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The Iran war and Poland


Bobko  28 | 2568
22 Jun 2025   #511
Interesting point.

There's an unprecedented (in the sense that no one else comes close) blurring between the American and Israeli governments.

Forget about Netanyahu addressing a joint session of Congress - uninvited. Forget about AIPAC - being a de facto arm of the RNC, to the same extent as CPAC.

Think about the crazy situation with dual nationals. In both parties.

On the DNC side you have people like Rahm Emanuel - whose family is deeply involved in Israeli politics going back to the foundation of the state.

On the RNC side you have people like Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, etc - that literally combine their work advising the US government with paying jobs at Israeli think tanks.

What the hell is going on here? Does this not seem ridiculous to you?
AntV  3 | 727
22 Jun 2025   #512
close the Strait of Hormuz

IMO, this is more important to America than Israel-not saying Israel isn't important to America, just less important.
AntV  3 | 727
22 Jun 2025   #513
Think about the crazy situation with dual nationals. In both parties

Very good point. I'm mot sure it's unprecedented, but very good point nonetheless.

It concerns me to a degree. I think you may be giving them more weight than they actually have. Certainly Wolfowitz and Perle had out-sized influence during the Dubja Bush years. I think those types have less sway nowadays-Neocons are more the red-headed stepchild.

Of course, you'll bring up Jared. To which I'll respond you need to mind your own damn business. 😀
Bobko  28 | 2568
22 Jun 2025   #514
To which I'll respond you need to mind your own damn business.

I decided not to bring up Jared, because Trump allegedly hates him, and is disappointed with Ivanka, that she married this quiet nerd.

Trump supposedly said that giving Jared and Ivanka access to the WH was one of the biggest mistakes of the first term.

No wonder - since they're both essentially Democrats. They were never gonna be comfortable with the red meat he was tossing into the cage.
OP jon357  73 | 24517
22 Jun 2025   #515
Jared

Up to no good in Albania apparently.
Novichok  6 | 9564
22 Jun 2025   #516
These type of events have a way of rallying populations around its leaders.

In 1945, Japs rallied around their leaders but we had a way to change this relationship.

Iran's parliament has voted to close the Strait of Hormuz,

Iran holds world hostage: Iranian to SHUT Strait of Hormuz closing off 20 per cent of global oil and gas

Hey, Euros, it's your oil. We have plenty of our own.
Torq  16 | 1511
22 Jun 2025   #517
Iran holds world hostage

Suddenly the idea of switching to electric/hydrogen cars doesn't seem so ridiculous after all.
OP jon357  73 | 24517
22 Jun 2025   #518
switching to electric/hydrogen cars doesn't seem so ridiculous after all.

Long overdue.

Iran did say that they "may" block the straits, however they are aware of course that this would be a major escalation and likely to be very hard for them to achieve.

And of course Pan Ryszard has forgotten about the Exxon and Oxy oil that goes that way.
Miloslaw  25 | 5481
22 Jun 2025   #519
At about 8pm eastern time, Trump put out a message on his Truth Social website saying that "very successful" strikes had been carried out on targets "including Fordow, Natanz, and Esfahan".

I told you this was going to happen 4 hours before your post.
Novichok  6 | 9564
22 Jun 2025   #520
I have a piece of advice for Iran...

Dear Mr. Ayatollah,

Next time Trump says "Iran will not have nukes", just pack all that nuke stuff up and send to him.

Never, ever make snide remarks, use the middle finger, or insult the man in any way.

Now you know that doing it to a guy who has 21 B-2s is a short-lived pleasure.

PS: Don't count on China or Russia. They have their own problems and we are not afraid of them.

AntV  3 | 727
22 Jun 2025   #521
Trump supposedly said that giving Jared and Ivanka access to the WH was one of the biggest mistakes of the first term.

How do you know this stuff? What circles do you mix with in Manhattan?

nypost.com/2025/06/22/world-news/kremlin-warns-that-other-nations-ready-to-give-iran-nukes-dangerous-escalation-has-begun/

"Moscow warned Sunday that several nations are prepared to supply Tehran with nuclear weapons. "

Hmmm...this could be exactly what Ukraine has been waiting for. If Moscow arms Tehran with nukes, what will America slide to the Ukes?
betamorons
22 Jun 2025   #522
Too many submissive, beta male morons on this board who cannot think for themselves. If Poles in 1939 were as submissive and stupid as you are, there would be no Poland on the map today.
AntV  3 | 727
22 Jun 2025   #523
@betamorons

That's right, Poland beat back to Nazi aggressors then kicked the Russian bear in the nuts in '39.
betamorons
22 Jun 2025   #524
@AntV
Agreed. What I meant is that a beta moron listens to what a moron in power says without adding a brain cell to it. People and nations have their own pride, just like Poland did back in the WW2. Just because a bullying world moron says something, it doesn't mean people should listen and comply.
AntV  3 | 727
22 Jun 2025   #525
@betamorons

And just because someone agrees with a bullying world moron doesn't one is a beta moron. One may think the bullying world moron has a valid and cogent reason for doing what he does, even though he may be a bullying world moron.

Plus, there is the possibility, if not significant probability, that the non-beta moron is misinterpreting or misconstruing the bully world moron as actually being a bully and a moron. The moron may actually be the non-beta moron.
Bobko  28 | 2568
22 Jun 2025   #526
Moscow warned Sunday that several nations are prepared to supply Tehran with nuclear weapons

Hopefully a bluff.

A sure fire way to plunge the world into death.

Given that the guy that said this is Dmitry Medvedev - I wouldn't worry too much.

That guy announces he will nuke somebody every weekend.

If it was Putin that said it - that would be a different matter.
AntV  3 | 727
22 Jun 2025   #527
That guy announces he will nuke somebody every weekend.

🤣

- I wouldn't worry too much.

OK. I'll just worry a little bit.

You'd have to think that Putin and his close advisors would know that doing such would threaten the incremental but steady gains in Ukraine.
Barney  19 | 1813
22 Jun 2025   #528
told you this was going to happen

The world and his wife knew America was going to declare war on Iran with a an illegal attack after letting their puppet regime off the leash. It's what America does and has been doing for 200 years but who knows where this ends. There is something perverse about a society driven by the need to accumulate wealth with no underlying philosophy or morals. Somewhere that exists simply to exploit the domestic and terrorise the foreign to further enrich sociopathic billionaires.
Barney  19 | 1813
22 Jun 2025   #529
his close advisors

He has advisers not courtiers. The message is get yourself a bomb and get it quick. Can't wait for a Latin American bomb.
Bobko  28 | 2568
22 Jun 2025   #530
You'd have to think that Putin and his close advisors would know that doing such would threaten the incremental but steady gains in Ukraine.

Yesterday, when a journalist asked Putin why he was not taking a more active approach to the situation in Iran, he replied:

"We have two million of our former compatriots living in Israel. These are people that speak Russian, and identify with our country. We have to be cognizant of this."

To me - that was like a big flushing down of Iran down the toilet. He couldn't say it any worse.

He could have said - we are busy with Ukraine (and this would have been true). He could have said what the Chinese said, and say - "We don't want to add fuel to the fire". Instead he said what he said.

So no, don't worry that Putin will give Iran nukes. Let alone the fact that Putin has spent twenty years saying Iran cannot have nukes.

What I hope for in Iran is naive and romantic, it's never gonna happen. Maybe it's for the best.
AntV  3 | 727
22 Jun 2025   #531
@Barney
Help me out, I'm not sure what you mean.

What I hope for in Iran is naive and romantic

Pre tel, this naive and romantic vision. I am 99.8% sure I'll dislike/disagree with it, but 100% sure I'll enjoy your rhapsodic prose and romantic idealism
Barney  19 | 1813
22 Jun 2025   #532
@AntV
Trump doesn't have advisors. The signal he has sent is without a bomb you are a target.
AntV  3 | 727
22 Jun 2025   #533
.@Barney
Oh, the he I was speaking about is Putin.
Barney  19 | 1813
22 Jun 2025   #534
@Bobko
He also said that where there are Russian boots that is Russia. If America invades which is more likely now, Russian intelligence will play a major part for Iran just as it did during American sponsored and failed coup in Turkey. The chances of American invasion were small as their second option is fighting their wars in other peoples countries. Their first option is always to find mercenaries to do their fighting.

@Antv
Putin has advisors despite the optics of publically dressing down the security chief
Bobko  28 | 2568
22 Jun 2025   #535
I am 99.8% sure I'll dislike/disagree with it

Obviously you would!

What I would want - obviously - is a forceful Russian intervention. Cold War style. That shows America it can't bomb whoever it wants willy-nilly, whenever it decides. That puts the bully on the backfoot.

Obviously - this cannot happen. Russia is hopelessly mired in Ukraine. Every single piece of weaponry and ammunition MUST go to the front. There cannot be any discussion about helping anybody else - whether its Armenia or Iran. We're at the serious risk of a big embarrassment here in Ukraine, so everything else is kinda peripheral (at least for the time being). In the same way it was for commanders during WW2 debating about opening new fronts...

Furthermore - we are just not so close with Iran. It's been a marriage of desperation. There's a lot of things we don't like about them - first and foremost their overt Islamism, with which our country has had problems in our Caucasus regions as recently as the early 2000s.

We are much, much, much more close to Israel. Our exiled oligarchs, our pop stars, and war dissidents - most of them are in Israel. They are broadcasting daily on Twitter and elsewhere what ******** we are for being neutral. There are millions and millions of people in Russia, that have relatives - however distant - living in Israel. Not so with Iran.

So the Cold War style showdown I want - its never gonna happen. And if it did - its probably terrible for my country and the world. Hence - "romantic and naive".

Doesn't mean I can't rant. Also doesn't mean you are going to win in Iran.
AntV  3 | 727
22 Jun 2025   #536
@Bobko

Interesting enough, I too don't want us the bomb whoever we want whenever we want...remember I'm an American Catholic (notice I didn't say a Carholic American). I'm not certain bombing the Iranian nuke sights were the right thing to do i'm still thinking it through.

Where we disagree is the bully thing. I don't think we act as a bully, we act like all other countries: to further our interests. The difference is our economic and military power projects more boldly which may give off the patina of bullying.

I'll go even further and say that more times than not our projection has a residual effect that benefits others-obviously not all benefit, but most do.

But then again, maybe I'm blinded by the glare of Old Faithful and am more naive than your cold war style wishes.
Miloslaw  25 | 5481
22 Jun 2025   #537
This is a report from the left wing ITV in the UK that despite their bias the true story still comes across.
The world thanks Trump and America for what they have done!
Iran is £ucked! They cannot retaliate in any useful way.


Bobko  28 | 2568
22 Jun 2025   #538
has a residual effect that benefits others

These residual effects can also be quite destructive.

Seemingly, how could the attack on the twin towers affect people living in the former Soviet Union?

But it did, and in major ways. America's need for our airspace and other forms of cooperation in enabling the mission in Afghanistan - meant it closed its eyes to practically everything it had cared so much about throughout the 1990s.

Suddenly, autocrats like Islam Karimov (Uzbekistan) or Nursultan Nazarbayev (Kazakhstan) or Ilham Aliev (Azerbaijan), were rebranded by the State Department from "autocrats" to "valued allies".

When America goes to war, it stops caring about everything else. All efforts go towards "ensuring the safety of our boys". If this means collaborating with dictators to be able to fuel your jets at their airports - it's a price you are always willing to pay. Regardless of the corrosive after effects of the patina of legitimacy that you provide these tinpot dictators.

So the knock on effects can be beneficial, but they can also be unpredictably bad - and bite you in the ass in a way you didn't expect. When some Central Asian dictator represses his homegrown Islamists to such an extent, that they decide to take their franchise global.

The main knock on effects of Iraq and Afghanistan seem to be massive refugee flows and the rise of the Islamic State.
Barney  19 | 1813
22 Jun 2025   #539
These are people that speak Russian, and identify with our country. We have to be cognizant of this."

Didn't stop him bombing Ukraine
Joker  2 | 2470
22 Jun 2025   #540
You have an old man that is on tape having sex with children, hence he is an expert at slobbering over Mossad penis,

You're not sharing info, you're spreading garbage tier fake news like it's gospel. Zero evidence, zero credibility, just rage-bait wrapped in TDS conspiracy. If you had anything real, it wouldn't be rotting in some fringe thread next to cartoon level Mossad fantasies.

Something as serious as that really does need acting on if true or partially true. Even as things stand, it needs independently investigating.

Funny, I remember you wetting yourself over Stormy Daniels like it was the smoking gun! Then she ended up paying him. Peak clown show. Hope the refund came with tissues. Hahahahaha


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