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"Shale Gas Revolution" will make Poland a Leading Country in Europe!


Adam1974 1 | 6
19 Mar 2011  #1
I'm a geologist from the U.S. who has started traveling back and forth to Poland to help in drilling the first wells to tap into Poland's vast shale gas reserve. After reading about Poland being a 2nd- and 3rd- world country, I was pleasantly surprised after my first trip to Warsaw last month. Specifically, the country and people were great.

Things are surely changing on the geopolitical front and in terms of wealth in the coming years and Poland will no longer rely on Russia for their energy and in fact will be supplying energy to Europe thanks to the trillions of cubic feet of natural gas that is now accessible using new American technology. This will make Poland very important in Europe much as it was in the 17th century!

When I tried to explain to people how things are changing for the better, the people seemed to dismiss it as if optimism is impossible which seems odd to me but perhaps is simply normal and maybe I'll get used to it on my upcoming trips.

Are Polish people at all aware and/or excited about these coming changes to Poland?

-Adam
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
19 Mar 2011  #2
Polish people should be careful of the fracking process. Other than that, it's great having all those mineral rights and getting money.
What are your thoughts on the fracking process, Adam? Do you think Poles should be wary before leasing their lands to energy corporations?
It's great to not rely on other places for energy, but is the fracking process completely safe if there is a fracking boom? Thousands of wells could appear virtually overnight, with all the waste water pits and condensate tanks. It's definitely something to consider.
pammycat - | 16
19 Mar 2011  #3
Are Polish people at all aware and/or excited about these coming changes to Poland?

No

Robert W. Howarth, Cornell University, "Preliminary Assessment of the Greenhouse Gas Emissions from Natural Gas Obtained by Hydraulic Fracturing", 26 January 2011.
eeb.cornell.edu/howarth/GHG%20update%20for%20web%20--%20Jan%202011%20%282%29.pdf

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasland
Bzibzioh
19 Mar 2011  #4
When I tried to explain to people how things are changing for the better, the people seemed to dismiss it as if optimism is impossible which seems odd to me but perhaps is simply normal and maybe I'll get used to it on my upcoming trips.

Well, Poles are pessimists by nature. Pragmatic Poles prefer hard numbers to nice words and promises, they will believe it when they see it.
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
19 Mar 2011  #5
hings are surely changing on the geopolitical front and in terms of wealth in the coming years and Poland will no longer rely on Russia for their energy and in fact will be supplying energy to Europe thanks to the trillions of cubic feet of natural gas that is now accessible using new American technology. This will make Poland very important in Europe much as it was in the 17th century!

Firstly Adam, welcome to the forum. I am glad that you are optimistic about Poland's energy potential, however I have a few questions for you that as an expert in this field you might be able to answer.

What are the environmental consequences in drilling for shale gas, I have heard that they are a few issues in the States regarding drilling. What environmental precautions do you have in place to prevent the land being degraded and the water supply from being polluted?

I understand that some companies are reluctant in disclosing all of the chemicals involved in the process, can you elaborate on that?

I am guessing that drilling in the desert wastes of taxes or Arizona would be somewhat different from the green and pleasant land of Poland, do you guys modify the way you do things in different environments that have greater concentrations of water?

Poland does not have have all that much land going around, and it would be shame to pollute and degrade some of it, I hope you guys have to comply with stringent environmental controls.
Ironside 47 | 9,538
19 Mar 2011  #6
Eh? Promises, promises - have you been sent by your firm interested in exploitation of shale gas ?
I don't like it a one bit!
AdamKadmon 2 | 508
19 Mar 2011  #7
Are Polish people at all aware and/or excited about these coming changes to Poland?

As the bell clinks, so the fool thinks. I hope that they won't find anything.
smurf 39 | 1,982
19 Mar 2011  #8
Watch Gasland, that'll put you off it.......but then again Polish politicians are like lapdogs for yankie business men so time to start takin pics folks coz your beautiful landscape is about to be torn asunder
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
19 Mar 2011  #9
Not depending on Russia is a good thing. I am not exactly pessimistic, but things should be tangible to really start celebrating.
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
19 Mar 2011  #10
As the bell clinks, so the fool thinks. I hope that they won't find anything.

Sadly they've found lots. There is good and bad in this.

The bad is that much of it has to extracted by artificial fracturing, which involved pumping water down. That water comes back up as gunge, very polluted. In a hot country most of it it evaporates away. In Poland it would lie in very nasty pools until something is done with it. This is a simplification - the details are even worse.

The good think is that most of this is 'reserve' gas rather than useable. Meaning it stays down there and looks good on the national balance sheet.

Not depending on Russia is a good thing. I am not exactly pessimistic, but things should be tangible to really start celebrating.

Russia has vast open spaces, land that can easily be poisoned for a few generations. Poland is different.

Watch Gasland, that'll put you off it

Yes. People in any country that is threatened with fracking (including southern England) should watch this.

There's plenty of gas elswehere in Europe that can be got by cleaner and safer means. Better to use that.
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
19 Mar 2011  #11
Poland is different.

Yes it is different, but how come Adam never replied after his first post. Why doesn't he answer the questions put forward to him?

Anyways, all I meant was that a good useful source of energy can never harm. However, if this costs more than what we can bear, then I guess the choice is clear ...
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
19 Mar 2011  #12
how come Adam never replied after his first post

Perhaps he's a press release!
Maaarysia
19 Mar 2011  #13
Watch Gasland

Trailer
youtube.com/watch?v=dZe1AeH0Qz8

I love the scene when water from a tap catches in fire...
OP Adam1974 1 | 6
19 Mar 2011  #14
In Poland like most of Europe, the gas is owned by the government and so all people should benefit from the revenue--provided the government can/will redistribute this wealth? The drilling and fracing process is being done in a way that is environmentally sound. No case of groundwater contamination has ever resulted from these chemicals despite the hundreds of thousands of wells drilled using this process from the 1950's. The chemicals used are generally disclosed and if not can be looked up in 2 minutes. They are composed of the same ingredients as what you find out your sink at home and happily disperse around your house and dump out into your yard. Still, this process takes place at depths that are thousands of meters deep with no chance of migration. I stay concerned more about truck traffic and the transport process than anything. GasLand was a great hollywood movie that is being compared by some to Nazi propaganda as it is simply not true in almost every regard. A scientific education can best be obtained from any of the institutions of higher learning like marcellus.psu.edu

Poland has bright educated people, good environmental laws, and they have a chance to do things right here.
Maaarysia
19 Mar 2011  #15
asLand was a great hollywood movie that is being compared by some to Nazi propaganda as it is simply not true in almost every regard. A scientific education can best be obtained from any of the institutions of higher learning like marcellus.psu.edu

As far as I recognise Polish Forums users, Jonny is a some kind of specialist of oil industry, am I right? So who's right?
OP Adam1974 1 | 6
19 Mar 2011  #16
Jonny has some valid points but just isn't up to date on the responsible environmentally current water reuse and recycling as is being used for shale gas drilling here in Pennsylvania with a very similar temperate climate as Poland. My job is to make sure that this work is done in an environmentally responsible way in Poland.

I assume most people on here are from the U.S. based on the lack of responses from people in Poland. Is there a similar message board with people actually from Poland?
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
19 Mar 2011  #17
Hello Adam1974,

And welcome to the Polish forums.

I thought the Americans bought the rights to Poland's shale gas?

When will drilling commence?
enkidu 7 | 623
19 Mar 2011  #18
I'm a geologist from the U.S. who has started traveling back and forth to Poland to help in drilling the first wells to tap into Poland's vast shale gas reserve.

Shale gas extracting facilities in Europe - ZERO. None. Null.

This is all I have to say about this matter. It's a myth.
And it's been used in the political warfare in Poland for at least three years.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,605
19 Mar 2011  #19
At least not today and not tomorrow:

naturalgasforeurope.com/polish-official-dampens-prospects-early-shale-gas-flows.htm

Polish Official Dampens Prospects of Early Shale Gas Flows

Ongoing investments in shale gas exploration in Poland are likely to bear fruit in 2020 or later, and credible estimates of production levels are still some four years away, according to the deputy environment minister.

"In four years, maybe three, we will know how much shale gas there is in Poland when exploration under already awarded licences is finished," Henryk Jacek Jezierski told Reuters on Tuesday.

"Production is certainly not possible in 2012, rather 2020, if not later," he added.

PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
19 Mar 2011  #20
The drilling and fracing process is being done in a way that is environmentally sound.

In which country? It sure has contaminated ground water.

In Poland like most of Europe, the gas is owned by the government and so all people should benefit from the revenue--provided the government can/will redistribute this wealth?

That's kind of scary. It would be better if the gas was owned by private mineral rights owners with the government strictly regulating its harvesting. That way there is balance and less risk.

GasLand was a great hollywood movie that is being compared by some to Nazi propaganda as it is simply not true in almost every regard

It is true, Adam. What about the settlements and gag orders? Sounds like industry is trying to hide the true nature of fracking. One or two fracks in the middle of nowhere might be sound, but what about thousands upon thousands of them all over the landscape. How do you know that's safe? Would you want to live among thousands of gas wells, in your back yard, 200 feet from your house?
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
19 Mar 2011  #21
Adam

You talking about 'fracking'?...There are a lot of very serious concerns about this particular process as it concerns the enviroment, animal and human life.

There's big money in it for the drillers.
Monia
19 Mar 2011  #22
I wonder why people trust propaganda movies, instead of exploring this issue first.
I have checked some information about it and I am pretty much sure it is a very important and promising source of energy .

Our economy depends on gas so much , it is a main source of heating unlike in other countries where atomic power plants are the main sources of energy . We have only coal, which is not very friendly and that`s it , natural gas ( extracted already in the south of Poland ) does not cover our needs.

I live in Poland and I think form my observations that most people are optimistic and have nothing against shale gas .

I am only scared of all EU regulations which can delay our efforts as we would become an important player on the european energy market.

From a dependant buyer we could become a welthy seller .

Because of the fact that , mostly , know - how information , comes from USA , EU ( most important countries) will fight with us to have their share . I am sure about it as they are starting to mess up already by imposing some stiff and unrealistic regulations , just to make out something for them.

I am just waiting for the moment we will hear from EU this is not our resource or they will impose on us CO2 taxes . Just wait .

We have to remember one more thing : they ( EU countries) were poluting Europe for half a century and when they build nuclear infrastructure , the coal mining industry was not economically profitable any more .

They closed their mines some time ago ( I remember 1985 coal miners riots ,there were even some casualties in UK )and now they blame us for poluting . Did they pay any taxes in the 50-ties , 60-ties, 70-ties . The Ruhr region was the biggest poluter on earth. We were in the coumunist era and we couldn`t do anything to be prosperous country at those times , as the Soviets told us what to do . How could we compete with the West and build our independent energy system . No chances at all . As to buy gas and gasoline we had to sell everything what we wereproducing . So for the Soviets it was very convenient to have a slave and a customer who could not complain .

It was exactly the same situation as it is now with the highway system . They finished building them in the 70-ties , not thinking about natural environment , but now , when we want to catch up with a civilization they tell us how to do it , coz we don`t know , we are the bad people , poluters.

As a consequence , now we are spending bilions to build just few hundreds of kilometers of highways , becuuse we have to build some expensive highway infrastructure or change already made plans with land buyouts coz we have to save marsh frogs which are not existant in EU as they were killed when the were building their infrastructure .

There is no such thing as fair play here .
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
19 Mar 2011  #23
My job is to make sure that this work is done in an environmentally responsible way in Poland.

The bottom line is that it is done in a cost effective way. to maximise the profits of all concerned.

I assume most people on here are from the U.S. based on the lack of responses from people in Poland. Is there a similar message board with people actually from Poland?

Not in my case (or that of most people here). Don't assume anything from people's user names.
Monia
19 Mar 2011  #24
as it concerns the enviroment, animal and human life.

Hi ........ another brainwashed activist ? don`t take it seriously or personaly . Just read above .
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
19 Mar 2011  #25
Our economy depends on gas so much , it is a main source of heating unlike in other countries where atomic power plants are the main sources of energy . We have only coal, which is not very friendly and that`s it , natural gas ( extracted already in the south of Poland ) does not cover our needs.

Okay, fine, we can put all the gas wells in your backyard. Okay with you? Since it's so safe and all.
Monia
19 Mar 2011  #26
Yes , pls I am waiting . I am gonna become a polish sheikh! I promise I will donate all those money to poor and build highways and also I am gonna drop all taxes .
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
19 Mar 2011  #27
At least not today and not tomorrow:

What about the day after tomorrow, Monday?:

Shale gas production in Poland may start much faster than previously announced. It's a surprise, because it is said of the prospect of even two or three years, and until recently it was seven years older.

blog.rp.pl/blog/2011/03/19/danuta-walewska-wielka-lupkowa-obietnica
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
19 Mar 2011  #28
Yes , pls I am waiting . I am gonna become a polish sheikh! I promise I will donate all those money to poor and build highways and also I am gonna drop all taxes .

Yeah right, apply the mores of a vast country with ten million citizens and less than 5% useable land to a much smaller country of 40 million which is a major food producer. Why not chop down some virgin forests while you're at it.

I am gonna drop all taxes

Except of course the future carbon tax...
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
19 Mar 2011  #29
Yes , pls I am waiting . I am gonna become a polish sheikh! I promise I will donate all those money to poor and build highways and also I am gonna drop all taxes .

Don't be surprised at how little you get paid. If you do plan to lease that land, have a back up plan. You'll want to move away, that is, if you can find a place to move to that doesn't have any gas wells on it.
Monia
19 Mar 2011  #30
No , I will fight with those bastards and win , so no taxes ,I solely promise!


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