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"Shale Gas Revolution" will make Poland a Leading Country in Europe!


Cardno85  
20 Mar 2011 /  #61
Very, very true...but what country can afford to replace their plants every couple of years. The WHO said that Japan took every safety effort in their plant, but there is little to nothing you can do against an earthquake of that magnitude.
PennBoy  
20 Mar 2011 /  #62
which U.S companies are interested in extracting the gas?
gilles33  
20 Mar 2011 /  #63
I assume most people on here are from the U.S. based on the lack of responses from people in Poland. Is there a similar message board with people actually from Poland?

Most people here are American and British expats living in Poland or Americans of Polish descent. You won't find any English speaking forum full of Poles.

Well, Poles are pessimists by nature. Pragmatic Poles prefer hard numbers to nice words and promises, they will believe it when they see it.

I think that this comment is a good answer for your question.
grubas  
20 Mar 2011 /  #64
Well, Poles are pessimists by nature. Pragmatic Poles prefer hard numbers to nice words and promises, they will believe it when they see it.

Wrong.Poles are not pessimistic but realistic and they know that even if there is some NG in Poland all they (the Poles ) will get out of it is a polluted enviroment after Americans take NG and Polish crooks (or "politicians) take the money.If Americans are such a good friends as they say then why they won't give us a technology so WE can extract this gas?I say f u c k it,this gas been there for a long time already and nothing will happen if it will stay there few more years until WE will be able to extract it WITHOUT ANY FORAIGN involvement.Americans and other foraigners need to look for NG in their own countries and leave Poland alone.
smurf  
20 Mar 2011 /  #65
will of course consider your severe apology

yea, I'll give you one when you provide some unbiased objective proof, as yet that hasn't been done.

I feel that you should be the one to apologise for comparing Gasland to nazi propaganda, especially considering where you are now, a bit insensitive of you old chap.

So again, I ask for links, this time unbiased ones from people independent of both the movie and the gas industry.
OP Adam1974  
20 Mar 2011 /  #66
He's chief oil and gas geologist, so he's not exactly going to be unbiased, is he?

This is a man that is by his job description and definition is unbiased. He's an experienced government employee who is charged with overseeing this work in an environmentally responsible fashion.

The bottom line is that a person who truly believed in these 'gas-land' claims and also someone who cared about the environment wouldn't spend hours sucking up this very energy typing away on message boards using their computer. Unless people are willing to stop using energy then we have to find it somewhere.

I've lived in an area surrounded by thousands of fraced gas wells the majority of my life and drank the groundwater every day and swam in the creeks and ponds. However, when I travel an hour away the streams are running red with Acid Mine Drainage loaded with heavy metals from the coal mines and I wouldn't think of drinking the water.

If anyone actually cares, come to PA and you can visit active drilling sites (many companies are happy to set up visits) to see for yourself and then make an informed decision.
JonnyM  
20 Mar 2011 /  #67
by his job description and definition is unbiased

A bit like asking a fox to comment on chickens. Far from unbiased. Same as you.

someone who cared about the environment wouldn't spend hours sucking up this very energy

There's plenty of energy, and no need whatsoever to mess around with 'unconventional', dangerous, and harmful methods like shale fracking. Especially when the companies wanting to do it don't even come from the same continent but instead from a country with a very poor record of corporate ethics.

I've lived in an area surrounded by thousands of fraced gas wells the majority of my life and drank the groundwater every day and swam in the creeks and ponds

Somehow that doesn't ring true, especially given the nonsense you've already posted and the bogus posts from som PR department that shows the lengths of subterfuge that some interested parties will go to to conceal the real problems of a fossil fuel source we don't need to exploit.
dudelz  
20 Mar 2011 /  #68
Poland needs to move away from coal and dependence on Russian gas. Things could really take off for Poland if this comes to fruition.
jwojcie  
20 Mar 2011 /  #69
Hm... I have no idea if fracturing carries a risk of polluting environment or not. But what I do know is that if drilling companies will cause damage they will pay. Take as an example Bełchatów and one of the biggest brown coal mining site in Europe. There is a very big hole there which causes water problems in the area. They pay for this damage quite a lot. Kleszczów, the nearest and most affected site is one of the richest municipalities in Poland thanks to that... I'm quite reassured that combination of Polish and EU restriction will be huge pain in the ass for anybody who thinks that it will be drilling here with no supervision...
PlasticPole  
21 Mar 2011 /  #70
If anyone actually cares, come to PA and you can visit active drilling sites (many companies are happy to set up visits) to see for yourself and then make an informed decision.

Nah, we got plenty of them here. Of all the different energies, I'd take coal and nuclear over natural gas. There are plenty of people in West Virginia insisting the mining companies (who are also energy corporations) clean up their act, but the mines are not where I live, and I only have to be concerned with that. Fracking can become pandemic.

Another thing that's annoying is the government and industry clamping down on any information negating the fracking process. Why keep everything so secret? Only recently concerned citizens have been allowed access to basic information, like, what's in the fracking chemicals.

Energy corporations have this deep desire to drill every inch of land they can and they want nothing to stand in their way and they want to do it as cheaply as possible. Folks have a right to be concerned and demand these companies respect the environment and protect the water sheds.

Right now, information is being with held and that's criminal! Plaintiffs in law suits aren't allowed to tell their side of the story after settling. The public has a right to know what happened.
OP Adam1974  
21 Mar 2011 /  #71
Adam1974: I've lived in an area surrounded by thousands of fraced gas wells the majority of my life and drank the groundwater every day and swam in the creeks and ponds
Somehow that doesn't ring true

Again, come to Pennsylvania and I will show you where I grew up and spent most of my life. I've also spent my entire career both protecting and cleaning up the environment working for the US EPA and am interested in doing things the right way or not at all. My email is on my profile to contact but I can't say the same for those that question me on here.

dudelz and jwocie both make valid points from what I have seen from Poland--both regarding some good strict environmental laws and a chance for Poland to really take off as a country--but I haven't spent enough time there to really understand the people yet.
JonnyM  
21 Mar 2011 /  #72
working for the US

So what is your connection with Poland?

You've been strongly advocating shale fracking in Poland which is known to be extremely harmful to the environment (check out the study referred to in post #3), despite the huge environmental cost...

My email is on my profile to contact but I can't say the same for those that question me on here.

My email is here too.
PlasticPole  
21 Mar 2011 /  #73
So what is your connection with Poland?

He is there drilling natural gas wells.
JonnyM  
21 Mar 2011 /  #74
Creating artificial fractures to extract shale gas, to be precise. Using a method known to be damaging. But for whom, and why the sudden spate of posts from him and the mysterious Cladd, who posts only on this topic?
PlasticPole  
21 Mar 2011 /  #75
He hasn't mentioned any companies even though we are all wondering who is he with?

Btw, my state ranks second in the US for natural gas production, so we have a lot of that stuff around here.
JonnyM  
21 Mar 2011 /  #76
we are all wondering who is he with?

Perhaps whoever 'Cladd' was spamming this forum for. Who knows? He does say that his first visit to Poland was last month. And talking about making "Poland really great", and "Poland to really take off as a country", as if there's something wrong with it at the moment.

Looks entirely like a corporate PR job. The people who run a website called naturalgasforeurope.com are a good starting point. Who are they?

In their words: "Natural Gas for Europe was conceptualized by a group of social media, publications and communication specialists." And don't forget the "reduced dependence on Russian sources of energy"!

Or even the people who run the website called shalegasforeurope.com with articles by one 'C_Ladd'. Which seems to be a subsite of the other website. Obviously no relation to 'Cladd'.

Clear as oil shale.
PlasticPole  
21 Mar 2011 /  #77
What Poland needs is it's energy corporations based in Poland to get this shale gas out. That way Poland keeps most of the money. That is how we do it in the state I live and our energy corporations are the wealthiest. Keep the money at home!
JonnyM  
21 Mar 2011 /  #78
Even if it's left down there, as most of it will be, it improves the country's balance sheet. Worth googling 'c ladd shale gas' for a whole host of hits. Or even search a bit further ;-)
Wroclaw Boy  
21 Mar 2011 /  #79
Poland has bright educated people, good environmental laws, and they have a chance to do things right here.

But youre a corporate boy with a profit agenda.

First rule in business "create a desire".
Babinich  
21 Mar 2011 /  #80
But youre a corporate boy with a profit agenda.

You'd rather a statist who feeds on ignorance of their citizenry?

Fracking will only be made sound and safe by innovation from the private, not public sector.

Overall capitalism frees people from poverty; statism ties people to dependency.
Wroclaw Boy  
21 Mar 2011 /  #81
You'd rather a statist who feeds on ignorance of their citizenry?

Id rather an intermediate without agenda to conduct specific surveys of the whole fracking process, safety measures in place, complete public awareness, inform citizens upfront exactly what they are getting themselves into and most importantly the negative aspects.

Fracking will only be made sound and safe by innovation from the private, not public sector.

Just keep using US land for now then.

Overall capitalism frees people from poverty; statism ties people to dependency.

American businesses make money for themselves NOT Poland. Just look at the title of this thread what BS.
David_18  
21 Mar 2011 /  #82
American businesses make money for themselves NOT Poland. Just look at the title of this thread what BS.

I think Poland will earn plenty on the tax revenues. Would it really be a big difference if a polish company build the gas wells instead of an american?
Wroclaw Boy  
21 Mar 2011 /  #83
Would it really be a big difference if a polish company build the gas wells instead of an american?

probably not much in it, in any case how the hell would Poland even get started with such a project, they have no practical research in this area. No the point im making is that an American who works for the company is saying 'it will make Poland a leading European country', he has an agenda.

The more wealth a person has the more ruthless they generally are, Dick Cheney is heavily involved within the shale gas industry, that guy is as crooked as they come. Bypassing laws and all sorts of nasty stuff all in the name of profit and a screw the public approach.
pammycat  
21 Mar 2011 /  #84
Would it really be a big difference if a polish company build the gas wells instead of an american?

Polish stockholders getting the profits not foreign investors, the Warsaw Stock Exchange trading in it not Wall Street, Polish CEO and Board of Directors not foreign ones. A no brainer, kid. And it still aint safe. If Exxon think it is, let 'em frack under Georgetown.
JonnyM  
21 Mar 2011 /  #85
If Exxon think it is

More likely to be ConocoPhillips. They do a lot of 'internet PR'.

Whoever it is, they're certainly trying hard. All these sites and many more with similar names have exactly the same phrases, word for word.

naturalgasforeurope.com
naturalgasforamerica.com
energytomorrow.org
energyandourfuture.org
chinadecisionmakers.com
gas-shales.org
eyeforenergy.com
theenergyexchange.co.uk
sar  
21 Mar 2011 /  #86
Jonny has some valid points but just isn't up to date on the responsible environmentally current water reuse and recycling as is being used for shale gas drilling here in Pennsylvania with a very similar temperate climate as Poland. My job is to make sure that this work is done in an environmentally responsible way in Poland.

Adam, I am also from PA and know the Marcellus shale issues. The drilling companies are covering up as much as possible the detriment to the water supply. The companies have not been up front with landowners or government officials. Why would they hire an ex-governor to lobby the State for lenient environmental protections? If there are any PM participants from Poland, I would have them sound a huge alarm about the detriment of shale gas drilling until water quality is preserved and guaranteed!….and providing water buffalos is not an answer. With natural gas prices at all time lows, there seems to be a very aggressive push to drill before all the facts are known.
OP Adam1974  
22 Mar 2011 /  #87
I have worked as an environmental engineering consultant for the last 15 years since graduating at the top of my class at Penn State, ranked #1 in my chosen field of study, Hydrogeology--but I for sure don't know everything and learn more every day. I do contract work for many of the Exploration and Production companies from the U.S. as well as Poland, France and others. I've worked studying and cleaning up hundreds of the worst and most contaminated EPA superfund sites across the country. The companies making the most money right now in Poland are the Polish and German drilling companies at this point. The Polish E&P companies are learning fast and are starting to drill themselves. I am exactly who I say I am and will meet with anyone who says otherwise.

sar-You should give Range Resources a call at 724-743-6700 and ask for Matt. He will set it up so you can visit a working rig site where you can see what they are doing and you will have a chance to voice your opinions for the good and the bad. Hiring Tom Ridge's firm, the former Homeland Security Director, is an odd choice in my opinion and I always have to question that myself as he's sure done quite well working for a suite of industries since leaving office. He's originally from Erie, PA which is near where I grew up and I know he at least used to be a good guy. Of course, if his job has been to make the regulations lax--that hasn't worked so well as PADEP has increased the regs to better protect the environment the last few years and been quick to fine anyone that steps out of line and even shut down some operators--as they should do.

The U.S. EPA studied hydraulic fracturing a couple years ago and concluded it was safe but they are working on another study now to validate the first which is a good idea because it doesn't hurt to be sure enough when the environment is at stake.

Some of those websites posted above are either mirrors, but most of them are publication companies from Europe that are trying to make a buck by publishing magazines and conferences that cost a big chunk of change (thousands of dollars) to attend. That other poster 'cladd' as referenced above is clearly a PR person for that naturalgasforeurope deal but I'm not advertising or selling anything for anyone.

I just thought the Polish people needed something to be happy about is all--my sole motivation!

Now when I see people with an emotional response to an issue that deserves a careful scientific analysis--then I feel obliged to contribute with data and facts only so that rational people can decide for themselves. If anyone has any questions on the environmental/water supply aspect of shale gas drilling I will try to check in occasionally and answer them to the best of my abilities--or you can email me and I'll do my best to reply. I'm also interested to meet and talk to people while in Poland and learn about everything that I can about the people, culture, and history while I'm there.
Zman  
22 Mar 2011 /  #88
I am polish and I live in Poland and I am looking forward to shale-gas exploration, excavation and what not. And I have an "inside" knowledge that there is plenty of it. :-) Keeping my fingers crossed for all the companies that drill.
ElPolaco  
22 Mar 2011 /  #89
Oil shale was mined in this area. All the operations were closed down in the early 80s, the process to extract the oil from the shale was just too expensive. They've since come up with a more cost effective methold, but I guess it isn't that much cheaper, because they never reopened the operations. However, the oil companies continued drilling for oil and natural gas. Helped both the legal and illegal economies for a while (drillers love their meth). Then a few years ago the drilling stopped. Oil companies claimed Colorado taxed them too much and the environmental laws were too strict. In reality there are no major pipe lines or refineries nearby so they just drill here when gas prices go way up.
joepilsudski  
22 Mar 2011 /  #90
Gas Industry Faces The Dangers Of Fracking
Christopher Helman

HOUSTON -

Last week the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection shut down some operations of natural gas driller Cabot Oil & Gas after 8,000 gallons of toxic chemicals were spilled on the ground and into a creek in Susquehanna County.

Houston-based Cabot Oil & Gas says a hose ruptured during a process called hydraulic fracturing, a method used to break apart tight rock formations, allowing gas to escape, in which a million gallons of water mixed with sand and chemicals are shot down a well under immense pressure.

More than 80% of all wells drilled in the U.S. today use some kind of "fracking." And in the Marcellus basin, a shale rock formation that stretches across Pennsylvania, Ohio, New York and West Virginia, usage is more like 100%. Without the high flow rates created by the frack, the gas wouldn't be economical to go after. With the fracks, geologists figure the Marcellus has more than 50 trillion cubic feet of gas, enough to meet all of U.S. needs for two years.

So what's in this stuff? Hydrochloric acid, solvents, surfactants, petroleum-based lubricants, corrosion inhibitors, microbe killers. Basically, it's a lot of the same carcinogenic chemicals found in household cleaners like Formula 409 and Drano.

forbes.com/2009/09/28/cabot-hydraulic-fracturing-business-energy-fracking.html

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