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Which modern developments harm Poland?


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
14 Feb 2011 #1
Which modern developments, practices or phenomena in Poland or your home country do you regard as negative? Why? What is the alternative? For instance workaholism, Internet addiction, atomised families, environamental destruction, megabureacratic governments, etc.
jonni 16 | 2,485
14 Feb 2011 #2
Internet addiction

A few of us here should know about that. But the young seem to have very short attention spans nowadays.

atomised families

Without a dining table in the home even.

In the UK, the decline of pub culture and the growth of suburbia, everyone staying at home in insulated bubbles, driving to the mall. In Poland, gated estates.

But above all, television. Too much, too trashy.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
14 Feb 2011 #3
In America atomisation started when the youngster got his own TV set, then mum got a little portable to watch her soaps while working in the kitchen and other family members (if there were more) ditto... Originally the telly brought families together. in Poland relatives tell me that when they were one of the first in their village with a TV set, neighbours would come round with their chairs to sit on for DTV and Monday night Teatr Telewizji but even more so for Thursday night Kobra (murder mysteries) sessions.

Trashy TV in Poland? Quite! But what country would you hold up as a model of television excellence? Britain, the USA, France, Finland, Belarus? In the global era they all show tacky soaps, Jerry Springer type crap, reality shows, extreme sports, MTV, pûrn, etc., generously peppered with really stupid adverts.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,384
14 Feb 2011 #4
workaholism,

seems to be forced on some workers

Jerry Springer type crap

one doesn't have to watch it. the beauty of tv is choice.

reality shows,

i quite enjoy some of them

extreme sports,

a lot of skill involved. plus steel balls for some of those folk

MTV

plenty of choice

pûrn,

a little pûrn never harmed anyone.

in some places, example Wroclaw, there is no vision when it comes to architecture
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
14 Feb 2011 #5
Not every choice is a good thing when it infects immature or underdeveloped minds. Do you really thing a nine or 10-year-old finding out about 'love' on an Internet prn site is the best solution.

And the topic was the trashiness of much of TV. There is no question that there's plenty of choice. The question is: why do so many choose that which is cheap, tacky, trashy and gutter-level?

Who is the blame: parents, the school, the church, the media, peer pressure?
jonni 16 | 2,485
14 Feb 2011 #6
And the topic was the trashiness of much of TV. There is no question that there's plenty of choice. The question is: why do so many choose thta which is cheap, tacky, trashy and gutter-level?

Cheap to make and appealing to the lowest common denominator. Kind of bread and circuses.

I used to grumble about how bad Polish TV was compared to the UK, then ten years later, I go back to the UK for a couple of months and see that it's declined there even further.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
14 Feb 2011 #7
Which modern developments, practices or phenomena in Poland or your home country do you regard as negative? Why? What is the alternative? For instance workaholism, Internet addiction, atomised families, environamental destruction, megabureacratic governments, etc.

Pope John Paul II warned that the great danger facing the West, including Poland, after the fall of communism would be consumerism...All of the problems you mention are related to this...From what I read on the Forum, it seems that both native Poles and some diaspora Poles, with their mindlessly negative attitude toward the Church, reflect this trend.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,384
14 Feb 2011 #8
Do you really thing a nine or 10-year-old finding out about 'love' on an Internet prn site is the best solution.

your post seems to be directed at me.

you listed prn under tv trash. not internet.

any child watching tv after 9:00pm may see light prn.

and once again. it doesn't harm anyone.

And the topic was the trashiness of much of TV. There is no question that there's plenty of choice. The question is: why do so many choose that which is cheap, tacky, trashy and gutter-level?

i watch what i watch because i enjoy it.

the things you mention are only trash in your opinion, not mine.
jonni 16 | 2,485
14 Feb 2011 #9
Pope John Paul II warned

And what do you think his attitude to some of the racist stuff that appears on PF would be?
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
14 Feb 2011 #10
consumerism

I agree, consumerism, in its extreme is perverting people's idea of beauty, self esteem, freedom and reason.
Nothing specifically about Poland though.

Who doesn't want to live the dream:

"I'm just a regular Joe with a regular job.
I'm your average white suburbanite slob.
I like football and pûrno and books about war.
I've got an average house with a nice hardwood floor.
My wife and my job, my kids and my car.
My feet on my table and a Cuban cigar."

youtube.com/watch?v=UrgpZ0fUixs
Lenka 3 | 2,685
14 Feb 2011 #11
What I think is the worst? The rat race, the "always be first and the best" attitude, if you're not original and popular than you're nothing...Many things...Mostly the attitude that you have to be Someone.
jonni 16 | 2,485
14 Feb 2011 #12
I agree, consumerism, in its extreme is perverting people's idea of beauty, self esteem, freedom and reason.
Nothing specifically about Poland though.

Yes. Check out the Amish/Plain People stuff on another thread. They get by without all that crap and are probably happier and much richer in themselves for it.

Nothing specifically about Poland though.

I was talking to the teenage son of a diplomat in Warsaw not long ago. He'd attended posh private schools around the world. He said the rich kids in Warsaw were by far the most materialistic he'd ever come across, talking only about what they or their parents owned.

Nevertheless, a bank in Poland (a well known one) did a very private survey of their richest 10% of clients a few years ago and were surprised that over half of them hadn't been abroad, even for a holiday, in the past 10 years and tended to drive mid-range cars.
Wroclaw Boy
14 Feb 2011 #13
Which modern developments harm Poland?

You ya (unt
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
14 Feb 2011 #14
Check out the Amish/Plain People stuff on another thread.

Which one?
i think that's a bit of an extreme too, I shouldn't really knock it till I've tried it.
I think life has a lot to do with balance, do stupid things but balance it out with something semisensible ;p

rich kids

I have met many rich secondary school kids and there is a tendency for them to be sycophants.

over half of them hadn't been abroad, even for a holiday, in the past 10 years

? That's odd, I wonder why, any ideas? working too much?

tended to drive mid-range cars.

I tend to agree, from personal experience.
Many of the (mentally) poorest people I know in Europe tend to wear the trendiest gear, drive flashy looking sports cars (but only flashy looking not actual sports cars) and have the latest mobile ringtones.

I guess people with cash don't need to prove themselves.
Lenka 3 | 2,685
14 Feb 2011 #15
Who is the blame: parents, the school, the church, the media, peer pressure?

Parents.Who else?Why the school or the church?

Check out the Amish/Plain People stuff on another thread. They get by without all that crap and are probably happier and much richer in themselves for it.

I agree but I wouldn't give up my PC :)

Nevertheless, a bank in Poland (a well known one) did a very private survey of their richest 10% of clients a few years ago and were surprised that over half of them hadn't been abroad, even for a holiday, in the past 10 years and tended to drive mid-range cars.

I always thought that REALLY rich ppl don't show off.They have big money but they don't have to brag about it-they know what they have.

There is beautiful word in Polish:nowobogaccy (nem money)-that's the kind of ppl that always talks abot what they have.
jonni 16 | 2,485
14 Feb 2011 #16
Which one?

Bizarrely, the one about Formula1.

? That's odd, I wonder why, any ideas? working too much?

The guy who told me (a marketing bod) said that they suspected it was to do with the fact that some of their richest clients were farmers who'd got into businesses like making breezeblocks and cement rendering etc, and were the type of people who were naturally frugal, very family orientated, not particularly inquisitive about life outside their immediate sphere of interest and not ones for holidays or frivolous spending etc.

Perhaps not a very scientific analysis, but an interesting thought.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
14 Feb 2011 #17
Parents.Who else?

The media?

I agree but I wouldn't give up my PC :)

Or buttons... :)

There is beautiful word in Polish:nowobogaccy (nem money)-that's the kind of ppl that always talks abot what they have.

We say "Nouveau riche", the opposite being "Old money".

Bizarrely, the one about Formula1.

Hahaha, I have some reading to do :)

Perhaps not a very scientific analysis, but an interesting thought.

Curious alright.
Wroclaw Boy
14 Feb 2011 #18
There is beautiful word in Polish:nowobogaccy (nem money)-that's the kind of ppl that always talks abot what they have.

Ive met lots of them in Poland, all the talk but still living in a small flat with a mediocre car. It is what it is, thats one of the reason ive come to despise capitalism.
JaneDoe 5 | 114
14 Feb 2011 #19
all the talk but still living in a small flat with a mediocre car.

Because rich people with class don't brag about it.
grubas 12 | 1,390
14 Feb 2011 #20
Ive met lots of them in Poland, all the talk but still living in a small flat with a mediocre car. It is what it is, thats one of the reason ive come to despise capitalism.

What you don't understand is that during "communism " times it was (and still is) much better for you not to show off.I know a guy easily worth 10 milions PLN and he is driving 95 VW Passat and when you ask him how is he doing he will tell you that he is not doing good at all.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
14 Feb 2011 #21
people with class don't brag

I think that's a general rule, not only the rich can afford :)
jonni 16 | 2,485
14 Feb 2011 #22
Because rich people with class don't brag about it.

Very true. Though bragging nouveau riche or not, few of us decline invitations from multi-millionaires.
alexw68
14 Feb 2011 #23
Because rich people with class don't brag about it.

Think I might have spotted an oxymoron there. Depends how you define rich, of course...
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
14 Feb 2011 #24
One of the main reasons for the problem is the decline of consensus. Atomisaiton of the family has developed along with the polarisation of society. Used to be in the USA that parents, school and Church (many if not most PolAms attended Catholic schools) were all on the same team rearing schoolchildren. So were neighbrs and family friends. If a parent was called into school because Johnny had done something stupid, little Johnny would 'sorely' regret it. He was not only grounded, depriced of TV and pocket money that week but may well have been in for a good thrashing. Now the parent starts badmouthing the teahcer, apparently siding with the kid. But isn't it really out of some parental guilt feeling that he/she isn't devoting enough time to he youngster? He/sge may be driving the kid to practice and showring him with gadgets and fashion items, but he is not giving of himself and sees this as an opportuntiy to redeem himself. What do you think?

If you disagree with that assessment, what is yours? Why has the child-rearing consensus collapsed?
sascha 1 | 826
14 Feb 2011 #25
Atomisaiton of the family has developed along with the polarisation of society

Welcome to the EU/capitalizm ;D

So were neighbrs and family friends. If a parent was called into school because Johnny had done something stupid, little Johnny would 'sorely' regret it. He was not only grounded, depriced of TV and pocket money that week but may well have been in for a good thrashing.

Good old times. They will never come back.
Now parents have to psychologists, sponsors....and of course for the kiddy only the best.
My guess is that this trend is not to stop. Unfortunately. Consequences of that we will probably not experience... ;-)
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
14 Feb 2011 #26
He was not only grounded, depriced of TV and pocket money that week but may well have been in for a good thrashing.

Which century are we talking about again?

Now the parent starts badmouthing the teahcer, apparently siding with the kid.

Are we talking about Poland or where you are?

If you disagree with that assessment, what is yours? Why has the child-rearing consensus collapsed?

I don't think it has collapsed.
Yes, there has always been a minority that have literally paid for their child's affections but that is not knew and not the norm.
Lenka 3 | 2,685
14 Feb 2011 #27
The media?

Media give opportunities but it's parents job to raise their children.

What you don't understand is that during "communism " times it was (and still is) much better for you not to show off.I know a guy easily worth 10 milions PLN and he is driving 95 VW Passat and when you ask him how is he doing he will tell you that he is not doing good at all.

I think it's not that.Ppl with class don't show off and it has nothing to do with communism-it was always a
faux pas to be flashy.

We say "Nouveau riche"

We have nuworysze but it's about ppl who were promoted to the upper class(by money or education) but are still not accepted there.The word nowobogaccy means ppl that are wealthy but stupid and with bad taste.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
14 Feb 2011 #28
Are we talking about Poland or where you are?

Both, probably.

I've heard a fair few shocking stories recently about parents - it seems that Poland is much worse than the UK/Ireland when it comes to directly attempting to manipulate teachers.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
14 Feb 2011 #29
I know a teacher here and one of the kids fell and chipped his teeth, the teacher was scared, especially when the father of the chipped toothed young fella came in to speak to her.

He came to apologise about his child's disruptive behaviour.

Although that thread on Polish cheating is interesting.
isthatu2 4 | 2,703
15 Feb 2011 #30
In Poland, gated estates.

I stayed with someone in one of these in Warsaw,all the householders hated it,called it "the ghetto".....walls and gates suddenly appearing round your previously pretty well crime free neighbourhood,thats gotta suck.

lols,The Amish,the perfect example of blind religious nonsense. Must live by the Bible but are Forbiden to read the Bible,which they would have a job doing as none of them speak the origional high german its written in.

They arnt allowed electric power into their homes so they have mobile hand set phones with the power source in a shed :)
Mind you,say what you will,most of them come back after that rumspringger thing.


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