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Should Poland leave the EU institution?


delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
23 Aug 2011 #31
Poland should emulate Norway, Iceland, Switzerland.

Emulate Norway? You mean - pay almost a billion Euro each year to the EU for the privilege of taking part in EU agreements, yet have no voice in the European institutions? That doesn't seem particularly sensible...

Emulate Switzerland? You mean - accept vast amounts of EU law, not have to pay - but still have to sign up to lots of treaties and agreements that makes them almost an EU member anyway? Don't forget what happened with Schengen and Dublin - failure to ratify both meant the door being slammed in their face and all the other treaties being cancelled.

Emulate Iceland? You mean - suffer huge financial instability without anyone to help you out - and have to resort to the Russians to help?

The longer Poland stays in EU, Poland will eventually lose it's sovereignty.

The EU doesn't work that way. Ultimately, countries can repeal the Act of Accession at any time they want - in fact, Lisbon has a formal exit mechanism for the first time.

Forget EU.

Yay, we can go back to the era of 4-6 hour waits on the border, work permits needed, limits on imports and more!

As a remainder 20% of Poles voted against Poland accession to the EU.

4 out of every 5 voted for the EU, then.

So, US-Americans, Brits and a Serb discuss if Poland should leave the EU. Haha...

What's exceptionally funny is watching Americans discuss the EU - most of them haven't got a clue about how it actually works in practice.
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
23 Aug 2011 #32
delphiandomine wrote:

What's exceptionally funny is watching Americans discuss the EU - most of them haven't got a clue about how it actually works in practice.

however, as an american, the EU sure seems like a good example of why an overly socialized system simply won't work. some things need to be socialized but not your entire platform. asking a bunch of countries that have been killing each other for centuries to go head first into an institution such as this and then relying on just a few strong ones to foot the bill......not cool.

back on topic, yeah....i find it difficult for any poles to complain about the EU with all the money their country has and continues to receive from it.
David_18 68 | 982
23 Aug 2011 #33
Poland should stay, but it should relax and stepp down from the international politics for 20-30 years or so.

The czechs are a good example. They are quite and they still enjoy economical growth.

Right now Poland is growing to fast in the Political arena and is only pissing other countires of by its succes story.
OP Ironside 50 | 10,933
23 Aug 2011 #34
Right now Poland is growing to fast in the Political arena and is only pissing other countires of by its succes story.

What are you talking about ?
[quote=FUZZYWICKETS]i find it difficult for any poles to complain about the EU with all the money their country has and continues to receive from it.

Thank you to our American for expressing his view on the subject.
sascha 1 | 826
23 Aug 2011 #35
back on topic, yeah....i find it difficult for any poles to complain about the EU with all the money their country has and continues to receive from it.

the point is not in receiving, much more important is where it is ending up. ;)
OP Ironside 50 | 10,933
19 Sep 2011 #36
Present EU is based on agreement between France and Germany with few perks for international businesses and maybe few more for governments to brag about.

It cannot survive in the present form. The EU should be rethought, reshaped and renegotiated. It cannot continue on neocolonialism formula for long.
peterweg 37 | 2,320
19 Sep 2011 #37
an institution such as this and then relying on just a few strong ones to foot the bill......not cool.

How is that different from the US, a union of states, much like the EU? New Yorkers etc. are paying paying for the poor states.
KingAthelstan 9 | 142
19 Sep 2011 #38
what will happen to all the Poles in the UK if you leave?
OP Ironside 50 | 10,933
19 Sep 2011 #39
You can take care of them if you really really care....
KingAthelstan 9 | 142
19 Sep 2011 #40
they will no longer have a legal right to work here and will have apply for work permits, after which only a fraction (20% at a guess) would be granted.
OP Ironside 50 | 10,933
19 Sep 2011 #41
really ?don't say, you are very bright today revokenice ! Did you forget about your medications ?
KingAthelstan 9 | 142
19 Sep 2011 #42
Ironside did you name yourself after the English King Edmund Ironside?
peterweg 37 | 2,320
19 Sep 2011 #43
hey will no longer have a legal right to work here and will have apply for work permits, after which only a fraction (20% at a guess) would be granted.

Nope, as part of the EEA, EU citizens can live and work in any EEA country. The UK would of course re-join the EEA.

secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/European_Economic_Area#Rights_and_obligations
Malopolanin 3 | 133
19 Sep 2011 #44
We should leave EU and sign 'free trade area' deals with as many coutries as we can especially with ASEAN and NAFTA. Even being part of EFTA would be much better than being part of EU.
Happymeal 7 | 35
19 Sep 2011 #45
You know what would be an interesting experiment if Poles on this forum living in Poland lived in another country in the EU or outside the EU for at least a year to get a perspective from the OUTSIDE! Sometimes you become none impartial and blinded by your own thoughts and responses. If anyone on this thread thinks that Poland did not benefit from joining the EU needs to give their head a shack. I see and hear and watch the political gaf’s coming from the government figures and it amazes me they are in power. Mind this happens everywhere but not to the same extent as it would seem from Poland. The problem I see if the people trying to make the changes still think like it was 30 years ago and we all know it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks. YES they have the right idea and everyone would admit that Poland and Poles try there hardest at everything they do and will not give up without a fight. Poland needs young people in politics with fresh ideas and energy that is not spun by thinking constantly in the past. The part which is so frustrating and down right annoying is reading the stubbornness on some of the topics in this post, reminds me of this thread….

The Blame Game (Have you ever noticed that a Polish person is never wrong!?)
The Blame Game (Have you ever noticed that a Polish person is never wrong!?)

and for all those who like to play the statistics games, please back it up with an actual government site, respected news outlet, Wiki article (which was not created yesterday), something. You know they say 60% of statistics are made up on the spot ….
Sebastian 6 | 108
19 Sep 2011 #46
Good post! A post of reason.
pawian 176 | 14,823
19 Sep 2011 #47
Not really. It lacks logical connection between his/her thoughts. E.g. these two sentences juxtaposed to each other are rather misleading about OP`s real intentions:

If anyone on this thread thinks that Poland did not benefit from joining the EU needs to give their head a shack. I see and hear and watch the political gaf's coming from the government figures and it amazes me they are in power.

The rest is a chaotic combination of mixed ideas too. Hard to read.
ShAlEyNsTfOh 4 | 161
20 Sep 2011 #48
in short, YES.

and Canada should become communist.
Palivec - | 380
20 Sep 2011 #49
Currently the EU is divided into three blocks. The founding members, the Mediterranean and the former Commie countries. The founding members, which interestingly are the successor states of the Frankish empire of Charlemagne, share the same view on matters such as integration, economy, fiscal policy and so on. The Mediterranean countries are for more integration too, but their economic and fiscal traditions are different. The former Commie countries, especially Poland and the former countries of Austria-Hungary, share the economic and fiscal policies of the founding members, but aren't ready for more integration.
OP Ironside 50 | 10,933
20 Sep 2011 #50
Currently the EU is divided into three blocks.

Currently the EU have only one bloc - Germany and France, the rest is working on the fringes of EU. They are not organized at all.

Former Warsaw Pact countries are playing a role of neocolonies.
sascha 1 | 826
20 Sep 2011 #51
agreed, unfortunately. i mean now those 2 behave in europe like colonial forces....to their misfortune that is a short calculation, but hey, i/we are not politicians.

one thing is for sure, when germanics loose the temper or too much money in eu, the show is over.
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
20 Sep 2011 #52
What do you think about Poland leaving EU? Seems that UK will do it first, should Poland leave that institution ?
Discus!

No, It should not. Economically speaking, it is far more beneficial for them to stay inside the EU. I doubt the UK will leave, the last time the Conservatives had a big row over Europe, Labour made hay of it and got into power for 13 years. Because of his pro European stance, Ken Clarke never got to be the leader of the Tories-which meant that the Conservatives never used their best man to lead them and their chances were squandered.

The founding members, which interestingly are the successor states of the Frankish empire of Charlemagne

Are you self medicating by any chance?

The EU is a community of nations created to prevent future European wars-that was its founding purpose, it has nothing to do with a semi literate barbarian who took on Christianity out of political expediency.
Malopolanin 3 | 133
20 Sep 2011 #53
No, It should not. Economically speaking, it is far more beneficial for them to stay inside the EU.

GDP growth in EU is higher than anywhere in the world!
legend 3 | 664
20 Sep 2011 #54
EU = 4th Reich.

France inside, Poland inside, Italy, and much more.
peterweg 37 | 2,320
20 Sep 2011 #55
re you self medicating by any chance?

Its rich coming from a Russian, a country who apparently would like to get its empire back. The former occupied nations are in the EU and Nato get keep out of the grip of the Russians (and Serbs), anything rather than that.
pawian 176 | 14,823
20 Sep 2011 #56
=Ironside]Currently the EU have only one bloc - Germany and France, the rest is working on the fringes of EU.

It is natural - these two countries` economies play the biggest role on the continent.

If Poland was as powerful as Germany, would you agree to share power with the weaker rest?
I bet you wouldn`t.
Don`t accuse strong ones of being selfish neocolonialists. One day strong Poland will do the same.

The fact that the Central European countries are members of the EU has helped them eliminate any trade barriers with Western European countries and thus reduce the operating costs of manufacturing companies exporting to Western Europe. In addition to this, EU membership has allowed many of the regions within Central Europe to benefit from EU regional development aid in the form of grants for companies setting up operations in these countries.

siteselection.com/issues/2010/jul/Eastern-Europe.cfm
Seanus 15 | 19,706
20 Sep 2011 #57
Poland would stand to lose a fair bit of trade through leaving the EU though other arrangements exist.
sascha 1 | 826
20 Sep 2011 #58
If Poland was as powerful as Germany, would you agree to share power with the weaker rest?
I bet you wouldn`t.
Don`t accuse strong ones of being selfish neocolonialists.

i see that you prefer darwins view of the world. unfortunately we are not animals anymore. ;) still we share 98% of the apes genom. ;)

this u can only say if you are in a safe position. ask the people who do not have that. they will argue like ironside. furthermore the ideology of the eu is exactly the opposite of the current actions. that was/is one of its goals.

Poland would stand to lose a fair bit of trade through leaving the EU though other arrangements exist.

an eastern europe trading/military union is the alternative with the brics on the top ;)
wielki pan 2 | 250
20 Sep 2011 #59
Poland would stand to lose a fair bit of trade through leaving the EU though other arrangements exist.

trade in what? China is the new player in this field who will trade in anything. The big issue is that Poland will have to repay its debts and thats the catch 22 situation, this would leave Poland bankrupt and a new Greece.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
20 Sep 2011 #60
China is not a new player at all. Poland could still carve out a bilateral agreement with China after leaving the EU.


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