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Should Poland exit the EU immediately?


Harry
20 Dec 2015 #331
with American troops defending Poland ?

Oh, johnny, just when I think your lack of knowledge cannot astound me any further you always give us yet another gem!
Crow 139 | 8,566
20 Dec 2015 #332
To most Poles, the EU and NATO symbolize that Poland is now part of the West after having been forced to be a Soviet vassal state in the post-war period. (...)

i absolutely agree with your position here.

Far more important to Poland is the support of the U.S. and being sheltered under its nuclear umbrella. (...)

Considering historical reasons and development in what is now Ukraine, Lwow would be in Poland again. Rightfully. International community made mistake and slightly recognized Ukraine in its borders created by communists. Now is needed international conference dedicated to Ukraine, where several peoples must be asked in case with real borders of that state: 1. Ukrainian people, 2. Ruthenian people, 3. Russian people, 4. Polish people, 5. Serbian people. All these peoples played role in history of what is now Ukraine and had their historical provinces/states there. Also, all these peoples are Slavs and we here speak about internal issue of Slavic world.

I can assure you that many Poles know fine well that the United States is not going to protect Poland in the event of war with Russia.

that is also great truth.

Most probable scenario is that would USA tried to act on the behalf of all Anglo interests and offer deal to Russia, behind back of Poles. But, in this historical moment, Russia shows all signals that wouldn`t accept any deal behind back of Poles.

Indeed. Poles aren't stupid - they know fine well that if the German economy is so closely linked to the Polish one, then Germany will have no choice but to defend Poland in the event of attack.

how nonsensical sentence
honda123 - | 2
20 Dec 2015 #333
what if poland comes to dictatorship would eu kick out poland?
Crow 139 | 8,566
20 Dec 2015 #334
no. EU is itself dictatorship. Once you are there they would do anything to keep you assimilating and draining your life.
roade85 4 | 21
20 Dec 2015 #335
They should assert sovereignty at every opportunity, in an attempt to reduce the EU to nothing more than a defense alliance and customs-free zone. That's all the EU will ever be good for. No common currency (just a banker scheme to fleece the governments and people at every deflationary downturn) or regulations, no unelected Brussels bureaucrats, no garbage trade treaties like the TTIP.

Get out of NATO and have a new European defense alliance, so Europe can stop getting roped into American/British wars and dirty tricks. Russia doesn't want war, they just want to stop getting harassed and isolated by NATO (i.e. US/UK/France)
Crow 139 | 8,566
20 Dec 2015 #336
Wise words

i hope that would Polish diaspora support Poles at home, in Poland, in intention of Poland to regain its independence, secede from EU, go out of NATO and declare formation of Intermarium.

i shall pray for internal unity of Poles
johnny reb 23 | 4,467
20 Dec 2015 #337
just when I think your lack of knowledge cannot astound me any further

I was thinking the same with you.
You would be speaking German today if it wasn't for the American troops.
Poland can not afford to exit the EU even if it wanted to.

Wise words

They will not be allowed to take just the cream of the EU without giving something back.
terri 1 | 1,665
20 Dec 2015 #338
If Poland wanted to EXIT the EU, it would have to pay back to the EU all the grants/monies given to Poland in the last few years. I am not sure how many years the EU would go back. Grants etc are always subject to conditions.
Crow 139 | 8,566
20 Dec 2015 #339
They will not be allowed to take just the cream of the EU without giving something back.

EU was trap, among else, to take Silesia from Poland. i predicting escalation on this subject, too.
Roger5 1 | 1,458
20 Dec 2015 #340
You don't live here, have never been here or never will be.
Now you are claiming to be an authority on understanding America's attitude.

You don't live here, have never been here, and never will.
Now you are claiming to be an authority on understanding Polish attitudes.

If Poland wanted to EXIT the EU, it would have to pay back to the EU all the grants/monies given to Poland in the last few years.

Poland doesn't want to leave the EU. It's not even debatable. EU membership is hugely popular in Poland.
johnny reb 23 | 4,467
20 Dec 2015 #341
Now you are claiming to be an authority

Really or is it that YOU are claiming that I am an authority with your trolling. lol
Poland has the best of two worlds belonging to the EU and NATO.
They know what side their bread is buttered on.
They ain't goin' nowhere anytime soon.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
20 Dec 2015 #342
is hugely popular in Poland

But not the Brussels diktat. Poles want the EU to be a confederation of sovereign national states voluntarily affiliated to pursue mutually agreed objectives without bullying or coercion against those who disagree. That includes voluntary not coercive acceptance of the euro. The UK feel the same way. Except for the Michnikites and their anti-patriotic one-worldly ilk no-one wants a United States of Europe in which countries would have even fewer rights than the American states do.
Crow 139 | 8,566
20 Dec 2015 #343
If Poland wanted to EXIT the EU, it would have to pay back to the EU all the grants/monies given to Poland in the last few years.

It would demand international conference. Speaking in economical terms, western Europe greatly profited from EU. Then, EU followed NATO in policing the world. Many countries already and would demand compensation. We all know how NATO and EU functioned, by dictate of USA, Britain, France and Germany. NATO is even tool of just those four countries. So, Poland may ask that those countries pay all compensations to third countries, including to Poland for all Polish loses in non-Polish wars and also, Poland may ask for non-material compensations (moral damage to Poland, fear of population for involvement in wars, etc).

All in all, Poland don`t owe any money to anyone.

i am sure that would Poland profit from going out of EU and NATO. In any sense. Sure, there would a price to be paid but, freedom never goes without price.

Only Serbia demand from NATO countries compensations that estimates more then 100 billion USA dollars, as compensation for damage of infrastructure, nature, loss of population and economy, because of illegal attack back in 1999.
johnny reb 23 | 4,467
20 Dec 2015 #344
Isn't that the way it has always worked Crow........NATO blows a country up and then goes back and rebuilds it for them.
Crow 139 | 8,566
20 Dec 2015 #345
just, Serbians decided to pay the price and they want their independence, they themselves rebuilding their countries declaring military neutrality on global military alliances, while opening itself from investments from any country in the world on equal ground. Serbs looks for EU merely as for customs-free zone and free flow of people. At the same time Serbs sued NATO countries for compensations in damage back in 1999. Interest rate on all demands for compensation are already enormous. Interest rate plus principal debt as a whole is astronomical level of money.

Western Europe and USA would learn that they don`t rule this world and that still there are global rules.
mafketis 23 | 8,360
20 Dec 2015 #346
Poles want the EU to be a confederation of sovereign national states voluntarily affiliated to pursue mutually agreed objectives without bullying or coercion against those who disagree.

Oddly enough, for once Polly seems right (A festivus miracle?!?) The overwhelming opinion I get on the EU from Polish people of different generations and class is a generally positive attitude for the good it has done Poland but a distinct lack of enthusiasm for the neverending increasing integration that is priority number one in Brussels.

Merkel's Folly in inviting tens of millions of third world malcontents is definitely the first chink in the EU armor (and helped in eroding public confidence in PO).
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
20 Dec 2015 #347
The bad thing, "federalists" and Gerries are so obsessed with it that I'm afraid war might be needed to stop it...
jon357 63 | 15,214
20 Dec 2015 #348
he overwhelming opinion I get on the EU from Polish people of different generations and class is a generally positive attitude for the good it has done Poland but a distinct lack of enthusiasm for the neverending increasing integration that is priority number one in Brussels

I've only heard the positive stuff, but the change here since EU entry is palpable - it's made a real difference for the better.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
20 Dec 2015 #349
only heard the positive stuff

Only proves your limited exposure to real Poles. Apparently you circulate in some circle of expats and/or hobnob with a fringe group of like-minded one-worlders WHO DO NOT REPRESENT THE FEELINGS OF THE TYPICAL POLE!
jon357 63 | 15,214
20 Dec 2015 #350
Apparently you circulate in some circle of expats

Nope. I simply don't mix with expats at all.

I've only heard positive things about EU membership from Poles - except for one slightly guy who's a fairly prominent Libertarian and even he admits the good things that membership has brought!
mafketis 23 | 8,360
20 Dec 2015 #351
I've only heard the positive stuff, but the change here since EU entry is palpable - it's made a real difference for the better.

Overall, yes, but I've heard at least as much anti-Euro rhetoric as pro-Euro. The continuing misery of Spain and Greece (made worse by the Euro) is not lost on many people.

it was after Merkel announced her unilateral insane plan to make German (and the rest of the EU) an open destination for anyone who could pay traffickers and say the word "asylum" that I began to hear the first real open criticism of the idea. It's still overall probably but as they say every rose has its thorn and Germany making unilateral decisions that it expects other countries to meekly follow along with is a real big thorn for most Polish people.
OP Ironside 49 | 10,282
20 Dec 2015 #352
If Poland wanted to EXIT the EU, it would have to pay back to the EU all the grants/monies given to Poland in the last few years.

Hmm, can you post a link or something to support your opinion? After all Poland like all countries pay in to the EU as well. Not to mention lost revenues in taxes.

I don't think any such a rule exist.

It's still overall probably but as they say every rose has its thorn and Germany making unilateral decisions that it expects other countries to meekly follow along with is a real big thorn for most Polish people.

Whoa !! just slow down or you get accused of living on the Mars and having no real knowledge about Poland and Polish afdfirer by t he usual suspects.

What makes him a slanderer?

lies

Numbers are growing

No, numbers are not growing.
Meathead 5 | 470
21 Dec 2015 #353
Poland can't go on it's own. Poles are showing that they can't govern themselves. They need the EU to keep a check on the fascist elements in the political class. Poland is showing that when it comes to governance they are adolescents.
Legal Eagle
21 Dec 2015 #354
. They need the EU to keep a check on the fascist elements in the political class.

The fascist elements in the EU oppose Poland's democratically elected President and parliament. The strongest opposition comes from the historically most aggressive fascist country in Europe. The Poles can govern themselves just fine if the foreigners stay out. The question is, can the Poles keep the foreigners from interfering in Poland's internal political affairs? That is all.
Meathead 5 | 470
21 Dec 2015 #355
When you win an election you can't throw all the opposition out. That's not governing. Even Lech Walesa said as much and he's no liberal.
Legal Eagle
21 Dec 2015 #356
When you win an election you can't throw all the opposition out.

The voters elected whom they elected, and threw out whom they did not elect. It isn't complicated. This was a democratic election.

Even Lech Walesa said as much and he's no liberal.

Pan Wałęsa said what he said, and that doesn't change the election results either. In a democracy, elections have consequences. That also means the losers are unhappy.

The critics can love Poland, or leave Poland.
Crow 139 | 8,566
21 Dec 2015 #357
Poland can't go on it's own. Poles are showing that they can't govern themselves.

no. Events rather suggests that west of Europe giving its best to preserve its control over Poland, while Poland struggling to escape assimilation.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
22 Dec 2015 #358
The critics can love Poland, or leave Poland.

Or they can change Poland, as we're doing.

The fascist elements in the EU oppose Poland's democratically elected President and parliament.

Branding your opponents as "fascist" is straight out of the Russian playbook. Poor attempt.

The strongest opposition comes from the historically most aggressive fascist country in Europe.

Clearly not. The strongest opposition comes from successful and patriotic Poles.

The Poles can govern themselves just fine if the foreigners stay out.

If they could, there wouldn't have been demonstrations in over 30 cities last weekend.

The question is, can the Poles keep the foreigners from interfering in Poland's internal political affairs?

Sorry, but Poland has meddled in plenty of other people's affairs in the past, including Ukraine's last year.

Pan Wałęsa

President Wałęsa. I see your knowledge of Polish protocol is like your knowledge of Polish history, Polish law and many other things - non-existent. Show some respect, won't you?
Roger5 1 | 1,458
23 Dec 2015 #359
From a BBC interview with President Duda on their website today.
"Poles are pleased that we are members of the EU. For many Poles this has a big symbolic meaning."

BBC: Why are PiS Euro-sceptic?
"That's what we are known as to some, but that is simply not the case. It's an attempt to build a false image of us. We are not Euro- sceptic; we are Euro-realist."

Any comments from the PolAm experts?
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
23 Dec 2015 #360
"Poles are pleased that we are members of the EU. For many Poles this has a big symbolic meaning."

Indeed. The Polonia don't seem to understand that Poland causing trouble with the EU doesn't mean that Poland is anti-EU. PiS have their specific view of what the EU means, but they've never seriously suggested leaving.

It's an attempt to build a false image of us.

Nice attempt, Duda ;)


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