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The ruling party in Poland tries to take American owned TV news station off the air


Novichok 1 | 2,927
20 Jul 2021 #181
But by Facebook Jews it is perfectly OK.
johnny reb 30 | 5,179
20 Jul 2021 #182
It would be sad try to defend censorship of the media by a failing conformist regime.

No doubt you are referring to the Liberal regime as confirmed below.

for an authoritarian, conservative, mainstream political party.

Conservative ! Mike's ass jon !
biden/obama are anything but conservative.
I think you put your shoe on the wrong foot again today jon.
Read this and tell me you are right and I am wriong.

Just days after calling voter identification requirements "the most significant test of our democracy since the Civil War," biden accused Facebook of "killing people" by failing to censor what the "White House" characterizes as "misinformation" about COVID-19 vaccines.

How about all the misinformation about Covid that biden and his cronies (dr. Fucki) spread ?
They are the ones that should be censored.
jon357 67 | 16,807
20 Jul 2021 #183
No doubt you are referring to the Liberal regime

In Poland??? A very illiberal failed regime.

biden/obama are anything but conservative.

Fortunately not. however their country's jurisdiction doesn't extend to Poland.

How about all the misinformation about Covid that biden spread ?

Are you insane?

On second thoughts, we know the answer already.
Novichok 1 | 2,927
20 Jul 2021 #184
In Poland??? A very illiberal failed regime.

Their most atrocious failures: no abortions, no gay adoptions, no gay marriage, no refugees,...Did I miss anything?
If only PiS allowed Poles to vote...They would be surprised to find out that they actually have their support. Damn...
jon357 67 | 16,807
20 Jul 2021 #185
Their most atrocious failures:

They are all among their failures, as of course is an erosion in standards of public life as well as an attack on an independent judiciary; something they will doubtless pay for the hard way.

adoptions

It's certainly united the world against PiS.
Novichok 1 | 2,927
20 Jul 2021 #186
And that is why PiS is a tiny, bottom-of-the-list party. Those damn voters just can't stand them...
jon357 67 | 16,807
20 Jul 2021 #187
a tiny, bottom-of-the-list party

Headed in that direction right now, already descended into a coalition.

Those damn voters just can't stand them...

Increasingly yes, the main reason for the indecent haste of the last presidential election; their support base declines daily.
amiga500 2 | 568
21 Jul 2021 #188
since you advocate online for an authoritarian, conservative, mainstream political party.

Well lets break that down shall we? Don't forget I grew out of a far-left activist background so i know your thought process and tricks intimately

Authoritarian: Once again the new left is trying to change the meaning of words, authoritarian means Pinochet and Junta seizing power in Burma. It does not apply to Poland, oh you will now say well look at the courts! Many countries have courts by political appointment, Germany for one, Spain has an identical judge disciplinary body that Poland introduced, yet we are authoritarian! Then you will scream about strajk kobiet and that there were some police actions, Did you see what the Macron did to the yellow vests protests and Merkel to the anti lockdown protests ? The citizens were treated 10x worse in regards to police brutality, in comparison the polish police were angels. Yet we are authoritarian but Germany and France are upholders liberal democracy. Give over!

Conservative: Well yes sure on social issues and they mouth off too much about it, but they are quite social democratic on economic issues as DW noted with their famous headline ' Poland: Where Keynes meets Jesus. Millions of families have been rescued from the grinding oppression of poverty in such a short time (thanks to 500+) than ever before. You're far left of the militant industrial union type, you surely see this yet you tow the line of 'kiełbasa for stupid people'. I understand it from traitors like Pawian , who is neo-liberal/konfa in his economic views but you should know better. Then the question comes up ,is it worth it? well peoples mileage may vary but perhaps lifting millions of people out of poverty was worth 1 percent of the population being stigmatized. (not opressed let's save that for being thrown off a roof in Gaza)

Mainstream: Well yes that they are and the banality that sometimes comes with that. But if one wants to play the game and score one has to get on the field. You on the other hand would not even admit what party you support, When I pressed you, You denied supporting/voting for Lewica as they were too 'centre' and pointed to some radical industrial workers organization that does not even have an electoral presence in Poland. It's easy being so dismissive and aloof when one is just spitting, not only not playing but is not even in the stands...

TL;DR You are wrong and I as always, am right.

their support base declines daily.

Rubbish. Are you still in the north of england as you don't seem to know what is going on? PiS support has stabilized at 34-36 percent. In 2022 the virus will have subsided and 80 percent of the population has more money in their pockets thanks to PiS revolutionary and redistributive tax cuts, and the massive national investment of 'Polish Deal' is rolled out, the goverment will bounce back to the 40 percent or so it needs to win the 2023 election.
jon357 67 | 16,807
21 Jul 2021 #189
Don't forget I grew out of a far-left activist background so i know your thought process and tricks intimately

Rubbish.

PiS support has stabilized at 34-36 percent

And as the actual figures show, is on a steady downward trend.

the goverment will bounce back to the 40 percent or so it needs to win the 2023 election.

A lot of ifs in your 'interesting' take on it, however attempts to take TV stations off air and attempts to manipulate the judiciary are more than just symptoms, and are part of what is steadily and irrevocably bringing them down.
Oathbreaker 1 | 216
21 Jul 2021 #190
Lewica as they were too 'centre' and pointed to some radical industrial workers organization

You got to be kidding me, and he has the boldness to call me an extremist!!!

Rubbish

For a government ruling party, I would say PiS has a large chance of winning the next elections. Unless Tusk sucessfully is able to underline PiS´s party policies that failed to reach the voters expectations. As PiS has the upperhand with creating a program and actually trying to stick to it (thankfully not allways sucessfully), PiS can easily counter anything the opposition throws at them by making a program and plans and focusing on talking about it in the media.
amiga500 2 | 568
21 Jul 2021 #191
, I would say PiS has a large chance of winning the next elections.

I agree, though there is the danger of mass 'renewal' feeling by the electorate after coronavirus that defies accepted wisdom. This happened in Great Britain after WW2, where despite Churchill being a adulated war hero. was swept out in a landslide. However PiS can counter that by further offering policies that enrich its citizens both socially and economically and continue build the nation through massive investment. (Which is how Labour won in 1945). It's interesting to note that moderate opposition like Hołownia is going in this direction, trying to out-PiS PiS. Polska 2050 stated policy is the introduction of a Universal Basic Income in Poland, which is like the most left wing economic policy ever.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 804
21 Jul 2021 #192
Again, PiS tax and spend, and the tax is on the middle class predominantly. Upper class will pay a little more, and they will find more write offs and business expenses. The taxation game goes on. The problem is, all of these cuts and then give away programs can not be paid for. Anyone look at the ZL today? Back up to 3.9 against the $. Inflation rising quicker than ever.

Wealthy people don't mind paying a little more. It will not break them. But the middle class can not become upper middle class with these programs. The poor get a little more money, but not enough to really make changes in their lives.

Yet, PiS wants to pick a fight with a business owned by a company that is based with Polands most important ally militarily? This is simply moronic behavior. Imagine the US putting a tax on Krakus ham, or not renewing import licenses? Or Nivea products, or all Polish products? Those business would be crushed in short order. Picking a fight is fine, but dont bring a butter knife to fight off a machine gun.
amiga500 2 | 568
21 Jul 2021 #193
PiS tax and spend, and the tax is on the middle class predominantly.

You have been watching too much TVN24 again, the middle class is not people earning more than 10-12k netto monthly, that is upper middle class. In poland one can say the middle class starts at 4-5k. The middle class which is included in the 80 percent of the population will have more money in their pockets. If you had taken my advice and stuck to Polsat News you would know this. Anyway the increase in health system contribution you are concerned about will be altered to be a higher income range in further negotiations with Gowin.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 804
21 Jul 2021 #194
@amiga500
I am all for the health care investment. Finally, better late than never. Not getting info from TVN. I watch all news and read all news regardless of outlet. Thats a balanced source of info. 10K is upper middle class, I agree. So why go after those who are just about to make it good? Maybe, the poor need to start working harder, saving more, getting a better education? You know, how most people who become successful do things. 4-5K is not middle class any more. I have low level employees making that. Middle is 7 to 10K. Watching too much TVP amiga ;-)
pawian 178 | 15,897
21 Jul 2021 #195
Don't forget I grew out of a far-left activist background

You mean you are neobolshevik by origin???
amiga500 2 | 568
21 Jul 2021 #196
Not neobolshevik and not origin, nothing do with my parents, but my 20s in Australia, more anarchist/black bloc, which were always anti-soviet.
amiga500 2 | 568
22 Jul 2021 #197
the poor need to start working harder, saving more, getting a better education?

Intercom buzzes
- Mr PolAmKrakow there is a message for you.
- Yes Matrushka?
- 80s Fads called and they want their social views back. The Reagan suit, Thatcher dinner jacket and the Ayn Rand high heels
- What? 80s said I can keep them as long as I want.
- But Sir, You have been wearing their clothes for 41 one years straight, they are mouldy and stale.
- Don't be ridiculous, I'm one of the social fashonistas of Krakow
- Sir please let me be frank as a valued employee, the only people that think your views are in vogue are a couple of your CEO friends and their lackeys. They are blowing all their money on prostitutes and cocaine, or at the casino. They are degenerates and worse than the poor!

-What?! You're fired! Pack up your office! Call Strzelec35 and offer him a job! He's your replacement!
;)

10K is upper middle class, I agree. So why go after those who are just about to make it good?

So you are neglecting the historical perspective. When in 89-91 the shock therapists introduced the most regressive tax system in central europe. How can it be that the working and middle classes are paying proportionally more tax than the well off? This needs to end and the way PiS is starting to do it is not socialism 'steal from the rich' but rather sensible economic policy. tax free thresholds to 30k and raising the income limit for the higher tax bracket. In the american context this would be regarded as libertarian republicanism and you would be jumping up and down with joy. In combination with tax free for youth and lowering CIP I don't see how someone with your economic views would have anything to complain about. The increase in health contributions income level will be raised to offset PO/Konfa/TVN attacks about attacking entrepreneurs.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 804
22 Jul 2021 #198
@amiga500
Taxes can be raised, and wealthy people usually do not mind paying more. I do not mind paying taxes at all. The problem is the generalization of this tax program. While it will hit me one way, someone making 10K per month will hit them another.

The other issue is there is no ZUS reform, and this is a business killer. While I enjoy the historical perspectives, history is not indicative of the present, and certainly is not something to control the future. It is history, and it can be used to learn from, but it can not control policy of the future when the conditions surrounding that historical context have changed.

But back on topic. Trying this licensing game with Polands most important ally is simply a stupid move.
Novichok 1 | 2,927
22 Jul 2021 #199
Polands most important ally

Protector. Ally implies equal. We are not equal.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 804
22 Jul 2021 #200
@Novichok
Good point and now the debate on the law changes has been pushed back to Aug 11.
OP mafketis 29 | 9,507
22 Jul 2021 #201
Good analysis here:

onet.pl/informacje/onetwiadomosci/pis-ma-jeden-cel-o-co-tak-naprawde-chodzi-w-ustawie-przeciw-tvn/70v00hr,79cfc278

Money quote: "Partia władzy cel ma tak naprawdę jeden: przejęcie kontroli nad największymi prywatnymi mediami, które obecnie zaburzają rządową narrację. A jeśli któregoś z tytułów, znajdujących się na liście "wrogich" mediów, nie da się kupić, to trzeba go zniszczyć."

In reality, the ruling party has one goal, the takeover of the largest private media (outlets) that currently disturb the government's narrative. And if some of those on the list of "enemy" media can't be bought off then they have to be destroyed.

PiS = neo-PRL
amiga500 2 | 568
22 Jul 2021 #202
Better analyses here youtube.com/watch?v=hTwY-KSIj7Q
TVN was set up with the backing of the communist inteligence services with FOZZ money, by Mariusz Walter, a proven collaborator. It continues to serve the interest of Polands traitors and enemies.
OP mafketis 29 | 9,507
22 Jul 2021 #203
TVN was set up

Who cares about who founded it (8 years after the end of the PRL and 23 years ago) the question is: Do you support free media?

PiS doesn't and wants to destroy any media that is ever critical of it. That is far more PRL style thinking than old men living in the past and writing up lists of traitors.

I don't support the politics of TV Trwam or TV Republika but I would never support initiatives to take them off the air for political reasons. I support free media.
Ironside 50 | 11,258
22 Jul 2021 #204
Trying this licensing game with Polands most important ally is simply a stupid move.

Nah, US gov showed they are not the most important ally by agreeing to the north stream. Now they can go F themslefses!
SamUk84
22 Jul 2021 #205
Free media... I miss those days when I used to believe in that concept.
johnny reb 30 | 5,179
22 Jul 2021 #206
Nah, US gov showed they are not the most important ally by agreeing to the north stream.

Russia is not real happy with the U.S. or Germany over the stipulations in that agreement.
Novichok 1 | 2,927
22 Jul 2021 #207
I miss those days when I used to believe in that concept.

Good line. Even Wikipedia is now a leftist outlet. That's the opinion of the guy who created it.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 804
22 Jul 2021 #208
@Ironside
F themselves? That's funny. Poland begs America, Duda was laughed at in the US with his man crush on Trump. Pi$$ off the US and they will hoe slap PiS. The US odes not need Poland, but Poland definitely needs the US. Lets not go talking trash when it can't be backed up.
Ironside 50 | 11,258
22 Jul 2021 #209
Poland begs America,

Hey not my fault dude and not in my name. If I would find myself in such a position I would have had told them plainly what I think about their action and attitude. No buts about it...some things are better left unsaid but some need to be put out there. otherwise they take you for a pushover or a beggar.

IF USA doesn't see a merit and their own interest in supporting Poland - that is that.
No biggie Poland has other options and if lead properly not by those twats in 10 - 15 years time it will cost USA big time to have what they about to lose. If they will be able to afford that at all.

Duda was laughed at in the US w

By whom ?democrats or their supportes i.e. people who wouldn't give Poland a time of a day anyways? Who are all for forcing LGBT and all other progressive BS on everything? Well they can laugh all their want they are arrogant morons anyway ...

Trump wasn't doing Poland any favors but he was really good at securing USA interest in this part of the world. Do you think you can f with China without being firmy secured in eastern Europe, or that Russia or Germany comes to the rescue - think again not in the long term, they hate your guts and will turn on you give a chance.

The US odes not need Poland, but Poland definitely needs the US.

yeah I;m sure so bugger off where you came from!!!
Just don't came back to beg on your four when the table turns, USA is not longer a dominat power, say a goodbye to the world domination - time to adjust your attitude!

JK is from a bygone age he is of PRL breed - he is old news, PO is the German option so time table for insanely pro USA gov in Poland comes to the end.
Novichok 1 | 2,927
22 Jul 2021 #210
IF USA doesn't see a merit and their own interest in supporting Poland - that is that.

There two USAs. One: the worst scum ever - aka swamp. These bastards love NATO, promotions, and wars. The other USA are those who do the paying and the dying. The lucky ones come back with PTSD. Less lucky - without arms and legs.

So, next time, wise up and try to see the difference between the two USAs.


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