The ruling party in Poland tries to take American owned TV news station off the air

why are they cowards because they do not vote as you would like them? I say kudos to them as you have been always disparaging them.


I see that you repeat that lie. Hey I won't say it again IF you don't let it sink in I will assume you love to spread lies.


Is that the current narrative of Soviet Poles? If you all repeat it like mindless drones it is easy to guess..


they are actually not ruling in Poland, unless i don't know something, so it is hard for them to make such impactful decision, other than that it is all about Poland interest in the first place, not about making friends..


Well, As that is all pretty much one sided why would you shoot yourself in the foot? There are so many thing Poland doesn't need to buy from the USA. Other means to get at Poland would be of limited effect as Poland is a part of the EU and German economy..

'half a million drunk parents' oho what a condescending attitude ..... you would need to experience some Chinese love to mellow a tad.

Please cut down on the number quotes in your posts

@Ironside
A man or woman who has an obligation to represent the people that put them in power who does not vote should be immediately removed from his or her position. They are obligated and they are cowards. This is how real people do business and real law is enforced. The are part of the "Law and Justice" group? That is injustice to those that support them and the cowards way out.

The US needs Poland for nothing. Nivea maybe, and thats about it. Poland buying what from USA? Tanks? Only because they are required to spend money on defense. Who else they going to buy from Canada? Ukraine maybe? You are blind to see Poland has no real economic impact on the USA. If USA moves troops to Romania, and stops or lowers investment is Poland, Poland is a target for takeover once again.

This is what JK wants though. A return to meat coupons, and socialist ways. Where everyone is equal, unless you have some power and influence and then you have the good life. Every person in PiS is a closet communist. Those in office are thieves and those taking money from PiS for their votes are no better. It is sad to see such a promising country be turned to the past when the past is nothing but failure.

Pretty much.


I'd say more that a person who wants to return to PRL ways (though cognitive dissonance prevents them from putting it that way).

You are ranting, it doesn't work like that and never was...


Look, do you think Poland need the us? Think again... its only NATO that is also what US need and if they ever fail to fulfil their NATO obligation you are done for and NATO is over.

What Poland is buying? - American gas for example... tell to those companies they don't need that money but hey wouldn't that be messing with their money, are you big enough to take them on?

If USA move troops to ?Romania or to the Moon they are free to do it.. boo ho!
They still have to fulfill their obligation as NATO or they are done for ... and they know it even if you don't!

JK this or that... who is better? PO? Don't make me laugh. If there is an alternative I would gladly see it in power, Konfederacja is the best shot.

Biden administration wants to shut down shale gas industry as far as I know

Rightly so.

@Ironside
In the USA if you don't vote, you don't get reelected in most cases. In Poland it is the cowards way of saying they are not strong enough to voice their own opinion and they are afraid of the bully in the room. Voting would be punching the bully in the mouth which is what needs to happen.

You really have no clue about the American economy. USA does not need Poland to buy gas. USA can easily rebuild strategic gas reserves without Poland, and cut gas prices at home in doing so. Poland needs discounted American gas and other items.

Get a grip on your NATO opinion. NATO doesn't exist without the USA. You have a distorted view of Europe and Poland. Anyone thinking Europe or Poland can stand alone against Russia needs to back away from the bong. And if Poland moves its military or reduces its commitment to Poland, Poland will become an easy target for Russian influence. The house of cards that is PiS would see the country in ruin. Poland can not stand on its own, and anyone not seeing this reality is either Ray Charles or PiS blind.

That's what a small minority of MPs (across the right) seem to want...


Poland has to basically choose a side, not a pleasant thought but the only realistic one.....

US-NATO

EU

Russia

Trying to keep all three in balance while striking its own way is.... not an option. All have problems and faults but the first two won't any kind of existential threat to Poland for the foreseeable future while the last..... hmmmmmm what does history say?

Like Targowica and the partitions all over again, sadly.


They're almost hell-bent on it. There are a few people in that party very close to Russia indeed and for a long time.

This should surprise no one... except for the usual chowderheads

ir.corporate.discovery.com/news-and-events/financial-news/financial-news-details/2021/Discovery-Inc.-to-Charge-the-Government-of-Poland-with-Violations-to-the-US-Poland-Bilateral-Investment-Treaty/default.aspx

businessinsider.com.pl/media/tv-radio/lex-tvn-discovery-podejmie-kroki-prawne-wobec-polski/eps1kpk

you probably don't understand a multi-party system (as opposed to two party system that exists in the US)

It's not a "system". Those two parties compete the way two Chicago gangs compete. That competition is real. As far as what's good for the US, they fake it.

The American voters are still too stupid to figure it out.

Who are you talking about? I didn't say it is essential to the US economy but hey there are some people/companies that stand to loose....

Poland doesn't really need that expensive gas. With the current admistracion that is just a business as any other...


Indeed but NATO with USA that doesn't fulfil its NATO obligations is just an empty shell. Nobody would need such a NATO.
So willingly or not USA would have to defend Poland. If they wouldn't that would be the end of that organization and US military presence in Europe.


Well, I don't see why not. After all EU wants to be an empire. Turkey also wouldn't stand still. I would say Russia is only that big in American eyes.

There are other options like China.

Poland is in a German zone of interest, our American buddy was supposed to help to change it. If he doesn't want it to do it, he can as well bugger off. the NATO is enough as it is. Don't tell me that USA would kick Poland out of the NATO over some trifle issues..

Come on tell me that USA doesn't need NATO and Europe and I will tell you who the winner is....

@gumishu
You probably dont understand that the USA is a muti party system as well, not two party.

@Ironside
You really do not have a grip on world politics. Poland's value to the USA is minimal. Germany, France, GB have real value to USA. Why? Because of industry, and deep financial ties. Poland is being lead down the path of not strengthening ties, not developing real industry and technology that the world will want.

The EU empire? The weak bonds and deepening divisions? This is no empire, it is a fragile experiment that is failing in many eyes. Imagine Poland getting tossed from the EU and the USA not having troops here. Imagine no more visa waiver to USA. Poland go back to being irrelevant.

While fighting for relevancy PiS has lost sight of doing the right things for the country, and the people in it. The new Polish Deal is a tax disaster, their own local governments are screaming about it. There is no way to replace the tax revenue that cities will see disappear. The middle class will be gutted financially, and the wealthy will simply carry on, or move the profitable business to more friendly countries like Slovakia. I already know someone who moved a very profitable company out of Poland to the Czech Rep because of this scheme, and they moved all key workers with it. So not only is the corporate tax gone from Poland, but all those other taxes just disappeared along with all the daily money being spent in the community.

What happens when the USA see's this business strategy of moving to different and more friendly countries? All those great call centers disappear. Think Amazon wont be influenced, or Intel, or any other number of large employers owned by US corporations. Yep, tell the USA to buggar off and Poland will be the one getting buggared.

But then there is this pesky little treaty about business dealings that Poland has signed with the USA that Discovery will now use to take legal action against Poland. Think this wont heat up quickly? PiS brought a dull kitchen knife to a gun fight.

Cut down on the cocaine old chap. I know it's popular in certain krakow 'businessman' circles, but as Iron said You're ranting and slowly loosing the plot..

You analyses might make more sense if you had replaced russia with china. Why would Poland choose russia which has the GDP of Italy? Besides,balancing competing interests and relationships with bigger nation states whilst striving to be strong and independent is the basics of geo-politics. . I suggest you read Brezinskis books especially The Grand Chessboard.


That's very naive of you. There are a few people close to russia in every party in every European country. Legitimized by various Russian friendship and business parliamentary groups. You know it was PO and Tusk that had rapprochement with Russia and enabled Russian investment into Poland that followed. PO apparatchiks benefited from that and you think those links have gone away? The Russians didn't show Katyn on primetime tv for free that's for sure. Amber Gold and the Ruskis trying to buy our successful companies during that period did not appear out of thin air.

As Jesus said " Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

Russia NATO and the EU are close, China is far away. There would be Muslim block but there's no clear leader (Saudi, Iran and Turkey are all vying for the position but none has it or is likely to get it because Muslims don't do social cooperation).

Russia is a more immediate concern since it does project force in the region. It's not that successful - Crimea was a dirty win, Novorossija was a failure and East Ukraine remains a quagmire. But also I don't think Lukashenka would still be in power without Russian feet on the ground keeping his institutions going. And any kind of projected force is a big hit with the vatniki so he has to keep them up. Biden's attempt to get rid of fracking has raised the price of oil so that adventures are economically feasible, so.... where's next?


What nation states? Hardly anyone wants to be a nation state (and nation state institutions like public education, police, courts, subsidized healthcare, social mobility are all dying in most places). Russia wants to be an empire again (as does Turkey) the EU wants to be La-la Peaceful Rainbow Land on the outside and an instrument of German industrial and financial power on the inside and the US is an empire in rapid decline (can't even tame a bunch of goat-fvkkers in Afghanistan or maintain public order domestically).

Playing off one against the other only works if there is a clear alliance, which allows for the "I'm with X but what can you do for me?" and the "X is so sniffing around, how much do you want to keep me?" But "court me!" is not a feasible long term strategy.

first past the post electoral system strongly favours two parties vying for votes (just look at the UK)

@gumishu
Strongly favors two parties does not mean it is two parties. Sanders for instance is a independent, and I believe there is also a socialist in the government now. Not sure on that but while two parties are the norm in the US, it is not how it works. Regardless, people who dont vote usually dont get re-elected, and thats as it should be.

@amiga500
Sorry kid, not lost on anything. Remember I actually work and do business here. I am a right leaning centrist, and like some PiS policy. The problem is they are not intelligent thinkers and constantly poop where they eat. This little economic treaty they signed, with the USA filing a complaint, requires a 6 month cooling off period. If the USA presses the issue, Poland will be bent over like your GF on a Friday night with the football team.

did Sanders start a new party? last I heard he did not - how many 'other parties' congressmen are there in the Congress now - 5? 10? 15? -


I vote for PiS but I don't support some of their policies - including this TVN hutzpah - as far as I know they gained nothing with it only lost

This debate about political plurarity in the USA is turning into a farce, mainly thanks to Polamkrakows cocaine and polish escort addiction. There are no 'other parties'. Sanders whilst nominally an independent caucuses with the democrats and ran for president as a democrat. The 'socialist squad' in congress of which there are five are all democrats. USA two party duopoly is the most entrenched in the world due to the corrupt corporate backing and other rules. There is no chance of a new party arising. But america was always big on stifling monopolies/duopolies ever since Standard Oil. Compare that to Poland where the scene is dynamic and parties rise and fall. This is due to some form of porportional representation which gives minor parties that represent a specific electorate a say. In Australia we have Poportional Representation in the senate with a range of views from the greens to the shooters and fishers party. It works well.


The galvanized their electoral base which has been shi**ted on by TVN24 for 10 years, they got PO to attack Konfa, which lessens the chances of them making a secret compact, and they got the pay raises for politicians off the news pages, pretty smart if you ask me :)

Gonna defend that?

It's politics mate, put your big boy pants on. Btw i will respond to your reasoned and informed geopolitics post tomorrow when i have some time.

Really?
Look I don't talk about this station or what nots of PiS politicks because I think that don't know what they are doing or doing it for the wrong reasons.

I'm talking about something else - USA wouldn't kick Poland out of the NATO and has to defend Poland. Poland doesn't need to bend backwoods for the USA just because of that..

Also if Poland's and USA interest clashed - things that USA can do to Poland are very limited bevosue of the EU and Germany. (not talking about war here)

Also there is another alterative for Poland i.e. China and don't tell me they are too far away as USA is not that close either..

Also Russia is not as much of a threat as you claim..

Also American investments are there due to EU and money not due to some deep reasons like an urge to help develop Polish economy and it scale is minuscule comparing to Germany involvement in Poland ...in fact Polish economical development so far depends on EU and Germany and there I see a danger but that it not the topic.

So instead of writing a big paragraph practically ramming home a massage USA Big and Poland small.
Why don't you answer my question ?- Do you think that USA doesn't need NATO and Europe?

i dont get why Poland just doesn't ally with Russia again and Serbia. makes no sense really or be neutral.why suck the us d so hard and embarrass yourself to the world how wrsk you are saying shet like oh lets build s trump base here and turn Poland into some us ministry army men stag party ****. it was ridiculous. why not come to the talking tables with Putin and divide east euro together or something. or do some big things dem big things economically in the region? the biggest threat to humanity isn't Russia but America with its stupid anti white male feminism and tyranny movements. and its sex offender focus and destroying itself from within. i prisoning young white males and males in genders by millions. but Russia is the bad guy? Americans should have a civil war already i mean they just look for scapegoats or criminals felons etc. anyone to put down within their own country or people cause they cant do it to Indians or races now.

Cause the last time svkked donkey d]cks?

The last time also Poland didn't go it they had smigly Rudd and Pilsudski as military dictators who tried invading Russia. You can't compare that Stalinist Russia not wanting to ally with Poland with today's Russia on the defensive being encroached by NATO from all sides. Most Russians really are cool with polish people and prefer them to even say Ukrainians etc. it's a diff time man - Hitler and Stalin are gone.

But the underlying problems remain.... Russia is a stunted economy too based on resource extraction and not based enough on anything else and is far too stratified to have a healthy society (it's an oligarch infested kleptocracy with a massive underclass that has no equivalent in Poland, see vatniki).

It has massive social problems like violence at all levels of society not to mention drug addiction among the young which are simply ignored and the government usually does absolutely nothing to help people in cases of natural disaster.

None of what Russia is (or is likely to be) is in line with general Polish aspirations.


Historically, no one in this part of the world has ever much like Ukrainians... current relations are about as positive as possible.

@Ironside
Actually, USA does not need most of Europe at all, and they don't need Poland. Need and want are two very different things. Wanting Poland for sake of keeping Russia on its toes is one thing, while finding a similar option in a different country that is less hostile to its biggest protector is another. What exactly does the US need Poland for? The gas idea is not really a threat, plenty of places to sell gas or store it as prices rise.

Poland is heading down an isolationist road. Just like Russia did and that has worked out so well for them.

@amiga500
All the best ones take black cards so its all good. Meanwhile your GF is looking taking he coins from the team to the bank and trying to save a few pounds for more yeast infection treatments. Must be a loaf of bread by now.

The vote passed!!! Bye bye jewish media!!!