SHOULD POLAND HAVE NUKES??

By a handful of interceptor missiles?

Initially it would be that, then maybe actual war heads.. It's not beyond the realm of comprehension for some dumb US neo con to want this in Poland.

Obama's little concession to the Russians saved everyone lots of headaches. It will bear fruit down the way. Actually already has.

Like his concessions to Iran...

That doesn't make much sense. To turn a defensive site into an offensive site...especially in such a vulnerable location.

Considering the makeup of both Russian and American offensive and defensive capabilities, it's easy to see that this was purely political and neither threatening or a credible deterrent.

The Russians saw it this way.. Why wouldn't they.. the US invaded Iraq without any credible evidence. You don't see why they would be a little antsy about maneuvers in Poland?? What if they were to do in the same in Greenland? El Salvador?


It doesn't? You haven't seen American weapons build up start incrementally before?

Even if you placed 5000 interceptors in Poland, it would have no impact.

Truth is perception.. and Russia didn't perceive it that way. Also, those missiles aren't exactly some shiny oversized dil.dos.. tests have shown some effectiveness.

Not against a force that is largely based at sea and in the air.

America wanted to marginalize Russia politically, and the Russians wanted to show that they wouldn't be marginalized. No threat to MAD.

Why do you think there would be widespread opposition? What if Polands existance once again was threatened? Like it or not I think Russia in some ways is Polands biggest enemy even today. I think as Poland gets wealthier they should try and acquire nukes eventually.

They don't even want nuclear power, and quite a few were against the missile shield for whatever reason.

Energy independence discussions are kicking in again...

After the problems with the petrol refinery in Lithuania a few years ago, talks started about nuclear energy.

Poland is a member of Nato, which has enough Nukes. Russia is not a problem, they want to do business and get paid.

How about things like a functioning health care system get introducing before nukes get bought?

What's the use of a health care system in the face of Russian invasion?

Let's see.

Russians

- Nov. 1920 Soviet invasion of Armenia

- Feb 1921 Soviet Invasion of Georgia

- Sept. 1939 Soviet Invasion of Poland

- Nov. 1939 Soviet invasion of Finland

- Aug. 1945 Soviet invasion of Manchuria

- Nov. 1956 Soviet invasion of Hungary

- Aug. 2008 Russian invasion of Georgia

- Aug. 1968 Soviet lead Warsaw Pact invasion of Czekoslovakia

- Dec. 1979 Soviet invasion of Afghanistan

There is more but that should suffice for now.

Pakistanis (as a political entity haven't existed for 100 years)

- October 1947 Pakistanis invaded Kashmir

- August 1965 Pakistani launch a covert offensive into the Indian-administered Jammu and Kashmir

If the number of invasions were to be the deciding factor of who should have nukes then the following countries should give them up:

United Kingdom
USA
Israel
France
Pakistan
China

Conclusion is who has nukes will not get invaded and can do its own invasions
Poland needs nukes that be the best health system.

Yep, yep, yep...

If we consider the health care systems of nuclear countries such as India or Pakistan, I think Poland is more than ready for its own nukes.

Except Derek, that the government and people of Poland have shown no interest whatsoever in nuclear weapons, and plenty of interest in healthcare reform.

The problem is, Poland had her share of health care reforms already, thank you very much. And every such a reform had made a health care slightly worse. In concequence, today we have terrible health care, but it still exists... For now. One more "reform" and we will have no health care to reform anymore. Well, maybe it collapses after two reforms. But there is no way in hell for Polish health care to any survive more of it.

So I prefere for a government to turn their colective attention to a nukes. Or "dopalacze". Or whatever that is not related to everyday's life. That will give them a feeling that they are doing something important, but without ruining everyone's life, for a change.

Good stuff, Kondzior. Sounds like what we're dealing with over here now. All this government "help" is killing us...

What do you mean "considering it's history"? Look at US and Russia. We haven't exactly had stable, conflict free histories, yet we have them. In my opinion, no place on earth should have the damn things. They are way too dangerous for anyone to have. It wouldn't bother me if everyone on the planet decided to get rid of them and never make new ones.

Which country really needs nukes? Arguments can go round in circles but that's the key question.

The reforms are a move towards more free market health care.


The ones that don't want to worry about being invaded.

That's a good point. If every country on earth had them, would any country ever invade any other? Or, it could mean an extinction level event.

MAD has worked so far.

What country needs nukes?
Nukes are great equalizers. Just like a gunpowder was.
Gunpowder once would let a farmboy kill a knight. Let someone with basic training to defeat one who could afford to train martial arts his entire life.

In the same way nukes would enable any shabby, ragged country to stare down world's superpower. Every country in the world needs nukes.
Granted, there is some significant danger for all Earth's life going extinct in the process. But that is the risk I am willing to take.

PS - or Mods will tell me off for OT - no, of course Poland doesn't need nukes - The North Atlantic Treaty Organisation states that "it will come to the assistance of...with all means necessary, including the use of nuclear weapons........."

Simple enough for anybody - especially the Russkis.

The second part of that quote isn't mine

Yes, Poland should have nukes !