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Poland economy is a financially drained economy of suppliers?


Ziemowit 13 | 4,032
21 Oct 2015 #1
A report by the Kalecki Foundation for the National Bank of Poland says that foreign enterprises operating in Poland benefit from generous economic support offered to them by the Polish state, whereas half of the non-financial enterprises said they made no profits in 2013 and as a consequence paid no Corporate Income Tax (CIT) in Poland.

The effective rate of CIT paid by foreign companies was 1,2% lower than paid by the rest of the Polish taxpayers - says the report.

The present structure of our economy focuses on an economic model based on the low costs of labour which may result in maintaining the role of Poland as a peripheral country in the world's economy.

The contribution of wages to the Polish GDP has been sliding down all the time since 2001 and is now 10 percentage points below the average for the EU as a whole.which places Poland (58% in 1999 against 48% in 2013) at the end of the OECD 2001-2012 ranking along with Mexico. In the same period the mean labour productivity in Poland rose 3,3% in a year while wages rose only by 0,9% a year.

An increasingly smaller number of people draw profits from this increased productivity of the Polish workforce - concludes the report of the Kalecki Foundation.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
21 Oct 2015 #2
A sort of "master of the obvious".

foreign enterprises operating in Poland benefit from generous economic support offered to them by the Polish state

That's because we have had pretty much the same economic policy since 90's, it had some good sides back then but is totally outdated since at least a decade. When you are a mid income country trying to catch up with the best, completely different approach is needed. Even some people in current "government" know that but If your main objective is being praised abroad and getting some jobs in Brussels for your people, not much can be done.

Merged: Poland among the most financially drained countries in the world.

$80 billion stolen out of our economy in 2008-13 alone.

gfintegrity.org

Damn parasites.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
31 Jan 2016 #3
Lies, damned lies and statistics. Its not all one way flow.

theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/01/eu-poland-10-years-economic
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
1 Feb 2016 #4
So I posted a report from the Washington based think-tank focused on tax evasion & money laundering and you posted... editorial of some lefty Nigerian dude...
polishinvestor 1 | 362
1 Feb 2016 #5
It doesnt matter where it is written or who wrote it as long as its accurate. You cant deny the money and investment hasnt come in. Foreign corps fill holes in the market. Polish enterprise couldnt offer a solution for Polish people at the time so foreign corps did. There is no hard and fast rule that only foreign corps can succeed, The Polish people chose to do business with foreign corps as they were getting a better deal with them than what was on offer at the time. And for what its worth the likes of Google dont pay taxes anywhere, thats the cost of them operating in you region, providing jobs, skils and investment. Its a two way street, coc za cos, but you can be sure if there is a better way of doing something, or one that makes more sense for business or consumer, someone will quickly come along and do it.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
30 Sep 2016 #6
Merged: Morawiecki becomes super boss of Poland's ecomomy

Deputy Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki in charge of economic development was given the additional posts of finance minister and head of the government's newly formed Economic Committee. He replaces Paweł Szałamacha, the hitherto finance minister. The economy's new super-boss is known for his Morawiecki Plan to build a strong and independent national economy, promote indigenous Polish entrepreneurship and recognizable Polish brands. Previous government largely served foreign-interest groups, selling off the country's industrial assets at knock-down prices and giving tax breaks and other preferential treatment to foreign corporations.
peterweg 37 | 2,321
30 Sep 2016 #7
They are abolishing the Treasury aren't they? I wonder how that will go down with the markets.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
30 Sep 2016 #8
the markets

The so-called "markets" are guided only by their own selfish interests. Morawiecki's plan is designed to help and promote the Polish nation's economy first and foremost.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
13 May 2017 #9
Poland's ecomomy

After over a year of anti-Polish ratings caused by the presistent, unrelenting snitchery by Poland's traitorous oppositon, thigns are returning to normal. The traitors who bashed their own country in the interaitonal froum managed to convince the ratings agencies that the Polish was in danger, which it never was.

Moody's expectation that the downside risks to the fiscal stance that led to the negative outlook one year ago "are abating," the agency said in a statement on Friday.

Since winning the 2015 general election in Poland, the ruling Law and Justice (PiS) party managed to narrow the fiscal deficit in 2016 to 2.4 percent of GDP from 2.6 percent the previous year.

Moody's added that the investment climate under PiS did not significantly deteriorate. Fear of such a deterioration was among the factors behind the agency's decision to lower Poland's outlook from stable to negative last year. Friday's announcement reversed that downgrade.

"Despite some increase in policy uncertainty post-2015 elections, the evidence does not suggest that the investment climate has materially weakened," Moody's said. Moody's should apologise that such an experienced agency got deceived by a the incessant badmouthing of desperate political losers. And they're still at it. Moody's

has seen through them, but a new sucker is born every minute (as the famous American circus mogul rightly noted).
Spike31 3 | 1,722
24 Jan 2020 #10
Polish carrier LOT acquires German airline Condor

uk.reuters.com/article/uk-thomas-cook-condor-sale-lot/polish-carrier-lot-acquires-german-airline-condor-idUKKBN1ZN0PE

And just a few years ago a previous PO government wanted to sell LOT cheap to a German Air Berlin (which is now bancrupt) ...
Crow 139 | 8,148
24 Jan 2020 #11
Good. Gooood. It is wise to buy from Germany, while that rogue state still exist, while complete state didn`t bankrupt.
OP Ziemowit 13 | 4,032
24 Jan 2020 #12
LOT acquires German airline Condor

How much have they paid for it?
Crow 139 | 8,148
24 Jan 2020 #13
I always said here that LOT promising a lot of. Some didn`t believe. Now they see.

Poland is in the move and finally expanding westward.
Wincig 2 | 210
24 Jan 2020 #14
Ha, ha.. Condor was a loss making business (-14€ mios at operating level in 2017) subsidiary of bankrupt UK tour operator Thomas Cook and is being bought by a half bankrupt airline.. As the German environment Minister once said (admittedly talking about another topic), "it is not by putting two cripples together that you get an Olympic swimmer"!!
OP Ziemowit 13 | 4,032
24 Jan 2020 #15
a loss making business (-14€ mios at operating level in 2017)

Such a loss is not that big for a nedium-size airline like Condor..
Spike31 3 | 1,722
24 Jan 2020 #16
Thomas Cook was generating losses, Condor was an asset generating profits which sank with its parent company. Condor stands for 7 million German customers a year and a fleet of 50 airplanes. A good asset and a tool for the expansion of LOT on the German market.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
24 Jan 2020 #17
Condor still has to pay the millions back it got from the german gov to help it survive (and so to secure the jobs) after the disaster that was Thomas Cook....or has LOT now to pay the money back?

dw.com/en/germany-condor-to-keep-flying-thanks-to-government-loan/a-50572138

Ah...update....found it:

...In a statement Condor and LOT, which is owned by PGL, said they would pay back the loan from Germany in its entirety....

reuters.com/article/us-thomas-cook-condor-sale-lot/polish-carrier-lot-acquires-german-airline-condor-idUSKBN1ZN0OA

Nice!

I had to smile at this one though:

...Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki, whose cabinet is nationalist, told a news conference on Friday: "Up until now foreign companies have been taking over Polish precious assets, now it is the other way round!" ....

Well...that's called Globalism! It wasn't an anti-polish invention by them EU neo-marxists!!! :):):)
Torq 32 | 2,897
24 Jan 2020 #18
I just checked this Condor airlines, and their planes look a bit outdated to be honest...

de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legion_Condor
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
24 Jan 2020 #19
So what!

If the jobs are secured, who cares...but better it be Poles than Chinese...I'm pro-Europe!
Torq 32 | 2,897
24 Jan 2020 #20
So what!

It was a joke... Legion Condor... like in the link, no? I'll get my coat...
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
24 Jan 2020 #21
Heh:) Totally missed that.... *get's red faced and follows Torqi out*
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
24 Jan 2020 #22
A good asset

It's amazing how financially illiterate most nationalists are. This purchase comes with significant and serious liabilities, not only with the repayments to Germany, but also the need to take on Condor's pensions and other liabilities.

Condor's fleet is aging and needs replacing, which means LOT will have to shoulder the costs of new planes - effectively, Polish taxpayers will be taking on the risk of operating a German airline that wasn't exactly a desirable purchase. The operation has been relying on a 380m EUR bridging loan, and the only other players in the game were asset strippers. That alone is a good reason to stay away, and the only end result is LOT having to subsidise Condor.

The method that LOT are using in Poland won't work in Germany (widespread abusive use of self employment contracts), and Lufthansa are already responsible for the short haul feed into Condor's long haul network. If Lufthansa stop cooperating, where will they get the short haul feed from?

Look at Condor's fleet: planespotters.net/airline/Condor - it's an aging fleet which is highly vulnerable to fuel costs. If Norwegian are struggling with a modern 787 fleet, what hope does Condor have with the 757/767?

At the end of the day, LOT were the only airline in the running for a reason: the purchase makes zero sense if the goal is to make money.

It is, however, funny to see Spike advocate for socialist solutions for private businesses. Whatever happened to "free market", I wonder?
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,528
24 Jan 2020 #23
It's amazing how financially illiterate most nationalists are.

Before you dump anything on "nationalists", check if anybody got a bribe or was promised a more legal form of payoff later. Like a nice job for himself, his kids, and his friends.

These were not "nationalists" who hired a know-nothing lowlife in Ukraine.
Tacitus 2 | 1,011
24 Jan 2020 #24
German newspaper articles have described the deal as very beneficial for Condor, with LOT carrying all the risk. Let us hope that it works out well for both.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
24 Jan 2020 #25
very beneficial for Condor, with LOT carrying all the risk

Yup, it's essentially the best possible outcome for Condor. The other proposals were from asset strippers, so instead of Condor simply being slowly liquidated, the Polish taxpayer will now shoulder the burden of their liabilities.

It says a lot that no other airline saw any potential in this purchase.
Spike31 3 | 1,722
24 Jan 2020 #26
@Tacitus @delphiandomine you amuse me :-)

And now let LOT consume a corporate synergy with Condor and digest this crushing defeat of acquiring a major German leisure airline...

If the jobs are secured, who cares...but better it be Poles than Chinese...

So you admit that money has nationality? :-)
Tacitus 2 | 1,011
24 Jan 2020 #27
And now let LOT consume a corporate synergy with Condor and digest this crushing defeat of acquiring a major German leisure airline

Why would anyone consider this as a defeat, and to whom by whom? Condor was almost bankrupt and the only alternative to selling them whole would have been to divide their assets which would have put thousands of jobs at risk. Those are now secure for the time being. Since Condor had nothing to lose, it is the buyer LOT who carries the risk. Apparantly that risk seemed worth it to LOT, let us hope it works out. Because honestly, one article I've read was rather pessimistic about Condors' future, due to its' outdated fleet and because it currently relies an an agreement with Lufthansa to transport its' passengers from one airport to another, which might be now at risk if Lufthansa felt threatened.

So you admit that money has nationality?

When you deal with non-European countries, sure. At least with Poland, we know that they will abide to European employment rules, and they are as an ally not a security risk. German experience with Chinese companies has taught as extreme caution, and cooperation with European companies is for the reasons mentioned above a lot safer.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
25 Jan 2020 #28
So you admit that money has nationality? :-)

Once China's economy isn't used by the chinese communist party for economical and political gains anymore I won't complain anylonger.

But as it is it's the age of the foundation and building of economical/political blocs and I would prefer Europe on top, thank you very much.

And that's also one of the reasons why the idea of Poland alone is so fruitless and senseless when the big blocs will divide the world between themselves. The idea that Poland could play an important role outside the EU, that it would have a voice which would count for anything is ridiculous.

For you and for Germany and all other european countries is the EU the only chance to be seen as equals, to still play a role in this new world. To wish for it's destruction is like the end of the once proud polish Commonwealth because of inner polish squabbles all over again. Only this time it wouldn't only be Poland that would be partitioned by the smarter unified victors!

And this is also the reason why the EU, no matter the inner squabbles, will prevail...there are today more sane politicians around than in Poland back then...

and digest this crushing defeat of acquiring a major German leisure airline

Could it be that you took the german take over of polish firms also as "crushing defeats"? Was that Grünwald and the partitions and the world wars all over again for you? Was that hurting your self-esteem? Is that the reason you begrudge the Germans it's economical power?

Is that it? Is that all? Is that the reason why you want Poland out of the EU? Why you want to destroy the EU? It would explain so much!

My my my...Spikey...I have good news for you...in the future that will happen more and more. The more Poland rises up economically, the more money will be available and the more the polish economy gets connected to the other european economies the more often such deals will be made, all over Europe!

But that also is bad news for a Polexit....because the longer Poland stays in the EU and the more it get's interconnected inside the EU the higher would be the losses by a Polexit, especially the soon to be polish economical fat cats will not support you...they don't want their money cut by politics.

The money is globalist in the first place!
Spike31 3 | 1,722
25 Jan 2020 #29
@Bratwurst Boy, that was a joke. @Tacitus and @delphiandomine have painted Condor takeover in such a dark colours - for LOT - like it was a huge disaster for Polish Airlines to buy it :-) LOT has paid for this disaster now let them profit from it ;-)

Once China's economy isn't used by the chinese communist party for economical and political gains anymore I won't complain anylonger.

Russian economy - well, maybe not the actual economy since they don't really have that but a wast minieral resources anyway - is used by Putin for economical, political and military gains yet Germany has signed deals with them to build North Stream I and II... even in spite of concerns of Poland and Baltic States
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
25 Jan 2020 #30
LOT has paid for this disaster now let them profit from it ;-)

I'm all for it, as it means the personal get's to keep the jobs and bread on the table....who cares which corporation profits from it (as long as it isn't Chinese, but I said that already:)

yet Germany has signed deals with them to build North Stream I and II... even in spite of concerns of Poland and Baltic States

Yeah...well...that with North Stream develops slowly into a puzzle...nearly all in Germany are now against it...but Merkel! She keeps defending it...

*shrugs*


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