable than the last one - and actually seems to be the first one in a long time who seems able to deal with Polish railways.

They'll only do it if Europe pays - and they've already paid billions of pln to upgrade some lines. It seems it's in the interest of some of the PiSowsko-SLDowski mafia to keep death on the roads.

I had to take the sleeper train to Koln when that Volcano erupted, they checked passports when we went over to germany, However it could have been that the train started in Moscow

And spending tens of billions on a project 15% of population would have access to and 0.15% would use frequently is nonsense no matter how you slice it, the same old garbage about "communist mentality", Poland B etc. will not impress anyone here. Even Tri-city, Kraków and Silesian aglomeration (the largest one in Poland) wouldn't have access to it, so much for "Poland B". Taxpayers funding extremly expensive project they won't use is communist mentality, that's the "logic" of a famous expat :))


Which point, some slur about PGRs ?


:)) No words...


Therefore an "expat" teacher knows better :))


LOL ! Everything to do with sense or nonsense, the whole idea of alternative cost or cost-effectiveness analysis in a decision making process is clearly a foreign concept to you, not surprising really :))


Yes, that's what I've been talking about all the time.


This new minister is saying what I've been saying since the whole Y nonsense idea emerged, he's saying your opinion on these matters is nonsense :))

Perhaps they don't use it at the moment because it's so bad. People fly to Gdańsk, Szczeciń, Wrocław from Warsaw or get stuck in traffic jams precisely because the rail link is such a mess.

Anyway, I see packed trains all the time so somebody must find it useful.


He probably doe know better - a fresh point of view and all that.

Except Wrocław the Y line wouldn't really improve anything here.


Fascinating. Please prove it.

I think a few may die of shock if Poland got such a thing. I mean, the PKP Intercity option is pretty good but this proposal looks to be a huge step up.

The New Pendolino with a max speed of 250k/h and the moderately upgraded tracks can't become a truly high speed rail line. But all is looking good since PKP approved the 'Y" line and work will begin starting in 2014.

It's been canceled. Fortunately.

Since when that article confirming it is from a month ago. Those cheap bastards. Got any links proving what you're saying Gregory??

Of course I do. Do I look like an expat or something ??

rynek-kolejowy.pl/29255/Nie_bedzie_KDP_w_Polsce.htm

Eeee te kurwa pedaly jebane. Plans to build it stopped for 20 years. They want Poland to catch up with western Europe when!!?? 2100. Western European countries have had high speed rail since the 1970s. Idiots rule Poland that moron that's kisses everyones a** (Tusk) and that dinosaur Komorowski. BTW sorki Grzesiek ;-)

Maybe pedały but this time they are right.

Most of France didn't have access to the TGV when it was first launched, and now most of the major cities do. What's your point?

Let's face it - you don't like it because your people wouldn't be able to afford it. It's that simple.


A mess and slow. There's absolutely no need for anyone to fly Warsaw-Wroclaw - but when the train takes 5.5 hours, then you start to see why they do.


Connecting Warsaw/Lodz/Poznan/Wroclaw with high speed rail would kill much of the domestic flight market. No bad thing.


Be fair. There's a reason why - the existing infrastructure is falling apart due to worker/trade union incompetence (the sheer incompetence of almost everyone involved is staggering) - and they want to focus on fixing this before spending a massive amount of money on something new. The infrastructure really is crumbling - a journey of 30km that I make regularly takes over 40 minutes in one direction - and this is on a mainline! But with the Y line - everything will be in place, the only thing that will need built will be the physical lines.

And something else to bear in mind - HSR isn't that common in Europe. The goal right now is to get all the lines up to around 125mph, which is where most European countries are at in the West. The UK for instance - that's the top speed.

OK, you are right, let's leave it at that :)))

Ah well, looks like the only popular Y here will be Y-fronts ;)

Poland doesn't have the money for it yet. Like the guys said above if the rest of the rail system wasn't neglected so much during commie and post commie times the money would have been there to be spent on this project. It would have been nice thought :-)

Where Gerries would built a highway, decent express road will be enough, where Frogs would have TGV, Pendolino (in the future something similar designed and made in Poland) will be enough. We shouldn't copy bankrupted losers cathing up to outdated industrial era concepts. We should look beyond 2030, see what's there and get prepared, so in 20 years we will jump straight into top global league skipping whole decades in many areas.

Delphi gets angry because he would like to asap travel to Warsaw at +300km/h, so he can meet there Harry and they can spend the evening convincing each other how super duper upper class expats they are, laughing at "Poland B peasants", who can't afford TGV, to make themselves feel better, I am rather more focused on long-term progress of this country, pouring more concrete into the ground might be needed in some cases but It shouldn't be the main element of the strategy, we should rather focuse on trully informatio era concepts.

Yes but Polish mentality doesn't mean envisioning projects and building technologies today that will still be modern in 20 years. It simply means putting things away and away and so on.. pushing the start date to a later time.

and with that... doubling the cost.

Procrastination is the thief of time. Poland needs practicality at this time, not elaborate schemes. Poland could become poorer quite quickly if forecasts for the EU are borne out to be true.