CO2 emissions in Poland. Should Poland go nuclear or stick with clean coal technologies?

It's been planned for a long however I gather it was not in the public domain for a time due to potential controversy.

Now of course, the importance of moving away from fossil fuels and having nothing to do with r*SSia have changed everything.

Oh, come on, I deliberately didn`t mention that prehistory of building the first plant in communist times of 1982-1989. Let`s focus on the current century, OK???

We are. The plans were decades after that.

Nothing is being constructed because Tusk and his gang sabotaged all projects imperative for Poland's further development.

As to the OP question, before Poland gets sufficient nucleral capacity to produce energy Poland should use coal. To keep prices of energy down and the economy growing.

Providing those who use it pay compensation for anyone in neighbouring countries affected by pollution from it.

That and a price, at market rates, for offsetting the emissions.

we need to double capacity of the baltic pipe.

Unfortunately piping hydrocarbons across the sea is very short term since the Norwegian sectors are declining slowly, and most goes contractually elsewhere.

once CDU get back into power in Germany this year, the EU Green Deal/Fit for 50 is kaput.
Europe won't be able to compete with USA and China in terms of energy costs for traditional industry and AI otherwise, and will become a backwater.

oh look even labour agrees.
"Net zero is less important than economic growth, Rachel Reeves has suggested"
"It suggests that Ms Reeves will prioritise the economy over cutting carbon emissions in future decisions. Senior Labour figures have previously sought to suggest that going green was not in opposition to increasing GDP."

We are the best party for government and have to balance southern NIMBYism with development and jobsfor the rest of us. The Labour Party are not purists and right now have to rebuild the country after 14 years of misrule.

Any industrial development will nevertheless have to be as clean as possible.

Nobody can force an independent country to pay for anything.
Nuclear power plants and other such are only secondary sources of energy, a primary source for Poland should be coal. Pollution is exaggerated, it is not the 19th century there technology that makes such pollution negligible.
It is needed for the country to grow its economy.

Courts can, and if someone is harmed, they have a right to compensation.


Most countries manage fine without coal fired power stations or domestic use of coal.

Provided said country recognize their jurisdiction.
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Kudos to them, Poland needs it.

China has over 3000 operational coal fired power plant units with another 1000 planned to be built this year.
That's why Trump said, "how can we compete by going green with countries like China who ignore polluting the planet ?"

The coal mining industry in Poland has been in decline for a long time now. The coal is of low quality and the mines had been running at huge losses due to the falling price of coal worldwide.

In addition, mines in Silesia are very deep and extracting the coal is not economically viable.


Burning coal and wood in Krakow is banned. I don't think they did that for no reason.

Mentality from 1980s when Poland was world`s power in coal mining and 90% export revenues depended on coal. Lousy 10 billion $ annually.

You probably missed the European Courts. That and the fact that a court judgement in Germany or Czech can be enforced in Poland.

@johnny reb
It's hard to sanction China when we're so dependent on on them. That is a fault of capitalism. Europe should however be self sufficient wherever possible. Opening a couple of piddling ciol mines would just bring more pollution to Poland which is already appallinglynpolluted.

We'll have to go for the cleanest and most sustainable energy sources eventually; shouldn't Poland have a headstart on this?


Sadly they still do it and that city is horrendously polluted. Not a place to wear a white shirt

They pay for it with severe air pollution:

ig.ft.com/china-pollution


"Compete"? In what? In a death race? I think you're lucky enough to live in a place that doesn't give you any idea what is a real air pollution:

deviantart.com/yuumei/journal/Going-to-China-439918589

"I'm looking forward to seeing how much China has changed. Though I'm not looking forward to breathing that air. Air pollution is such a constant health hazard that I had to buy hundreds of dollars worth of respirators for me and my grandparents. I will also be buying air purifiers (that's another five hundred dollars) for the apartment they live in. People think living in China is cheap, but that is until you realize being cheap comes at a cost. When the government and corporations cut cost on environmental regulations, the money they saved and pocketed for their own gains is billed back to the public in the form of pollution. The money it costs to buy respirators, air purifiers, and pay medical bills for pollution related health damages is way beyond the money saved.

RIght now, I am typing this journal in California. The sky is blue, the air is clean. I check the Air Quality Index everyday. And while my location is always below 50 (the good healthy zone), China's number is always between 200 (unhealthy) to 500 (hazardous). These numbers are a grim reminder of what unregulated industrialization does to the environment we live in. Even where I live in California, 1/3 of the local pollution is blown in from China. Pollution is not a regional problem, it's a global problem. So with that in mind, no matter where you live, be sure to do your share to help the environment. Be it as simple as recycling, or planting a tree, or making sure your government has strict environmental standards in place; anything helps."

Also, judging by what I've read here China may apparently burn less coal despite building more coal power plants, because Chinese coal plants have been running less often:

sustainabilitybynumbers.com/p/china-coal-plants

"Power plants usually aren't running all the time. They're turned on and off or ramped up and down when they're needed.

The 'capacity factor' of the plant tells us how often it's running at maximum power. The capacity factor of China's coal plants has been dropping over the last 15 years. See the chart below from S&P Global Commodity Insights.

In the first decade of the 2000s, plants were running around 70% of the time. They're now running around 50%. We can also see this in operating hours data from the National Energy Administration (NEA) of China.

If utilisation rates continue to drop, China's coal use could fall despite it adding more capacity."

Due to design, not necessity. It is a strategic resource needed to keep Poland's economy growing.
It has the extra benefit of securing energetical independence.
it can be supplemented by a few nuclear plants and hydrological plants but the main ore supplying Polish energy needs should be coal for another 60 years.
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There is widespread confusion between households burning coal for heating and coal being used in power stations. As I said it is not the 19th century there is no great pollution as green nutters claim.
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Go and visit Shrink. Judging by what you are posting here only such a specialist can help you.

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Only because Poland signed some treaty, Poland can also withdraw from such treaties that are detrimental to the Polish national interest.

I bet you wouldn't want to live next to a coal plant and I doubt you'd like your children to live next to it for the next 60 years...


Tell that to the Chinese lol 🤦

Even if you put aside the problem of pollution, it's not economically competitive to mine it in Poland. Poland had been importing it from Russia prior to the invasion of Ukraine, and it's cheaper to import from non-EU countries that have lower labour costs.

Plus, as I said before the cost of extracting coal from Silesian mines is prohibitive.

@Ironside
They can't withdraw from the EU accession agreement without Polexit. That won't happen. The U.K. ould do Brexit and survive nicely. Poland isn't an island and has a different sort of economy.


That's pretty well where I'm from and I don't recommend it.

Could you put forward an actual argument?
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Not really, imported coal was often cheap due to two factors:
1, price dumping
2, taxes and regulations that made Polish coal more expensive than it should be.

It could be about one or two mines, as far as I recall it is not the case with other mines. Silesia is not the only region in Poland with coal.
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I think Poland can. It is my idea to withdraw from such regulations and treaties that are outright harmful to the Polish interest. Not asking for Polexit but dare them to kick us out. Let's see what happens.

What a nice discussion.

Joker, if you ever say sth stupid about reviving old threads again, we will ask your mother to spank you, you niedobry chłopczyku!!!