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Poland to get the newest version of M1A2 Abrams tank


Oathbreaker 4 | 495
16 Jul 2021 #31
@Bratwurst Boy
I said mostly, not only.

An army requires a single language, for quick communication. Germanic languages are easy to learn, even by the most low ranking soldiers of any potential enemy army. (English/German in particular)

While Polish is one of the most difficult ones, which would lead to the army being mostly compromised by Poles for... Natural reasons...

Which language/nation should be the most dominant in the army? That is the question, in the past it was popular to use German as military language, how popular that would be as a concept politically will be difficult

Having the army use Polish as a language would also refute any arguments of it being a German project. As far as history goes, Polish language have given the German administration the most headaches!
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,959
16 Jul 2021 #32
I have no problem with English....the problem here will be the French who will want to avoid using English at all costs! *shrugs*

As far as history goes, Polish language have given the German administration the most headaches!

Yeah...I know this joke! :)
mafketis 34 | 12,207
16 Jul 2021 #33
The EU army is definitely discussed as we speak!

The question is against who? My thought has always been the purpose of an EU army is to put down domestic unrest when national armies might be hesitant to use violence agains their fellow citizens... (see yellow vests in France)
Oathbreaker 4 | 495
16 Jul 2021 #34
I have no problem with English....the problem here will be the French who will want to avoid using English at all costs! *shrugs*

One could push for a European language which isn't part of the EU as a compromise, Norwegian basically. (It's practically Danish), Denmark and Sweden won't object as it's not each other's language and is easily understood by them.

Most Europeans don't have a beef with Norway or even care. Also it would be an argument politically inside Norway to join the EU

@mafketis
The purpose of the military is to deal with external threats, not internal ones. Which is why the police force came to existence, to deal with internal problems more efficiently.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,959
16 Jul 2021 #35
The question is against who?

Probably Russia...China....immigrants from Africa and Arabia....but mainly to get away from the US led NATO umbrella and those "2 percent"....

One could push for a European language which isn't part of the EU as a compromise,

Or we start to develop our own! :)

reddit.com/r/Jokes/comments/2o4rkq/english_to_become_official_language_of_the_eu/
Oathbreaker 4 | 495
16 Jul 2021 #36
Or we start to develop our own! :)

@Bratwurst Boy

That did make me smile, funny. But Germanization isn't that of a nice ring to it tho. The problem with making it work out/impartial and european
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,959
16 Jul 2021 #37
I still think the pragmatics will win in the end and agree on English...German is no option for historical reasons....and the other choice would be French...and that is much much much more complicated and not as popular...
Oathbreaker 4 | 495
16 Jul 2021 #38
@Bratwurst Boy
If Spanish was chosen (I don't know Spanish by the way)
It would lead to huge increase in influence in South America. Potentially in the U.S too if how things are going continues. Nobody see Spain as a challenge either today.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,959
16 Jul 2021 #39
I had a few years spanish and quite an interest in south american affairs....I wouldn't be averse! :)

Maybe an EU army would be multilingual...why the hell not!
Oathbreaker 4 | 495
16 Jul 2021 #40
@Bratwurst Boy
I only need to remind you of the Austria-Hungarian army for you to dismiss that idea. It would only work if officers spoke one language, each unit with their own language, and one or more non-officers knowing the officers language.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,959
16 Jul 2021 #41
Well...I'm not hurting my head over that....there will be expensively paid people who can do that, heh:)
Oathbreaker 4 | 495
16 Jul 2021 #42
@Bratwurst Boy
Sure, but how efficient would it be?
OP GefreiterKania 11 | 1,482
16 Jul 2021 #43
Maybe I don't move in the right circles but I don't know of anybody who "wants anything back"!

You're a nice, educated guy - you move in different circles.

The EU army is definitely discussed as we speak!

It would be extremely difficult to create a working EU army. Only in Polish army we have German, Russian (and now American) tanks - different spare parts, ammunition, software - everything. To create a unified EU army would require a herculean work and, most of all, the concord of all the countries, which seems highly unlikely.

If PiS really wanted to buy tanks, it would make much more sense to get more Leopards (and even more to get gazillions of anti-tank weapons instead) which are already used by our army and beloved by our panzer troops.

Austria-Hungarian army

Gefreiter Kania's army - the best fighting force ever! ;)
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,959
16 Jul 2021 #44
Sure, but how efficient would it be?

Hmm....depends! An army is a sure huge symbol of the success of inner unification and a message to outer would-be rivals...it is also a job machine for countless people from all over Europe (and with that an integrating and unifying force on its on) and a motor for scientific and technological progress and advancement all of Europe will profit from.

How efficient it really is would only a hot war show....something which I don't really want to see in my life time....
Oathbreaker 4 | 495
16 Jul 2021 #45
@GefreiterKania
That is only if you ignore their view of Tusk being sent out of Berlin to "fix" things. They are allergic to all things German, mostly cause the opposition is more connected with Germany. Which would make them lose influence every time internally, which is why they prefer contact with U.S or other EU countries.

Tusk is the more "Germanised" option
While PiS is the non-German option. It would be downright weird for them to do it. The Polish military doesn't have that much power to pull through such thoughts.

Gefreiter Kania's army - the best fighting force ever! ;)

My inner Pole "screamed" I'll make my own army then! When I got refused two days ago to join the army. Thankfully I got a calm head
OP GefreiterKania 11 | 1,482
16 Jul 2021 #46
Tusk is the more "Germanised" option (...) While PiS is the non-German option.

Hm... that is probably accurate when it comes to political sympathies, but in military matters sympathies should be put aside and pure logic used instead.

PiS will surely lose the 2023 elections; Poland 2050 and KO will form a coalition and all polls show that it will be enough to form the new government, so the PiS-era comes to an end. We live in interesting times, that's for sure.

When I got refused two days ago to join the army.

What? You would make a great soldier, Grunni. Keep trying!
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,959
16 Jul 2021 #47
so the PiS-era comes to an end.

...no more spit at Germans! :)

GRUNNI!!! :)
OP GefreiterKania 11 | 1,482
16 Jul 2021 #48
No, they will still do it... but this time from the opposition benches (luckily!) :)
Oathbreaker 4 | 495
16 Jul 2021 #49
@GefreiterKania
I agree, problem is that since 1945 the Polish army still has problems of nepotism, and a subliminal non-professional attitude towards politicians which is a product of Soviet Unions red army mentality.

If the Polish army saw the government as a provider of means towards the security of the republic as a whole, not as a political "General" whom you need to obey every order without questions regarding the improvement of the Polish army operational capabilities, professionalism and lack of equipment/wages etc.

There should be set a standard of how much money each unit needs for it's creation (purchase of equipment/organizational work etc) and it's monthly costs.

Which would make it easier to organize it, there is too much experimenting currently going on.

Should just make a very cheap easy standard to build on, then improve it from there.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,959
16 Jul 2021 #50
Ever thought to work actively with those starting projects? It could be your career....you bring the passion for it....

It starts here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Security_and_Defence_Policy

gov.pl/web/national-defence/poland---european-union

Look for an office near you....ask what you would need to bring to the table and look for work there...that's where the future EU army will grow out of, just my two cents!
Oathbreaker 4 | 495
16 Jul 2021 #51
What? You would make a great soldier, Grunni. Keep trying!

I know, one of the soldiers even said it would been a sin to throw away such a soldier like me! :)

@Bratwurst Boy
Finally you noticed, started to worry about you. Fun to have a heated discussion again tho!

If anything, Polish far right is more concerned about not being spat on by Germans. (Only need to look up Rota)

I remember in my childhood myself, how happy I was just to belong to a group of neighborhood kids just to be there with my best friend. Then suddenly one of the youngest spat on my face, I instinctly with rage hit him in the stomach. To my surprise and everyone around me, had to bail tho cause his older brother went to fetch his big father (little me fight him? No way, I ain't stupid) so I retreated back home. Thankfully he became more calm when he chilled
Oathbreaker 4 | 495
16 Jul 2021 #52
@Bratwurst Boy
I don't know, would be a great idea. Wouldn't I need permission from the Polish army first or government of Poland? As I don't know wether it would be a breach of my military oath or not
Ironside 51 | 11,338
16 Jul 2021 #53
EU army

Is a mirage! They talk about it all the time for years now, hell decades and that all there is - talk.
They will enevr be any EU Army to speak off, If they start to do something it will be how to suck more money then there will be multitude of pen pushers and if the EU army ever come to exist it will be in form suited to to put down 'populistic' anti -EU movements or governments.

.no more spit at Germans! :)

Yeah sure cause Germans are just innocent bystanders..
mafketis 34 | 12,207
16 Jul 2021 #54
purpose of the military is to deal with external threats, not internal ones

But this proposed EU Army (last I knew) had no airforce which makes it useless for dealing with outside threats...
Oathbreaker 4 | 495
16 Jul 2021 #55
@mafketis
I would be surprised if the EU began with an air force, infantry and troops of the ground are the backbone. Air Force is to deal with what threatens the infantry/won't it can't deal with of it's own.

Infantry has defensive/control purposes, Air Force has the purpose of destruction/transportation
AntV 5 | 731
17 Jul 2021 #56
.but mainly to get away from the US led NATO umbrella and those "2 percent"....

If there was to be an EU army, wouldn't there need to be more than 2-percent spent to build and maintain such a force?

What? You would make a great soldier, Grunni. Keep trying!

Oathbreaker is Grunni? Makes sense--sensible fellow.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,959
17 Jul 2021 #57
If there was to be an EU army, wouldn't there need to be more than 2-percent spent to build and maintain such a force?

Definitely! :)

I really think it was more that trumpish demands that people made more annoyed at the tone than the content....so the talks started in earnest.
rtfm 1 | 63
17 Jul 2021 #58
Demands that countries contribute their fair share to an alliance they aigned up to? Sounds fair to me.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,959
17 Jul 2021 #59
I really believe that most countries are quite happy with Germany not meeting any military standards anymore!

If we would take money in the hand again....rebuild the Bundeswehr....spending more....getting more involved....they would start to fret again too....
OP GefreiterKania 11 | 1,482
17 Jul 2021 #60
they would start to fret again too...

PiS is buying F-35s, Turkish battle drones, and the newest Abrams tanks with Germany peaceful as a kitten. I am afraid to think what they would buy (and for how much) with a powerful Bundeswehr and AfD in power! They would get 250 tanks MONTHLY :D


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