Poland to return to Catholic tradition?

While those who support PiS and their whack-a-doodle policies are punished right here on earth (by getting just what they say they want and getting it good. and. hard.)

Be fair, some of those who supported PIS are getting paid back for that support to the tune of tens of thousands of zloty a month for doing sod all. But you're right that the average PIS supporter is getting bent over in order to pay for those bribes, TKM and revenge for The Dear Leader Chairman Kaczynski. Which does make me wonder, given that all we're seeing the return of in Poland bribes, TKM and revenge for The Dear Leader Chairman Kaczynski, does the OP think that those things are Catholic traditions?


Sadly that's true. The RCC has the potential to do huge amounts of good here in Poland but instead it seems set on marginalising itself to the greatest extent possible and on driving away new members.

It's entirely par for the course for that particular brand of ultra-conservatist churchmanship which the supporters of the PiS cult are most often exposed to: austerity right, hedonism wrong; piety right, fun wrong; old right, new wrong; suffering right and "part of God's plan", betterment wrong and "the Devil's work".

You wish. That is what your iman back in Ankara told you to say during your dawah, right?

But as much as you try to convert Poland to your cult, Poland will remain catholic. And you will keep complaining here about how Poles are racist because they vote for PiS.

Lol

As even the data from the RCC shows, practising Catholics in Poland are now a small minority. Only something-teen percent of Poles meet the minimum requirements of practising Catholics these days.


Only 18 percent of Poles voted for PIS, a number very similar to the percentage of Poles who meet the minimum requirements of practising Catholics, and strangely also very similar to the percentage of Poles who were in the Party back when the Party was the PZPR rather than PIS.

It is not you (a turkish muslim) who define which person is a practicing catholic. I don't frequent the church (because there is none here) but i am a practicing catholic.

As i said, even with all your efforts to convert people, Poland is the second most religious country in EU just after Malta. And guess what? Both are catholics ;)

You are not a practicing Catholic if you don't even meet the minimum expectations of being one.


Poland is not really religious at all. Most people pay lip service - I know one chap who provides a healthy yearly donation to the local church so that the priest can enjoy some nice things. In return, the priest turns a blind eye to him using immigrant slave labour. Is he religious, despite his nice large donations? Of course not.

Quite. And for a certain political and cultural tendency in Poland and elsewhere this news 50% confirms their fears that even their God has forsaken them and 50% sends them into a sulking rage.

I'm neither Turkish nor a muslim (although I suppose it is natural that after so many years where you live for a person to look at their superiors and assume that such persons are muslims) and I would never dream of trying to define who is and is not a practising Catholic. However, the RCC itself sets out very clear requirements as to what is the minimum expected from the faithful, and the overwhelming majority of Poles do not meet those very clear requirements, just as the overwhelming majority of Poles did not vote for PIS and the overwhelming majority of Poles were not members of the Party back in the dark days of communism.


Well, that's not entirely true, he could in theory be a practicing Catholic even if he doesn't meet the minimum requirements of the Vatican, he just isn't a practising Roman Catholic, just as the vast majority of Poles aren't practising Roman Catholics.

Ignoring all the rants from Muslims on this topic and going to the original thread, Another very interesting polish catholic tradition that i noticed is the ideal of family.

Maybe that is why, according to a recent poll on Ipsos, Polish woman with kids are much happier than those without kids, something different of what is observed in western european countries.

Er, how have you managed to notice that given that the birth-rate has gone from 2.42 in the 1980s to 1.30 today and the number of divorces per year doubled in the last decade?

Again Harry, Polish people prefer quality than quantity, differently than you muslims that prefer to have 6 kids so you can send 5 to jihad.

So you cannot argue against the numbers in this case. While Poles have less kids (like virtually all the rest of the world), polish woman are happier when they have kids, differently than western couples that are happy to just adopt a dog.

And that, as i said, is a very beautiful aspect of Polish Catholic Heritage (but you as a muslim would never understand).

They just have no money. It's enough to compare the numbers with Poles that moved to the uk or norway.

Got a link to that?


Straight from your guru's mouth. He and now you as outsiders and/or wannnabee poor man's theologians somehow feel competent to pontificate about other people's religion.

Harold is Muslim ! That helps connect the dots.
Poland will return to Catholic traditions when times get hard again.
Haven't you ever noticed how religion accelerates and people become religious all of a sudden when they get confronted with death of a loved one or told that they are terminal, hospitalized, incarcerated, desperation, etc. and all of a sudden they find religion.

Poland will turn back to Catholic tradition when the Lord deems time to humble them again.

Why do you tell such pointless lies? As I said in this very thread "I would never dream of trying to define who is and is not a practising Catholic. However, the RCC itself sets out very clear requirements as to what is the minimum expected from the faithful, and the overwhelming majority of Poles do not meet those very clear requirements, just as the overwhelming majority of Poles did not vote for PIS and the overwhelming majority of Poles were not members of the Party back in the dark days of communism."

What is expected does not mean you will be excommunicated if you fall short of the "faithful's" expectations as we are all sinners.

Even the faithful sin Harold.
Sinners are still considered to be Catholic.
Sinners includes all of us no matter what denomination, agnostic, atheist, Catholic, Baptist, Tree Hugger, Islam, Jewish.......

Anyone can join the catholic club, the idea is you try and improve yourself along the way, some fall short from time to time that's what confession is for.

Not "some fall short" every mortal man on earth falls short.
However you are right, we can't just go through the motions as the upper and downers do and expect to have our fire insurance covered.


Ah, correct, putting in practice the talk daily is the ticket.
You can meet the RCC requirements and still miss the boat while others who don't score ten on the RCC requirements still will find a place in heaven.


And you don't have to confess your sins to a priest to be forgiven, you can confess to another brother in the Lord or the Lord Almighty Himself to be forgiven. And once you do you never have to ask for forgiveness for that sin again.

Unless you commit it again of course!


That's absolutely true.

No, it just mean you aren't doing the very necessary minimum as set forth in precepts of the Church, the laws for the faithful of the RCC to follow. The overwhelming majority of Poles don't bother, just as the overwhelming majority of Poles didn't bother joining the Party in the dark days of communism.

I agree but even so, they are still considered a Catholic.

One Irish comedian, forget who now, says 'How do you know you're Irish? You're a Catholic but you never go to mass'. The joke could work in Poland too!

The Vatican does not consider them to be part of the faithful, i.e. practising Roman Catholics. Possibly they could be one of the other types of Catholics, Alexandrian perhaps.


I remember reading a survey released (a decade or so ago) which found that 98% of Poles described themselves as Catholic but only 94% of Poles believed in god.

Again, I agree HOWEVER..................
Just because they are not faithful does not mean the Vatican does not consider them Catholic.
There are faithful Catholics and unfaithful Catholic yet they BOTH are still Catholics.

Johnny is right you know. To the best of my knowledge, you only cease to be a Catholic if you're excommunicated or you decide for yourself that you are no longer a Catholic.

"Vatican does not consider them to be part of the faithful, i.e. practising Roman Catholics",

I don't go to church on a regular basis (and I have never been in my parish church here in Poland), the priest comes once a year to bless my house and we pray together, never once has he talked to me about attending church, he made sure i was written into the parish books if i should ever need him.

We have talked about my family and our history, why i returned to Poland etc, he never said i was a bad catholic and did not stand in judgment.

And it seems I was wrong! I just checked and even if you're excommunicated you're still a Catholic. You're barred from Communion and the other sacraments but you are still considered a Catholic and can be allowed back to full membership so to speak, if you get the all clear.

It means that the RCC thinks that they are not believers, they are not part of "the unity of believers, who form one body in Christ". They might at one point return to the faithful but they are not now part of the faithful, as is shown by the fact that they do not respect the precepts of the Church, just as the vast majority of Poles do not bother to do.


No, at that point you are not welcome to take part in the faithful; you are not part of the faithful and you are not welcome to become part of the faithful.


That depends on what you do after you decide that.

With all you said Harry they are still considered Catholics, faithful or not.
Do you agree ?