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Why is Poland so hostile against Germany? Do they realize how their reparations rubbish damages relations?


gumishu 11 | 5,493
9 Feb 2020 #121
We see USA as bigger threat than russia.

because? because America imposes tariffs on German goods that are competetive because of the euro currency? in my opinion if you see America as a threat then you see Liberty as a threat - but that's just my opinion

I understand your point - but the thing is the point shows that you show little to no solidarity - and then you demand solidarity from other member states by demanding of them to take immigrants quota - isn't NATO about solidarity (I personally believe German elites would want to leave NATO if it wasn't for bad reception it would have among it's Western European partners )
OP Weimarer 8 | 415
9 Feb 2020 #122
@mafketis
We both fought the turks and kicked them out of europe.

@gumishu

I dont want migrant quota, i want them all out. Im sure poland would help us regarding that, with deportation, aircrafts and ships.

That said, in Germany we have the feeling evryone wants something from us, but when we need help, we always stand alone. Thats a feelimg deeply embedded in our collective thinking.

When somewhere is desaster, we always help. When we had large floods, nobody was here to help us.
gumishu 11 | 5,493
9 Feb 2020 #123
the feeling evryone wants something from us, but when we need help, we always stand alone.

I actually understand it - I think the point is you don't realize how much Germany benefited from the common currency - you would probably changed your view a bit then
OP Weimarer 8 | 415
9 Feb 2020 #124
@gumishu
Germany did not want the common currency. It was forced on us from France. Mitterand wanted that Germany gives up its Deutsche Mark or France would have said no to our reunion.

And one thing, the german people do not profit from €. Evrything costs more, people cant save money. Do you think Germans profit from giant export surplus? Its all going in pockets of small elite.
Ironside 49 | 10,680
9 Feb 2020 #125
we called them just snitches.

how it goes - snitches end up in ditches? Well, by now we know that is not true. They end up in high places. They are a precious commodity lol!

looks Balkan to me.

Don't you know that tribes that constitute Germans nowadays were at the time the biggest mix of all kinds of people in this part of Europe?

I think you are influenced by Nazis propaganda from the past, not by what the Germans really look like.
Crow 139 | 8,379
9 Feb 2020 #126
Germany is country of oblivion. Poland is country of the future.
Ironside 49 | 10,680
9 Feb 2020 #127
Serbia is an asylum for insane mono-maniacs.
gumishu 11 | 5,493
9 Feb 2020 #129
Its all going in pockets of small elite.

that's what I thought - this is one thing the current Polish government wants to tackle: the exploitation of farmers and workers by the big capital - I know, I know it sounds a bit bolshevik - but I think it is achieveable in much better ways than bolshevism (i.e through state ownership of everything or forced collectivisation)

Serbia is an asylum for insane mono-maniacs.

do jugde Serbia by one Crow heh ;)
Ironside 49 | 10,680
9 Feb 2020 #130
this is one thing the current Polish government wants to tackle

The current Polish gov is unable to tackle anything. They are inefficient and too bulky.
Spike31 2 | 1,968
9 Feb 2020 #131
German nationalists have no issue with Poland either. Maybe in Future there can be cooperation?

We could only use you as a tool but forget about fraternity between us.
Ironside 49 | 10,680
9 Feb 2020 #132
Hey stick to programming, don't make any comments as if you were a representative of the Polish people. Watch out for the celling you ego might hit it.

I'm cool to be friends with anyone that want to be my friend. Key?
delphiandomine 85 | 18,262
9 Feb 2020 #133
in my opinion if you see America as a threat then you see Liberty as a threat

America doesn't have allies, it has interests. If you follow that rule, America is perfectly fine, but no nation should ever rely wholly on the Americans.

I personally believe German elites would want to leave NATO

I wouldn't say leave, but I think there's a definite appetite among Germans for a NATO that's less dominated by the US and more about European partnerships. Makes sense, especially as the US is putting themselves first now.
Spike31 2 | 1,968
9 Feb 2020 #134
Hey stick to programming, don't make any comments as if you were a reperstaitives of the Polish people

I speak for myself and for a group on Polish national-conservatists with who I cooperate on various internet projects.

I'm cool to be friends with anyone that want to be my friend. Key?

And I'm very selective when picking new friends.
Ironside 49 | 10,680
9 Feb 2020 #135
America doesn't have allies, it has interests...., but no nation should ever rely wholly on the Americans.

Ditto! I couldn't put it better myself.
kaprys 3 | 2,484
9 Feb 2020 #136
@Ironside
I'm not influenced by anything. I'm talking about my observations. People travel and meet foreigners, you know.
As I said -a mixture of different European traits.
This guy's family is from Silesia as he stated so that already gives place to people of Germanic, Polish and Bohemian origin. He mentions some 'Danish' dna so it could be any other group of people who at some point migrated or invaded Poland -Swedish Deluge, the Dutch, the Scottish and as for the other parent's origins it might have been influenced by the Turkish in fact - the Ottoman Empire were far more present near Austria than in Poland.

But again from all the people I have met he mostly reminds me of the Balkans.
Assuming it's actually his photo.

And no one puts gel on their eyebrows.
Spike31 2 | 1,968
9 Feb 2020 #137
America doesn't have allies, it has interests

Same as Britain. That's a very healthy attitude. Konfederacja wants to introduce this type of politics in Poland. Multi-vector politics (with some exceptions for trusted allies like Hungary)
Torq 32 | 2,916
9 Feb 2020 #138
tribes that constitute Germans nowadays were at the time the biggest mix of all kinds of people in this part of Europe

Exactly. That's why I didn't understand what Weimi meant by "pure German".

Konfederacja

You seem to know quite a lot about, Konfederacja, Spike. How would you comment on the alleged ties of this party to Putin's Russia. Is there a grain of truth in what people say, or is it just PiS spreading propaganda against Konfederacja whom they see as their rivals on the right side of political scene?

@Weimi

As much as you dislike and distrust Poland, you have to realise that PiS, despite their occasional anti-German rhetoric, is actually trying to imitate Germany from the 1950s-1960s. You must have heard of ordoliberalism - it's your German invention. In Poland, one of the most notable representatives of ordoliberalism was Krzysztof Dzierżawski, and the political party that bases their economic program on Dzierżawski's thought is Jarosław Gowin's Polska Razem/Porozumienie Gowina - a party that forms the current government together with PiS and Solidarna Polska (Gowin is Deputy Prime Minister). When you look at what PiS is doing in economy (free market, but with goverment supervision and strong welfare-state elements), administration, infrastructure, and even the infamous court reform (it was supposed to be based on German model). When you take into account the attitude of the current Polish government towards immigration/refugees or the close EU integration, you will notice how similar they are to AfD in these aspects. From your point of view, Poland should be considered a valuable ally really, that's why I didn't understand your earlier outbursts against Poland, but your PMs increased my understanding ;)

If PiS could only be more reasonable and patient in their reforms, and more diplomatic on the international stage, I might even considering supporting them. As it is, however, perfect government would be the Christian-Democratic Koalicja Polska (PSL, Kukiz) in alliance with Prawica Rzeczypospolitej, Porozumienie Gowina, and more patriotic/Catholic/ordoliberal elements of PO and Konfederacja (I'm quite sure there are valuable people in these parties). The first step will be the victory of Władysław Kosiniak-Kamysz in presidential elections in May - we might then advance from Germany in 50s-60, to Germany in 70s-80s stage :D
OP Weimarer 8 | 415
9 Feb 2020 #139
First...when i read this bullshit regarding balkan ect i can only laugh.

I look like any other German. Im dark blonde, when i put styling gel in my hair it appears darker, wooohoo big deal. My hair color in germany is called "Straßenköter Blond" in a ironic way. Street dog blonde, because its so common

dfr

So drop this bullshit.

Now to next point...Want some € reality for Germany?

The ordinary German profits zero from this ****. No other EU country has a bigger cheap labor market. People work their asses off for an income you cant live from. They work very much each months but still have to go to Jobcenter to get additional welfare. They are treated like working slaves.

They bost themself here about the low unemployment but dont tell that 30% of teh jobs are worthless shitjobs.

The gigantic export plus? Wooohoo big deal, when some rich ones at Siemens or VW fill their pockets. The wage rises at the workers is absolute minimum. No other EU country has less ability to save money than Germans and when they retire many get only minimum pensions.

The € is an elitist project from elitists for elitists.

We Germans are trapped in a system that exploits us and to exploit others.

Ever wondered why Merkel the ***** wanted all those migrants? For helping? ha ha. She is a cold blooded *****. No. For exploition as additional slave workers.

She doesnt care for people. Not for her own and also not for foreigners. What you witness is the biggest "Hunger Games" in world history.

If she really cared for the migrants she would help them abroad. She doesnt do that. She let them cross the Sahara and Mediterranean Sea. Only the strongest make it. For each one who dies in the sea, 10 died in the Sahara. Only the wealthy and strong reach Europe. The rest gets killed off before. Merkel was like S irene who lures millions to death.

She did not only betray Germany and Europe as a whole. She does so on command of creatures like Soros.

In other times Merkel would have been sued for high treason on Germany and Europe.

The good thing is, she is political dead because AfD, clings on her power like a zombie though. She is shaking and shivering and was forced to stop her perverted politics

When she went full goon in 2015 it was Visegrad countries that saved Germany from the worst and for that im thankful. It took AfD till 2016 to gain enough momentum to stop Merkel in her madness and in that time she could have done much worse too us if not for Visegrad stopping her madness like a firewall.
gumishu 11 | 5,493
9 Feb 2020 #140
The € is an elitist project from elitists for elitists.

I feel your pain, man - elitism (mainly financial elites -but they are cahoots with most of the governments and the judiciary) is one of the worst problems this world faces - in my opinion workers should have a big share in the companies/firms profits not just their salary (say half of the profit of companies should be distributed among the workers according to their input which would also probably require also limitation to the amount of dividend and salaries of the leadership) - maybe it sounds a bit bolshevik to some people but that's my view
OP Weimarer 8 | 415
9 Feb 2020 #141
@gumishu
I agree. Nothing to do with bolshewism. This was the old German way. Companies Like Krupp, Siemens ect were good to their workers.
mafketis 24 | 8,930
9 Feb 2020 #142
The € is an elitist project from elitists for elitists.

Very true, it's a pseudo currency that helps the financial sector (which would gladly enslave you and me) It doesn't matter what it was designed as that's what it has become and half of Europe will be mired in poverty until it's fixed or eliminated.

We Germans are trapped in a system that exploits us and to exploit others.

Yes, the first step is to help Greece and/or Italy out of the Euro and to stop treating southern Europe as a cheap laborer farm.

And... maybe not cackling about Greek pensioners starving to death as an expression of how Great Germany is...
Ziemowit 13 | 4,204
9 Feb 2020 #143
My hair color in germany is called "Straßenköter Blond" in a ironic way. Street dog blonde

Yes, on this picture you look classically Northern European now which could mean that the lion share of your genes come from the Yamnaya people invading the present-day Germany along with other parts of Western Europe some 5,000 to 4,500 years ago. You are likely to have the R1b haplogroup, oder?
Lyzko 26 | 6,968
9 Feb 2020 #144
@Weimarer,
....and they also collaborated with the Nazis in their use of "slave labor" too. Let's keep the story straight and whole:-)
And don't gimme this, "Oh, everybody did it!", because some actually tried to go against the grain.
Not expecting the average German to have put their life on the line, necessarily, but resistance can be done in small steps as well!
OP Weimarer 8 | 415
9 Feb 2020 #145
@Lyzko

Look, we live in 2020, right? No need to constantly look back. What happened, happened.

Siemens and Krupp exist since mid 19th century. They shaped german industrialisation.

Let me explain how i see all this.

Im a german patriot. I love my country and i love my nations history.

Im not proud for Hitler, he was an idiot and bad for us.

I dont know much about what happened in Poland. I guess it had a big impact on your people and some still hold anger over it. I understand that. But our nations are neighbors and we need to get along with each other, right?

I would like to know what Poland wants from us that we can look forward? Do you want us to fall on our knees and beg for forgiveness?

What would it change?

The relation between Germany and Poland is not good, lots of conflict i guess. It cooks up again and again and i dont think thats a good thing.

@Ziemowit
Yes test said R1b. Im not an expert in such things though. What does R1b mean? I just heared its the common stuff here, nothing fancy.
Torq 32 | 2,916
9 Feb 2020 #146
Do you want us to fall on our knees and beg for forgiveness?

Your Chancellor, Willy Brandt, already did that in Warsaw, in 1970...

Willy Brandt

... once is enough, why would we want you to do it again?

The relation between Germany and Poland is not good

You probably missed my post #138 where I explained how much PiS follows the German model (most of their anti-German rhetoric is just for show, to show their strength and score some brownie points with the more nationalistic-minded members of their electorate).
OP Weimarer 8 | 415
9 Feb 2020 #147
@Torq
Brandt was not my chancellor.

1. Im from east germany and beside that, born after reunion. Beside that im not a fan of such symbollic stuff. It changes nothing. Its better to sit down and talk about it.

2. Idk we have normal relations with our other neighbors, with poland it always appears rather conflict and negative.

How is it for a german to travel there? Do people speak bit german there?
Torq 32 | 2,916
9 Feb 2020 #148
There's throngs of Germans visiting every year, and restaurant staff and hotel workers speak some German (it's good business, so why shouldn't they?). Ordinary people in the streets, not so much, but you should be able to communicate in English in most places.
kaprys 3 | 2,484
9 Feb 2020 #149
I've seen Germans in Poland since I was a kid. No one points fingers at them. I haven't heard of any cases of hostility towards Germans. If it happened, it was probably from far right hooligans. Just a guess though -for which I might get a little 'explaining' from certain posters here; )

Two years ago I met a woman from Germany abroad. She said she had been to Poland in the 90s as a teenager - she took part in some sort of an exchange programme.

There have been numerous attempts at bringing the nations together.
I'm surprised you're not aware of that if you're from Eastern Germany.
My grandma was a member of the Polish German Reconciation Foundation in the 90s.
The thing you need to understand is just because the government of a given country claims something, it doesn't mean it reflects the attitude of the whole nation.

Although you should understand that if you claim to disagree with Merkel and co.
Spike31 2 | 1,968
9 Feb 2020 #150
or is it just PiS spreading propaganda against Konfederacja whom they see as their rivals on the right side of political scene?

Here's your answer Torq: youtube.com/watch?v=kbvvvCMB_YI

G.Braun made a phone call to ABW during a live TV conference to inquire them about that subject.

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