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In Germany the Reichsbürger movement denies the existence of the Federal Republic of Germany


GefreiterKania 36 | 1,412
26 Dec 2022 #1
Interesting...

dw.com/en/what-is-germanys-reichsb%C3%BCrger-movement/a-36094740

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsb%C3%BCrger_movement

... aparently they reject the legitimacy of modern Germany in favour of the German Empire:

1

@BB How worried should we be? ;)
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,810
26 Dec 2022 #2
I would say they rather dispute the legality of the Bundesrepublik, not necessarily the borders. They use other identifications....

bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/topthemen/DE/topthema-reichsbuerger/topthema-reichsbuerger.html

...Reports regularly appear in the daily newspapers about citizens who reject the existence of the Federal Republic of Germany and its legal system. They boycott administrative decisions and hinder police officers in their work. They draw borders around their houses, thereby declaring their property their own separate state territory. They have their own passports, their own currencies and their own "governments". We are talking about so-called "Reich citizens" and "self-administrators".

They also deny the legitimacy of democratically elected representatives such as the Federal Chancellor or local mayors as representatives of the people. Some of these groups and individuals even assume that our legal system does not apply to them. Their motives can be very different....


bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/bilder/DE/schmuckbilder/sicherheit/extremismus-terrorismus/reisepass-reichsbuerger-ausschnitt.jpg;jsessionid=877974332BF733F62E7DF09ED85A2059.1_cid364?__blob=panorama&v=2
jon357 74 | 21,878
26 Dec 2022 #3
Good that someone's started a thread about it.

I follow the antics of 'Freemen on the Land' (the British/Aus/Can/NZ equivalent of Reichsburgers) and 'Sovereign Citizens' (the same nutters but in America) and thought last week about starting a thread on them in Poland. The thing was, I couldn't find anything on line about them in Poland and suspect there aren't any there.

The lot of them seem barking mad, and evidently some of them (especially the German ones) are dangerous.

There's a huge overlap between these crazies and anti-vax loons, QAnonners, people who believe in 'Satanic ritual abuse' and people who believe in odd financial schemes. There's a good forum especially about them (mostly taking the p1ss) called Qatloos.

For the German ones, who would be their Emperor? Especially now that crank Reuss has been arrested on suspicion of terrorism.
jon357 74 | 21,878
26 Dec 2022 #5
In a few places rather than everywhere.

I couldn't find any in Poland.

One of the funniest/saddest is called 'Queen' Romana Didulo, a Canadian woman in America who issues her own passports. She's obviously not well, yet people keep sending her money.

A British one that much is written about online is called Neelu Berry. She keeps trying to issue million dollar fines to judges and claims that she's not subject to the law (she's a frequent flyer in the courtroom and has been for years). She claims (possibly accurately, possibly not) to be Rishi Sunak's aunt.
Velund 1 | 579
26 Dec 2022 #6
...
Von der Maas bis an die Memel,
Von der Etsch bis an den Belt -
Deutschland, Deutschland über alles,
Über alles in der Welt!
...

Poles should be wary...
OP GefreiterKania 36 | 1,412
26 Dec 2022 #7
Poles should be wary...

Well, there's around 20 thousand of them; I'll start worrying when there's 20 million.
jon357 74 | 21,878
26 Dec 2022 #8
20 thousand of them;

And all of them deranged cranks.
That movement hasn't caught on anywhere else and I doubt it would be any more popular in Germany.

It gives people something to laugh at though
OP GefreiterKania 36 | 1,412
26 Dec 2022 #9
And all of them deranged cranks.

And a German acquaintance tells me they are mostly males over 50 years old (although they have some influence over younger anti-vaccines crowd), so with time the problem will solve itself, so to speak.
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,810
26 Dec 2022 #10
And a German acquaintance tells me they are mostly males over 50 years old

Agreed! The prisoned leader can't walk straight without a wheeled walking frame....there is nothing fearsome/militaristic about these guys, I think! They are just old and dream of long gone better days....and IF they had been better is disputable!
OP GefreiterKania 36 | 1,412
26 Dec 2022 #11
and IF they had been better is disputable!

Exactly! Nostalgia is a weird thing... all those people in Poland nostalgic for the Second Republic (1918-1939), a time of widespread illiteracy, suffering and poverty for millions of Poles, or even the PRL (People's Republic of Poland) never cease to amaze me (OK, I could possibly be accused of the same thing regarding the Austro-Hungarian Empire :)).

When time machines are invented people who are nostalgic about a certain period of time in the past should be transported to that period and made to live there for a year or two. ;)
pawian 222 | 23,676
26 Dec 2022 #12
all those people in Poland nostalgic for the Second Republic

Not only the second Republic - they also count in the lands acquired from Germans after WW2.
Nationalist sickos are everywhere - in Poland, Germany, Ukraine, Russia etc. What really matters is what impact they have on the country`s politics. In Poland and Germany it is zero. In Russia - quite considerable.



Lyzko 45 | 9,286
3 Jan 2023 #13
The entire concept of a "Reichsbuergerstaat" dates back to the 19th century, roughly around the Bismarck Era, and, like the name suggests, indicates citizenry of an "Imperial State" as opposed to a democratic constitutional democracy.
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,810
3 Jan 2023 #14
I always had a soft sport for Bismarck, prussian and everything.....better than most what came afterwards....does that make me a "Reichsbürger" now? ;)
OP GefreiterKania 36 | 1,412
4 Jan 2023 #15
I always had a soft sport for Bismarck

Oh, come on - the guy was basically a proto-Nazi, a filthy racist who called for the extermination of Poles and conducted a genocidal "Kulturkampf" policy. He wanted to not only eradicate the Polish language and culture but also exterminate Poles physically...

quotepark.com/quotes/1869194-otto-von-bismarck-hit-the-poles-so-hard-that-they-despair-of-their-l/

... I think that's the reason why his cult in Germany is being curbed by the current German government, and now the so-called "Bismarck room" in the Foreign Office is being renamed. The portrait of the former Chancellor in it was also taken down. In the future, the meeting room will be called the "Hall of German Unity"...

jellypages.com/breaking/foreign-office-renames-bismarck-room-h133504.html

... WELL DONE, GERMANY!

Please, BB, find yourself a different idol. ;)
Lyzko 45 | 9,286
4 Jan 2023 #16
On the other hand, he DID in fact begin the first labor unions and as such, helped lay the foundations of Social Security:-)
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,810
4 Jan 2023 #17
I think that's the reason why his cult in Germany is being curbed by the current German government,

....done by a ultra leftist/green Wokie.....that looks like the choice between a rock and a hard place! *big dramatic sigh*

On the other hand, he DID in fact begin the first labor unions and as such, helped lay the foundations of Social Security:-)

Genau!!!! :)
jon357 74 | 21,878
5 Jan 2023 #18
....done by a ultra leftist/green Wokie

Better than a nationalistic imperialist.

Those days are gone.

helped lay the foundations of Social Security:-)

So he had some good points.
OP GefreiterKania 36 | 1,412
5 Jan 2023 #19
...done by a ultra leftist/green Wokie

Looks like ultra wokie green leftists can be right about some things sometimes! :)

Wanted to exterminate the Poles and ...

... helped lay the foundations of Social Security.

...well, yes - I suppose that changes everything. *galactic eye roll*
jon357 74 | 21,878
5 Jan 2023 #20
leftists can be right

And almost always are.
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,810
5 Jan 2023 #21
....I guess nationalists are always heroes at home....and disliked by foreigners....*shrugs*
Lyzko 45 | 9,286
5 Jan 2023 #22
Not "everything", Gefreiter Kania, but enough, considering how much half the planet relies both on trade unions for worker rights and protection as well as Social Security benefits:-)
OP GefreiterKania 36 | 1,412
5 Jan 2023 #23
nationalists are always heroes at home....and disliked by foreigners

That's why the only way of progress would be blending a huge block, like the EU, into one large country and keeping it that way until the old nationalisms die off naturally. Unfortunately, it's a utopia that can never be realised because some countries will always want to dominate and won't give up their position for others (and it applies, although to a different extent, to both Germany and Poland).

It looks like human nature is what it is and we can't fight it - original sin, total depravity, desperately wicked, most deceitful hearts etc. John Calvin got it right. Or I should rather say: the Holy Writ got it right.
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,810
5 Jan 2023 #24
That's why the only way of progress would be blending a huge block, like the EU, into one large country....

*nods*

....or.....developing a real european nationalism!!!! :) Where we all are only regions....bitching and infighting and rivaling regions of course but also regions which all keep their distinct cultures and dialects and all...but we would be all foremost Europeans...who want only the best for Europe! :)

(...to chose the best european players for our european football team will be the horror, though....)

Unfortunately, it's a utopia

Rome did it before....and quite well for a big part.

I would rather say the splitting of empirial regions into hostile, small national states is a rather new thing in our human history.....large empires with many different regions had been much longer the norm.....
Lyzko 45 | 9,286
5 Jan 2023 #25
Those putschists" in Germany who tried that foiled attempt at a gov't.
takeover remind me of the German version of Polish PiSlers.
An obvious point, but one which bears at least some consideration.
OP GefreiterKania 36 | 1,412
5 Jan 2023 #26
...or.....developing a real european nationalism!!!! :)

Which would require, first and foremost, a united football team - and we are back at the same point of our discussion for the 100th time. ;)

we would be all foremost Europeans...who want only the best for Europe! :)

Something like Federal Republic of Europe. Hmm... not a bad idea. The only problem is that such project could only be accomplished by those woke green leftist peacenicks. If left to our favourite Bismarcks and Dmowskis the fighting and b*tching would NEVER end. So, we can either give up our life-long sympathies and life long abhorrences (of leftards) or give up the dreams of united Europe. A scary conclusion! I have to go back and see where I went wrong with my reasoning. *scratches head*

(...to chose the best european players for our european football team will be the horror, though....)

Now when I think of it, it definitely WOULD be a horror! *trembles at the thought*

splitting of empirial regions into hostile, small national states is a rather new thing

... it might be a new thing, but extremely difficult to reverse.
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,810
5 Jan 2023 #27
could only be accomplished by those woke green leftist peacenicks

I doubt that....they would never be as strongly pro-Europeans as necessary! Most of them would never be interested in supporting our european football team either...

*trembles at the thought*

Yeah....won't be easy....but the rewards!!! :):):)
OP GefreiterKania 36 | 1,412
5 Jan 2023 #28
Most of them would never be interested in supporting our european football team either...

Exactly! First rule in life - never trust a man who doesn't like football! Thanks for putting me right again, BB. :)
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,810
5 Jan 2023 #29
Heh:)

Pan-Europeanism needs to be teached in schools....and tried and build in sports first so people can get used to it....and then give and take a hundred years....who knows what is possible!

*dreams on*
OP GefreiterKania 36 | 1,412
5 Jan 2023 #30
give and take a hundred years

Yip, a 100 years should do it. It's not that long.

*dreams together with BB*


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