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Poland to return to Catholic tradition?


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
15 Feb 2016 #1
During 45 years of Soviet-style rule with its persecution of the church under Stalinism and anti-clericalism in later decades, the Church was often the only place Poles could feel free. It was largely the strong position and public support of the church that prevented widespread collectivisation in Poland. After Poland ditched communism in 1989, Catholics sought to return to pre-Communist tradition. Church weddings became legal once again and the Epiphany and Assumption Day were restored to legal-holiday status. Religious instruction returned to schools, and streets such as "ulica Wincentego" under the Communists regained their pre-World War name of "ulica św. Wincentego" ). And priests were once again invited to bless newly built roads, bridges, schools, shopping malls, supermarkets and other private and public facilities.

But an exceptionally cynical and hypocritical version of "biting the hand" was displayed by the so-called dissidents mainly sharing Michnik's judaeo-commie roots. When they needed the Church, they eagerly held their meetings and hunger strikes on Church premises and enjoyed the protection of the cassock under martial law. But they displayed incredible ingratitude once they came to power and almost immediately launched vicious attacks on the Church.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
15 Feb 2016 #2
You've just reminded me of my favourite Tumblr account : polishpriests.tumblr.com

It's very enjoyable.
Ktos 16 | 440
15 Feb 2016 #3
Michnik, a typical example of a chameleon, a traitor of the highest order. It is a pity that Church does not bite back and bite more than the hand.
Harry
15 Feb 2016 #4
vicious attacks on the Church.

How did those vicious attacks compare to the ones launched throughout the 1960s, '70s and '80s by the loyal servants of the Party on the RCC? If you'd be so kind as to link to the supposed attacks made by Michnik on the RCC, we can compare them to the faithful servants of Moscow who are now slavish supporters of PIS. I personally find it fascinating to see how people who over decades persecuted (and in some cases prosecuted) the RCC faithful now paint themselves as being more Catholic than the Pope.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
15 Feb 2016 #5
I personally find it fascinating to see how people who over decades persecuted the RCC faithful now paint themselves as being more Catholic than the Pope.

The thing that's very interesting is that a lot of these Catholics only discovered their 'faith' after 1989. Before that, they were paying lip-service to the faith - secret baptisms, not attending church on Sunday because it would look bad in front of their comrades, etc etc.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
15 Feb 2016 #6
secret baptisms

And nocturnal church marriages at the rectory (vicarage to Brits) in a distant town were also not unusual. I wouldn't call that lip service. On the

contrary, that demonstrated a desire to be in good standing with one's faith without endangering the family budget. Playing both ends against the middle maybe, but not everyone is a martyr.

BTW many Poles found out they were Jewish only after 1968. Others after 1989.
whocares
15 Feb 2016 #7
Unfortunetly the Church has been losing its influence for some time. When I speak of this I mean politically.
Catholics in Europe and the Americas often start to make up their own opinions (about abortions, homosexual "marriages" and so on). This has too do with Liberalism, Globalism, politics and media.

This has created some disunity among Catholics.
With that said Catholicism is stronger in Poland compared to some Western nations which is fine.

The Church has had many enemies. I may sound like a conspiracy theorist too some but lets just say Freemasonry was never a friend of the Church.

And they what an earlier Pope called the Synagogue of Satan have much influence in politics. Every Catholic should read about Freemasonry to be informed how they oppose the Church. This organization(s) are strong in UK/US/France/Italy/Latin America despite the fact some of these countries are majority Catholic.
jon357 69 | 18,445
15 Feb 2016 #8
Freemasonry (a long and rich tradition in Poland, by the way) has no organisational opinion on that or any other religious denomination and is not an 'enemy' of any group whatsoever.

Any hostility traditionally came from the other direction however it was refreshing to see the Vatican appoint a chaplain to one of the Italian grand lodges several years back...
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
15 Feb 2016 #9
how they oppose the Church

Freemasonry is a pseudo- or quasi-religion with its own temples, altars, liturgies, secret practices, vestments and moral code irreconcilable with Catholicism. That is why on Nov. 26, 1983, with the approval of Pope John Paul II, the Sacred Congregation reiterated the ban on Catholics joining the Masons: "The Church's negative position on Masonic association ... remains unaltered, since their principles have always been regarded as irreconcilable with the Church's doctrine. Hence, joining them remains prohibited by the Church. Catholics enrolled in masonic associations are involved in serious sin and may not approach Holy Communion."
smurf 39 | 1,981
15 Feb 2016 #10
That is why on Nov. 26, 1983, with the approval of Pope John Paul II, the Sacred Congregation reiterated the ban on Catholics joining the Masons

He also said you shouldn't use condoms..........that really worked out didn't it!
dolnoslask
15 Feb 2016 #11
Pol , Freemasonry is all about a bunch of (Usually) business people who have clubbed together to try and create a competitive edge over their business rivals, yes they play dress up and have their fancy initiation routines but, their is nothing spiritual or demonic about them, they are just bankster style business people who will give an advantage to a fellow member.

When I was working in the UK I had certain clients who were in the type of professions associated with freemasonry, many a time I would do the special handshake and get the return (I know you are in my club) thumb press from them in return. (I am not a freemason by the way)

I personally thing that the trick or treat Halloween witch / devil worship dress up night is far more of a threat to the catholic tradition.
Pol attorney 2 | 106
15 Feb 2016 #12
I am not a freemason by the way)

you are lucky then because masons go straight to hell after death...and there is no escape from there..
jon357 69 | 18,445
15 Feb 2016 #13
because masons go straight to hell after death

According to you...
dolnoslask
15 Feb 2016 #14
"you are lucky then" I am not lucky I am a roman Catholic, I hope to be judged worthy enough not to go to hell, but i am not sure if heaven is ready for my smoking drinking and obsession with fast noisy motorcycles, so I may end up in purgatory, permanently.
Harry
15 Feb 2016 #15
BTW many Poles found out they were Jewish only after 1968. Others after 1989.

And lots of former Party men found out they were Catholics after the Party could no longer give them anything for selling their fellow Poles to Moscow, didn't they?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
15 Feb 2016 #16
masons go straight to hell

And perverts too!
dolnoslask
16 Feb 2016 #17
"masons go straight to hell" I would like to add to the list, Jehovah witnesses and trick and theaters.
jon357 69 | 18,445
16 Feb 2016 #18
I'd say that you would know Po, since sexual diversity is your favourite subject by far however in fact your knowledge of doctrine is as usual wrong here. That or you're simply trolling.

Focus on the thread, not the posters.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
16 Feb 2016 #19
diversity

Not diversity but trying to normativise, euphemise or sugar-coat society-threatening perversions!
jon357 69 | 18,445
16 Feb 2016 #20
As I've said before, you're completely obsessed with the subject. You must think about it so much.
dolnoslask
16 Feb 2016 #21
"threatening perversions!" Many religions denounce and condemn perversions, both the quran and the bible are clear on what is perversion , people have the right to freedom to practice and preach their religion. (well in the free world at least).
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
16 Feb 2016 #22
knowledge of doctrine

Perversion such as bloke on bloke fornication or adultery as well as man-woman pre-marital and or extra-marital intimacy is a grave sin and if not absolved through confession dooms the sinner to eternal flames. Like it or not, such is the teaching of the One, Holy and Apostolic Catholic Church. Ask Atch, if you don't beleive it.
jon357 69 | 18,445
16 Feb 2016 #23
Like it or not, such is the teaching of the One, Holy and Apostolic Catholic Church

It isn't anything of the sort.

Though good that you wrote it, since it illustrates the sort of dreary rhetoric that has over the last decade caused the RCC in Poland to haemorrhage weekly communicants. That and the deeply unpopular teaching on family planning.
Atch 16 | 3,471
16 Feb 2016 #24
Halloween witch / devil worship

Halloween has nothing to do with Satan or devil worship. It long pre-dates Christianity. I'm afraid it's the Americans in their simple minded fashion who created this idea.

far more of a threat to the catholic tradition.

Well where Halloween originates in my own part of the world, the two have co-existed happily for about 1500 years. That's because it's part of our culture. In Poland it's just one more cheap, meaningless American import and has absolutely no cultural significance for Poles. But it's hardly a threat to society.

Ask Atch, if you don't beleive it.

Yes I'm an acknowledged expert not only on the Liturgical Calendar but on all matters relating to scripture.
Roger5 1 | 1,455
16 Feb 2016 #25
Well, that's me damned then, eh Pol? My wife and I were not married by an RC priest, so that makes us adulterers who will spend etertinity in hellfire, right? You should read A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, by Joyce. You'd love the retreat passage.
Marc1986
16 Feb 2016 #26
It is refreshing and good to see catholic traditions being revived.

Makes me stay sure that Poland will not turn into another multiculturalist islamized hellhole like Sweden.

By the way, why Jon357 comes to a topic about catholic traditions, start to rant about the sexuality of the OP, and he is NOT EVEN WARNED and his comments deleted by the mods?
Harry
16 Feb 2016 #27
It is refreshing and good to see catholic traditions being revived.

Interesting to see you saying that when even the data coming from the RCC itself show that fewer and fewer Poles are bothering to even go to church on Sundays.

the RCC in Poland to haemorrhage weekly communicants.

No, it's the number of Dominicantes which has fallen from the high fifties (percent of the population) to the low thirties. Or at least that's the number of people in church on the Sunday when the RCC counts heads. The percentage of communicants has gone up by some 69% at the same time as the number of Dominicantes has plunged by 45%.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
16 Feb 2016 #28
etertinity in hellfire

Some believe in the literal version (eg southern Baptists in the USA), but many modern Catholic theologians regard hell not as a place but a state and punishment if any might involve consignment to a state devoid of the Absolute (God). One can only speculate as to how people will be judged but contemporary Church teaching tends to emphasise the mercifulness of God rather than His punitive nature. Of course, Atch is a much better theological source for such questions, but IMHO you and the Mrs needn't fear hellfire for not marrying in the Church. Only those who support KOD, PO or Petru need to fear Divine Punishment (ha-ha!).
Marc1986
16 Feb 2016 #29
Traditions are not revived by numbers Harry. Nowadays we have less than 5% of the relative number of jews that we had 100 years ago, but still their traditions are more alive than never.

The number of Anglican bishops/priests going back to catholicism and the increase in the tridentine mass shows that traditions doesnt need crowds.

Spice Girls need crowds.
jon357 69 | 18,445
16 Feb 2016 #30
Nowadays we have less than 5% of the relative number of jews that we had 100 years ago, but still their traditions are more alive than never.

Here in Poland those traditions are barely a shadow of what they once were. Though fortunately they are returning slowly.

has fallen from the high fifties (percent of the population) to the low thirties

Haemorrhaging.

Already a minority sport and increasingly a rural one.


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