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Life in Poland - ECONOMY


Kashub1410 5 | 518
28 Jun 2022 #1
Prices are changing in Poland, inflation is happening. One bank is already being careful with giving out loans and prices of bread are increasing.

PiS governments Keynesian economical approach will only doom it further when people will realise what they are doing.

Złoty is going to change for the worse I reckon, going to put my earn money in crypto as Polish government has no influence over it. (Big middle finger to them)

What you guys think? Should Poland adopt it's own non-government crypto currency?

(To all you buy gold studs, I ain't planning on buying food with gold coins)
jon357 71 | 20,799
28 Jun 2022 #2
Should Poland adopt it's own non-government crypto currency?

What for?

How would that be taxed to the government's best benefit?

economical approach will only doom it further

Monetarism has never worked.

Poland is s developed country with large public infrastructure. This needs improving and funding well.
OP Kashub1410 5 | 518
28 Jun 2022 #3
What for?

For a working currency, so that society isn't at governments political whims to buy bread?

How would that be taxed to the government's best benefit?

That's like asking how is a wolf is to eat all the sheep if his teeth are pulled out. Are you being for real?

Public funding isn't gonna exist if inflation keeps going. It would lead to massive public job sackings! If the government prints more money instead of making it easier to produce goods and services it is going to be trouble! Additional currency that aren't restricted to public overspending will give a little bit of safety for the economy at least! Unless you want another Venezuela?!

No thanks!

As an answer to public funding: by donations as it should been
jon357 71 | 20,799
28 Jun 2022 #4
For a working currency

Poland has a working currency already.

As an answer to public funding: by donations

You can't run an army, the police, a medical system, an education system, roads, public transport, streetlighting, drainage and clean water and much besides on 'donations'.

Unless you want Poland to look like Africa.

Public funding isn't gonna exist

It is. And has done despite many cruises
OP Kashub1410 5 | 518
28 Jun 2022 #5
currency

At this very moment yes, Poland has a currency

If your goal is to run all of it. Sure, if one's goal is for it to function as best as possible. Definitively not!

The policies you wish for is closing Poland to a system that is used in Africa!!!!

To such a level that laws will have no effect! Government corruption incomprehensible! Money printed wildly! People on the whims of moneyprinters!

The currency belongs to the people! Not the whims of politicians and electoral needs!
jon357 71 | 20,799
28 Jun 2022 #6
At this very moment yes, Poland has a currency

And always has. They have good economists too.

To such a level that laws will have no effect!

They will. Even in the darkest times, society didn't completely break down in Poland.

The currency belongs to the people! Not the whims of politicians

Members of the Sejm are the directly elected representatives of the people.
OP Kashub1410 5 | 518
28 Jun 2022 #7
@jon357

And always has

That is a filthy lie, national currency is a newly created invention. To your information, it's then financial crises started to pop up and bobbles began to emerge. So you can cut the dung!

Different forms of currency were the norm in the past

We are not talking about break down of society but, unnecessary worsening of conditions.

And I wasn't talking about the Polish sejm, but the government.

It's a discussion on how it should be organised. Not in yes or no existence.

I could say publically I own 100 million fantasy coins! Doesn't change a thing if it ain't used.

Now when government says it is printing pieces of paper with numbers on signed by them with pictures it is fine? Even tho they aren't remotely representing ones share of goldbars within a bank. But just take their word for it?

Be naive if you want, but I ain't gonna be a fool as to bet my future and that of my future generations on that!
jon357 71 | 20,799
28 Jun 2022 #8
That is a filthy lie, national currency is a newly created invention

Poland has had a national currency for a very long time. It is not a "newly created invention".

And don't use insolent phrases like "that is a filthy lie".

To your information, it's then financial crises started to pop up and bobbles b

You probably meant to say bubbles rather than "bobbles". They are nothing new and, like cyclical financial crises, have happened for centuries.

And do not use insolent phrases like "So you can cut the dung" either.

Polish sejm, but the government

The government is run by parliament. They, with the Central Bank, determine fiscal policy.

Inflation comes and inflation goes. Money, however, is real. As are assets. Cryptocurrencies are not.

Consumers do not have to worry about what their currency is backed with unless they live in a free-market hell like Zimbabwe. In a developed, high-income economy with substantial infrastructure and a social safety-net like Poland, fiscal policy is better managed.
OP Kashub1410 5 | 518
28 Jun 2022 #9
And don't use insolent phrases like

I have little tolerance for thieves, liars and rapists and for those trying to provoke people to act it out.

And it is a newly created invention, you might have a timespan of minutes, I was thinking about last two thousand years.

Earlier it was Golden Ducats, first coin called Złoty wasn't until year 1663.

Interchangeably Polish gold or Floriance.
Golden Ducat also called Golden red.

If you think for a second that other forms of currency was unheard of within borders of Poland, then I am more then interested in learning how access to other currencies were enacted in such a way that it was illegal or impossible.

Bubbles/bobbles
English isn't my native language
I meant a financial situation where the unknown factor of actual money being used compared to over-borrowing resets itself regularly as to fix the mismatch of actual money being in circulation compared to people promising deals and trade when in all factuality it's not a possibility, due to scammers performing promises that bears no fruit or loans that aren't paid back in due time.

When that bottles up enough, there is a recess cause the situation becomes so unsteady that trust in the currency becomes so small that it's being used less and less.

Cryptocurrency is backed by the possibility of a fixed unChangeable number of currency being in use.

No government can guarantee it, there is allways a risk with populists printing money.

While BitCoin eliminated that possibility

So unless your interested in bribes, corruption and control over currency, I am not surprised over you backing old fashioned currency system
Anthonylas28
28 Jun 2022 #10
Thinking in terms of thousands of years is a sign that you might need a break from the internet.

You seem to be hinting at a gold standard approach, I'm sure that this is something that the Polish government are considering given the money printing of the last 15 years, you cannot blame PiS for the inflation, this is a global problem.

The utopian dream of a global bitcoin that is unable to be influenced by governments would effectively remove all national borders, because as jon357 points out, how can you effectively tax this, it's ******* insanity.
OP Kashub1410 5 | 518
28 Jun 2022 #11
@Anthonylas28
Higher amounts of taxes serves as a proof of a sick society that requires threat of violence to function!
jon357 71 | 20,799
28 Jun 2022 #12
And it is a newly created invention

Not very new. And it's a tried and tested system.

Higher amounts of taxes

Have you always lived in Poland, or have you lived elsewhere too? Somewhere with very little tax revenue and no pavements or traffic lights, with 80 to a class in school, no drains and hospitals you wouldn't want to enter?

you cannot blame PiS for the inflation, this is a global problem

On economic issues, they are actually sound. They have good advisors and work together with other large economies.
OP Kashub1410 5 | 518
28 Jun 2022 #13
@jon357
You don't know which kingdom I belong to
jon357 71 | 20,799
28 Jun 2022 #14
You don't know which kingdom

Which is why I asked.

Presumably not Poland, since it is not a kingdom, and presumably not one in the developing world or you wouldn't be advocating for low taxation.

there is allways a risk with populists printing money

In Poland, they do actually think about fiscal p9locy.

Cryptocurrency is backed by the possibility of a fixed unChangeable number of currency being in use

i.e. by nothing.
Anthonylas28
28 Jun 2022 #15
Saudi Arabia?
OP Kashub1410 5 | 518
28 Jun 2022 #16
Those who are supposed to know, know it already. There is no use for me to give you an answer jon
jon357 71 | 20,799
28 Jun 2022 #17
Probably because the answer is irrelevant.

Poland isn't a kingdom, unfortunately.

It is however a developed economy and has gone from being a middle-income country to a high income one.

Something relevant to the issue of currencies and Poland is that (although you're probably a bit too young to remember) when I first moved to Poland, people kept their savings in foreign currencies and sometimes paid for large items in them.

There's no need for that now, and reasons to avoid doing so, the Financial Times described the Frankowicze mortgage scandal where large numbers of Poles took out mortgages in a currency they didn't earn as "an act of collective insanity" which it was.
cms neuf - | 2,075
28 Jun 2022 #18
I would say keeping some of your savings in foreign currency is still a good idea - you never know when this government is going to do something really mental or when the general situation for emerging currencies will suddenly go bad. On top of that PiS don't seem to have any strategy apart from spending other people's money.

I have savings in Euro and Dollar as well as some in zloty. The zloty ones are now worth 14% less than they were, the euro ones are worth 6% less.
OP Kashub1410 5 | 518
28 Jun 2022 #19
@jon357
The answer is most certainly not irrelevant

With regard to insanity which a few users seem to mention:

Insanity is far more beautiful then the mind, as it derives from God.

The mind however from - man
jon357 71 | 20,799
28 Jun 2022 #20
I have savings in Euro and Dollar

I have Sterling, dollars and euros since I'm from one of those countries, get paid in another and somethings get the equivalent in a third. I try to keep dollars for emergencies and pounds for the rest. Plus, my bills are in zlotych.

It gets confusing enough without trusting in bits in the cloud, run by scammers and dependent on something non-existent and unregulated like a "blockchain".
Bobko 12 | 600
28 Jun 2022 #21
Złoty is going to change for the worse I reckon, going to put my earn money in crypto

That would be really stupid, IMHO. Bitcoin, and all the sh!tcoins that followed it, was created after The Great Recession of 2008. This is its first real test against a recession, and it has show what a great "inflation hedge" or "durable store of value" it really is. It's doing worse than the worst parts of the stock market, and weekly we hear of yet another project going belly up. If you hold on to your crypto, you're risking a total wipeout. I don't think crypto will ever go to zero, since drug dealers and prostitutes will always have a use for it - but a price of $200-300 is enough for this function.

The zloty ones are now worth 14% less than they were, the euro ones are worth 6% less.

All major currencies in the world are declining against the US dollar, except for the Ruble (for reasons everyone knows) and a handful of smaller currencies of commodity rich states. The reason for this decline is that the US Federal Reserve has decided to take the threat of inflation seriously, and has begun seriously hiking rates. The era of infinite money is coming to a rapid close. The 0.75% rate hike at the meeting two weeks ago, was the largest such hike since 1994. At the same time, the European and Japanese central banks have been more cautious (the ECB is looking at a 0.5% hike, which would be the biggest since the year 2000). This situation, where the US is leading the pack in fighting inflation, and others are still working under the old "infinite money" regime, is creating serious divergences in rates. If you can earn 3X more money holding US treasuries than German Bunds (I don't know what the exact number is now, just speaking figuratively), then of course money will flow into USD denominated assets.

If you want the zloty to be appreciating against the dollar, then you should also be prepared for the Polish CB to raise interest rates to 10-12%. This would mean mortgages, car payments, credit card bills, etc that are twice as expensive. It would mean a huge squeeze in investment by private capital, since bank loans would be out of reach for a lot of companies that were still able to borrow when rates were 6-7%.
cms neuf - | 2,075
28 Jun 2022 #22
Yes - I never touch crypto. Might make me a mug but I have enough risk in my life with eating, drinking and smoking too much
Bobko 12 | 600
28 Jun 2022 #23
@cms neuf

Another downside of an appreciating zloty - if that's what one wants - is it will be a Polish export killer. This is the reason why Japan is continuing with its negative interest rate of -0.1% as if it is 2011 outside, and inflation doesn't exist. Because their priorities are different. They want a cheap yen, to protect their companies competitiveness.

At the same time, a strong dollar is terrible for American exports. But after 15 years of a very weak dollar, the change was overdue - though it will be painful.
OP Kashub1410 5 | 518
28 Jun 2022 #24
@Bobko
Your talking as if crypto has no use :)
And that it won't grow again lol

It has come to stay and is the future technology in it's infancy. To my eyes you guys are still advocating for horse drawn wagons when railroad was being built. It's totally redundant from my point of view.

It's a panicking wholesale, yet you guys act as if it's going to disappear cause it suits you and think of it only as a short lived trend...

You guys are proverbial dinosaurs from the 20th century
Bobko 12 | 600
28 Jun 2022 #25
Your talking as if crypto has no use

It's good for paying for drugs, or sex - as I've said. It's good for avoiding sanctions. For pretty much everything else, fiat is better as a currency.

Most people who HODL coins, don't use them anyway. Why would you use BTC to pay for something, if you know your BTC will be worth more tomorrow?
jon357 71 | 20,799
28 Jun 2022 #26
I never touch crypto

One problem is that the here are over 70,000 'cryptocurrencies'. Most of them completely worthless.


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