Germany's Socio-Political Climate and Its Impact on Poland

....I can't believe that pro-Putin-thing is as big with the AfD as it is surely with the BSW....but changes have to happen Tac! It can't go on like this...thats a fact too!

Anyway....have to bow out here...Gute Nacht all!

Are you aware of a single prominent figure within the AfD who has been really critical of Putin?

Genuine question, I have watched numerous talk shows in which AfD politicians downplayed russia's actions and at best they 'll start with one sentence condemning the war and then use the rest of the time defending Putin and Russia. And why wouldn't they not, Putin's regime has been supporting them for the last ten years.

Most telling was Alice Weidel's appearance on Markus Lanz (06.03.2025) in which she called Zelensky a "beggar president". The amount of contempt she had in her voice for a man who is fighting for the survival of his nation.... . She never put that kind of weight behind her half-hearted criticism of Putin.

Why should they? Putin went by the book even Pailina would like.

1. Revolution
2. Referendum to separate
3. Petition to join
4. Petition accepted.
5. Welcome to Russia!
6. UA, GTF out of Russia!
7. No!
8. Then die. 1.8 million so far.

See how simple things can be when you are not a Russia-hating moron...

There seems to be a lot of support.

Among the fascists in France, there have been issues about bank loans from r*SSia. What are the rules about party financing there and are there any financial links to Moscow?


Very little probably.

I had to google that actually! But there seems to be a shift of opinion/mood inside the AfD:


sueddeutsche.de/politik/afd-russland-afd-fraktion-chrupalla-li.3253054?reduced=true

The AfD is on its way to a "Volkspartei"...it seems natural that there are now more moderate and also radical opinions represented.

The general problem for the leadership seems to be (IMHO of course), the promise to their voters to rebuild our safe energy supply. In short: "Give us our russian gas back....and down with the annoying wind mills, up with the power plants again!"

That war in Ukraine is hence nothing but an annoyance, thats not the same as supporting Putin's invasion....but for a future good relationship with Russia they can hardly blast him like nearly everybody else does....quite the pickle for the AfD....

On the other side (and there is always one)....the AfD is not alone in seeking a better relationship with Moscow, and compared to the SPD she hasn't even the same kind of longstanding contacts yet aka "Petersburger Dialog"...I bet they were talking about Ukraine too...albeit inofficially and secretly....of course!


spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/spd-abgeordneter-ralf-stegner-kam-mit-putin-vertrauten-bei-geheimtreffen-in-baku-zusammen-a-0b114129-541b-4bc7-837a-5012292f86e5

This article should dispell any illusions one could have about the AfD and Russia.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AfD_pro-Russia_movement


And just like with everything else in the AfD, the radical positions are gaining ground. Leading politicians like Gauland, Weidel, Höcke and Chrupalla
are all united with their resistance against further aid for Ukraine and reapproachment to Russia.


It is more than that. It is obvious that many in the AfD have a positive image of Russia and Putin. They view him as the kind of leader they want for their own country. Quite a lot of them would probably be happy if Russia ended up occupying Germany again because they believe that Putin would put them in charge.


Instead they sent "observers" to the sham referendum in Crimea and the Russian sham presidential elections. One AfD politician even showed up in a Russian propaganda show, agreeing with the host (who regulary threatens with nuclear strikes at Berlin btw.) The AfD leadership reacted to this... by censuring the one AfD politician who criticized the appearance in the propaganda show.

Comparing some (misguided) attempts of the SPD to keep diplomatic channels open to that kind of Pro-Russian policies is intellectually dishonest. Even Stegner (whose positions are likely the reason why he no longer has an influential role in the SPD) always made clear that a reproachment with Russia would only be possible after Russia stopped its' invasion of Ukraine permanently and made at least some concessions towards Kiev. The AfD wants to kick Ukraine under the bus and could not care less if the whole country gets occuppied. Moral issues aside, that kind of geostrategic short-sightness is yet another reason why hopefully the AfD will never be in a position of power in Germany.

?

Any links for that?

Astounding that you have so much understanding for the pro-russian Lefties in the RULING SPD aka "Das Russland-Manifest", but expect the apocalypse when the AfD does it???


tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/spd-verteidigung-manifest-ukraine-100.html

The SPD with their Stegners and Mützenichs is part of a ruling coalition in Berlin...which will have no qualms to ally with the Linke, if need be, whose standing concerning Ukraine/Putin is at least contested inside the party too.

But the AfD is the main problem? REALLY?

....can't help it Tac...but that sounds alot like "fearmongering!" I guess we will only know for sure when they really get a say....

Which is the problem. As I pointed out above, the AfD is not just doing what (some) in the SPD are doing. There is a consensus in the party about Ukraine, Russia and the EU that goes against everything the democratic parties stand for.

And yeah, I have more (if not much) understanding for people who a) support Ukraine b) condemn Russia but believe that reaching an understanding with them in the very long run is inevitable. Rather than those who a) dont want to help Ukraine b) defend Putin and Russia c) are doing everything to undermine our own security and deterrence against Russia. One can say a lot about Mützenich, but he actually ended up supporting Scholz' Zeitenwende.


I am simply taking the AfD at their word. While your views on them seem to guided by wishful thinking. Again, I recommend you watch Weidel's interview with Lanz.


Leaving aside that the Left party has never been part of the federal government, in large part due to their foreign policy positions.

The Left party is at least naming Putin as the agressor, is in favour of (non-military) aid and instead of resuming energy ties with Russia advocates for stronger sanctions in the (in my opinion) mistaken belief that economic pressure would be enough to make Putin reconsider his war.

The AfD wants to seize all support for Ukraine and immediately resume ties with Russia. Not only would Ukraine receive no more weapons, we would be directly financing Russia's war against them. See the difference?

.......and wanting to be conquered by Russia and ruled by Putin, not to forget! :)


....yeah....maybe....I'm actually alot more invested in their ideas and plans against inner german problems than their formulated foreign policy. Especially as they have no way to do anything about it for the foreseeable future.

I guess thats the way most interested observer and even voter handle that...

Poland will obviously be affected by her more economically powerful neighbor
to the West. While Poland depends on Germany, Germany too is dependent
on Poland as the buffer zone between the West and Moscow!

If Poland becomes entangled in Germany's socio-political environment, Putin
might well see this as weakness, and, as with any bully (Trump included!!),
could make current or future negotiations with the Kremlin difficult, if not downright
impossible.

What plans? They have never formulated a coherent plan to deal with Germany's pressing structural problems like the collapse of our pension system, their proposals to reform our welfare system usually only adresses foreigners (often in a possibly discriminatory way) and their ideas to solve the refugee issue are either impractical and or unconstitutional.

And since their one and only relevant issues are refugees, I'd argue that having a closer look on how their views on foreign policy might impact the number of arrivals. You can be sure that if Ukraine collapses, several million Ukrainians will make their way West.

@BB German liberals who are working hand in hand with German fat cats have a detrimental effect on Poland and the economy of the EU. At the very least, all green policies should be put into a dream that can't be achieved. Introduce proper anti-illegal immigration measures and laws. Free competition inside the EU market without hidden traps and barriers.
That would be the bottom line, Poland would need to take Germnay seriously.
Sadly, all those globalist liberal who are in charge in the West are incompetent but reluctant to give up their postion and power.
So whoever brings those to the table will be a good partner for some further negotiations with Poland. (provided by the time Poland will get rid of its version of redundant political waste)

You mean like border controles that prevent refugees from entering Germany?

That is highly inefficient if anybody who comes through still can claim asylum and start the whole process!

Much much much more efficient will be to cut these promises in the first place...no more free money for any newcomer...no more "pull factors"! If they still think it a good idea to start the asylum process they get only the necessary things, food, water, a roof over the head, nothing more...and especially no longer free access to all the social goods even without having worked for it one day!

You will see the freeloader running....looking elsewhere for greener (!) pastures!

And don't you dare to repeat the LIE these pull-factors don't exist, or that our economy will break down without Ali the delivery guy or Hassan the old-arse-wiper, these jobs are not popular with them, they have mostly other plans....these people don't wander over half of the globe to enjoy our great weather, our famous language or our incredible friendliness....the german generosity has become world wide known....and now our social system is breaking down because of it!

Just imagine all the money right now paid for millions of foreigners becoming available again for our retirees or our health care...."two birds with one stone"!


Thing is our law of asylum is much rather made for Ukrainians, they are Europeans fleeing a european war....it was never meant for North Africans or Arabs!


Agreed! And especially without the blanket of uncountable regulations which only make lawyer happy but stifle and kill slowly every entrepreneur spirit...

Pointless queues on the highway and bored border guards. Everything costs millions.

Those cuts have already been made in the last few years. Maybe some additional measures can be taken against rejected asylum seekers, but not to the extent that you imagine. The courts have been very clear on this issue.

Regular asylum seekers will still receive free housing, food and basic healthcare and access to schools. That is something the AfD couldn't change even if they got above 50% of the votes.


Peanuts compared to the financial gaps that the demographic change will cause in the future.

And especially if we see a significant increase of Ukrainian refugees in the future.


Which was an argument used to defend Merkel's decision to not close the border, since it would have required those measures, but much larger in scale and intensity.

Again....when they can't change things....why the heck do you fear them so much?

PS: There is one thing that puzzles me....you know, the "safe third-country rule"....imagine the AfD really following that law, truly shoving everybody back out who enters german soil through another safe democratic country, our neighbours! No big change, no new law...just truly implementing an already existing law....man! :)

translated:

Because like I said, it is not their doomed to fail reform attempts regarding our refugee system that worrys me.

The refugee crisis is just the key issue the AfD wants to exploit in order to get into a position that allows them to implement their real plans.

There is a new book coming out with apparantly some fascinating insights into Höcke's ideology, written by an author from the conservative newspaper Die Welt. He seemed to have held those views well before Merkel became chancellor.

Höckes eigentliches Feindbild ist nicht Merkel, sondern Adenauer

welt.de/politik/deutschland/article68c948df420d2a3ce3b51b2f/rechtsextremer-vordenker-hoeckes-eigentliches-feindbild-ist-nicht-merkel-sondern-adenauer.html

"The thesis, advanced for years by the author of this foreword, that Angela Merkel was the involuntary midwife of the AfD, must also be reconsidered - at least as far as Höcke is concerned. He was not radicalized by a "welcoming culture" or a supposed leftward shift of the CDU/CSU parties. Höcke suffers from American popular culture, "reeducation," Western ties, and a struggle to come to terms with the past.

His real enemy is not Merkel, but Adenauer. He suffers from the fact that Germany's "long road to the West" finally succeeded under the great CDU chancellor after such painful detours. Höcke rejects more than just "Merkel's Germany." The good old Federal Republic is a horror to him!"

Sounds easy right? Of course then you European law and Human Right conventions that contradict that law. Neighbours who refuse to take them back, like we are already seeing with Poland.... Refugees who make it on German soil and apply to German courts.... Sick and infirm refugees who are in need of immediate medical attention... The economic and political fallout from such controles.

It remains to be seen if the (comparatively limited) measures taken by the Merz government citing special circumstances caused by high refugee numbers will survive the judicial appeals.

I could even agree with that....now it would be logical for the ruling parties to end this particular crisis themselves and with that stopping the rise of the AfD, wouldn't it! Merz won the last elections because he promised the "End of Left", a "Zeitenwende"....seriously, maybe he needs more time, but he already broke some of his biggest promises, and the coalition with the SPD might make a real change impossible.

I guess many new AfD voter will come be disappointed and angry former CDU voter.


Might be, might not be....did Höcke tell that the author himself? I can't find any links for that (besides to that new book).....I would like to hear that in an interview.

And then there is Weidel...the current party leader! I wonder what she thinks about Adenauer....


It is! If you truly wanted to!

But like you there are to many people in power who just don't want to and find reasons to go around this law and still keep them coming! No matter what a rising number of people thinks and want!

And THAT is scary...because there is only one end to that, a ruling AfD! (And no, I don't believe any try to ban the party will be successful).

Adenauer though, while effective as a manager, had numerous blind spots,
not the very least of which was the appointment to various government posts
of former top Nazis, among them of course, Dr. Theodor Oberlaender, above all,
one of the drafters of the Nueremberg Laws, Dr. Hans Globke!

His defense of course, was that as most of those competent to lead Germany had been killed
during the war, any able-minded, experienced professional, needed to be called in
to serve in the West German government, no matter what.

As I recall reading as well as having spoken with historians of the period, e.g. the late Andreas
Hillgruber, Adenauer typically would brook no opposition to his policies.

However, Jews were immensely fond of Adenauer, looking at him as a sort of German
FDR, who met with Ben Gurion when no other German leader would, as well as appointing
the first post-war German ambassador to Israel, Dr. Rolf Pauls.

A deeply flawed, but highly clever man, Konrad Adenauer.

When would this crisis be considered "solved' though? As long as a single refugee arrives, the AfD will claim that the problem is not solved. The number of new arrivals has gone down by more than 60% compared to last year. Maybe it can be reduced to less than 100k per year, but this number will never go much lower than that.

The UK has left the EU, had Tory governments that were tough on refugees and - perhaps most importantly - are an island, yet they had roughly 100k refugee applications last year.

We will never be able to back to the times when we had a few thousand refugees per year. That is simply no longer possible, given the world we live in today.


I havent read the book yet. But the author found apparantly evidence for that from the time back then when Höcke was still a teacher.


We are not living in a dictatorship but in a democracy with the rule of law and separations of power. This is something I think people are forgetting. The government doesnt enjoy unlimited power, least of all the federal government which is subject to so many checks and balances. I pointed out some of the problems that are already encountered by the Merz government.


Those weren't blind spots. Adenauer was fully aware of whom he was dealing with, but he had a good eye for talent and and knew who could be relied on. Which was tremendously important because a) a lot of the important decisions required absolute confidentiality and b) most of the institutions had to be rebuilt so he had to rely more on a few individuals in key positions than his successors.

Another thing to consider is the different mentality towards the past of individuals and their eligibility for prominent positions. Today we think that someone like Globke should never hold a high position in government, or someone like Hans Filbinger should never be voted into office. Back then however the majority of Germans believed (many with self-serving reasons) that if someone did not implicate himself too much during the Third Reich, then he should be given a second chance. And to be entirely fair towards Globke, his true culpability it is still a matter of great debate amongst historians.

...and AfD will be right since no new arrivals does not remove the scum already inside.

How many migrants did Germany deport in 2024? 2?

....sometimes I can't help thinking the people in power just hope this crisis will just fade away.....people will lose interest.....like it happened to the "climate thing"..... we will see!

Because he is part of the system, the so-called liberal elite is wrapped up in bureaucracy that is ineffective and unable to solve real-life issues for their countries. Instead, they create problems that didn't previously exist.

Have you noticed that every solution presented is for them, too costly and impractical.. and so on? At the same time, they waste billions on some fantasy projects they promote. They are such lazy hypocrites.
Not only are they not able to solve problems, but their excuses are lame to the extreme.

Better than to be deceived by simple slogans and solutions. Especially if we can already observe the problems with them.

What was the reaction in Poland when Germany sent back refugees who tried to cross the Polish-German border? Did they say: "Finally, Germany is protecting its' borders like it should have done years ago! And of course we will take back that refugee who tried to cross the Oder near Frankfurt and who arrived in Poland via Belarus."?

«Dumped» is the word I would have used. If it was more organised and in full co-operation with both sides and facilities in place. It would had been sent.

Alas mistakes were&are done on both sides. I just hope Germany is able to stabilise her internal problems and grow more Indie companies. Too many big ones have been sold abroad. It needs to get back on it's feet to be a stabilizing force for herself and her neighbours

For that the gov needs to treat our industry better....less costs / more profit!

But as long as lefties like the SPD or the Greens are having such a say that won't happen. It all started to fall down with the totally unnecessary and dumb end of the cheapest and most clean and easily available energy source we had, the nuclear power plants.

Now we are broke....our "Bundesrechnungshof" is screaming loudly already....but hey....right now nearly 48% of all people getting free german social goods are foreigners...now that is of course so much more important!

de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/1560171/umfrage/auslaenderanteil-bei-arbeitslosengeld-ii-buergergeld-in-deutschland/

We will end up like Greece did...I wonder who will help us then out of this self digged hole!

Solid point, Tacitus.
I certainly can't, nor would I, argue with your last statement.
Along with Filbinger, the likes of Luebke, Kiesinger, even Karl Karstens,
clearly left a lot to be desired, pointing once again to the deeply divided
nature of post-war German politics!

OK, Tacitus, what is the solution to this problem?

I know...To you, it's not a problem.

Mine is simple: No benefits to foreigners. Want to work? Work and fvck off of the German taxpayers. Or get the fvck out.

Nothing complex. AfD feels exactly the same way. Hence,"Nazis!!!!!"