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Poland's Economy Is Booming! The EU's Success Story?


rozumiemnic 8 | 3,664
25 May 2012  #391
So now we know... you dislike of the British then probably comes from your hatred of the Protestants!!!

Sorry that is bonkers, since when were British all 'Protestants'?
Where have I professed 'dislike' for the British?
How do you know what religion I am?
It's because of people like you making assumptions that I do not get involved in discussions about Ireland.

What makes you think this is interesting? Time for you to move on I think.
gdyniaguy 1 | 281
25 May 2012  #392
Where have I professed 'dislike' for the British?
How do you know what religion I am?

A) You keep throwing replies into my take on my the Empire was beneficial.
b) If you're not Catholiic then i'm the Pope. ;)
c) if i dont interest you then stop replying to me! TOOL!! UNDERSTAND??? or are you TOO THICK?
d) I personally dont give a stuff about ireland or religion. After all, all religion is lies and a means to get money from stupid and vunerable people or brain wash them into commiting terrible things!
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,664
25 May 2012  #393
If you're not Catholiic then i'm the Pope. ;)

OK il papa kiss the ground.
There is no need to be abusive just because somebody has a different point of view to yourself, it's the sign of a poor mind and a lack of education.

You were the one who started about religion and Ireland, although it did seem a bit of a non sequiter to me at the time, yes.

I just meant your family pedigree really isn't interesting, any more than mine would be.
Owned.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
25 May 2012  #394
I think it's a fair observation and it should encourage us to ask if that is really "booming" and how long it'll last. Interpret that how you will.

75% of the money in a Plasma TV is the manufacturing. The profit that goes to Korea is probably 5%, which makes his comments irrelevant. The UK has a huge manufacturing base and a large amount of it is foreign, Ford lost Billions on Jaguar - Britain still got paid.

When it comes to personal attacks, you are not so innocent.

Almost every you say to me is a personal insult. Read your previous reply. I reply in kind to you.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
25 May 2012  #395
Hi Foreigner...An outsider cannot judge what is going on inside another country just by brandishing a few 'goverment' figures. Ask people form here in Poland where they are and ask about personal experiences and make your mind up from that

Thanks for taking the time to write that up- it is well written.
It's not just WB's imagination then?
This is an issue people should be addressing imo.

75% of the money in a Plasma TV is the manufacturing. The profit that goes to Korea is probably 5%, which makes his comments irrelevant. The UK has a huge manufacturing base and a large amount of it is foreign, Ford lost Billions on Jaguar - Britain still got paid.

Another good response.
What do you mean by "Britain still got paid?" Which people got paid
Who is "Britain?"
Does whoever "Poland" is have the same deal as whoever "Britain" is/was?
peterweg 36 | 2,316
25 May 2012  #396
Back on topic

DCT Gdańsk expected to join world's top ports

In the next two years DCT Gdańsk will find itself among the world's top 100 seaports, reported Puls Biznesu.

This is a result of the completion of the port's new €250 million cargo terminal, which will enable it to increase the number of containers from 650,000 a year to 900,000.

The port is also preparing a further investment to create a second terminal worth at least €250 million. The new terminal is planned to begin operating by 2015, and once completed DCT Gdańsk will qualify as one of the top 30 ports in the world in terms of the amount of containers passing through it each year.

wbj.pl/article-59226-dct-gdansk-expected-to-join-worlds-top-ports.html

Ikea opens new factory in Poland

The Ikea Group has officially opened a factory in Koszki, Podlaskie voivodship, in northeastern Poland, Rzeczpospolita reported. The new plant includes a shop that produces ultra-thin furniture boards, as well as a sawmill and a foiling shop.

According to the Polish Information and Foreign Investment Agency the factory, which has been partially funded by the EU Innovative Economy Programme, was the largest foreign investment in Poland in 2010. Construction on the scheme lasted for nearly two years and cost €140 million.

Some 250 workers are currently employed in the facility.

Swedspan, an Ikea Group company, plans to build a technological center in Koszyki to design new materials for Ikea. The investment will cost €2.6 million.

wbj.pl/article-59225-ikea-opens-new-factory-in-poland.html
gdyniaguy 1 | 281
25 May 2012  #397
Sorry if i offended you... but my point was to show that whatever the English (Empire) did in the past makes my no less proud of it's achievments.
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
25 May 2012  #398
nothin' for nothin', but didn't just about all of Poland's laborers up there skip town to the Scandanavian countries where the pay is like a gazillion times better? but hey, if the money was spent, i guess they see enough people willing to run it.

Some 250 workers are currently employed in the facility.

I don't mean to nit pick this but dude, 250? You said this was "back on topic" but hell, a mere 250 workers in Middleofnowhere Zdroj is hardly contributing to an economic boom. It's a big corp saying to themselves, "how can we make our cheap furniture for the least amount of money? Oh, I know, drop a factory in the boonies of Poland and pay them pennies to do it." It's remedial work done by uneducated Poles, run by wealthy foreigners. Basically, what the USA does with China.
gdyniaguy 1 | 281
25 May 2012  #399
Fuzzy... Peter will come out with some statistical lie that will dispell all of what you have just said. Please be warned! 250 workers for how long... if they earn 2000zl a month now next year 2300zl and so on how long before they become too expensive. Add to that the fact that they will probably make 1/2 the amount of sets because low wages = low moral + low production. There is a reason why Nissan havn't moved all of their european producion here and a reason why GM are keeping production in Merseyside. Polish workers are generally lazy and tend not to think outside of the box! But are cheap ;)
peterweg 36 | 2,316
25 May 2012  #400
When you host a factory the wages get paid and the many various suppliers get paid. Overall the input in vastly more than the workers directly employed, often 4 workers outside for each directly employed with cars. Bottom line is the suppliers and resources to factories are usually local and make up the vast majority of the value of the items sold.

In the case of Ford, it injected around 10m billion dollars into Jaguar on top of the sales of billions over many years, p[lus it paid for the business to start with. It never saw any profit. The UK economy (suppliers), employees and tax many got everything Ford invested.

New jobs, tax revenues and general economic recovery - is, according to local authorities, the main benefit of such a large investment, which is the company's new factory in Koszkach Ikea in Orla.

The value of this investment is 140 million euros (627.2 million zł), of which the EU Programme Innovative Economy comes 145.7 million zł. Ultimately - to mid-2012 - has 250 people working here. Investor - Swedspan company which is a subsidiary of Ikea - already noted the work of 100 people. The investment in the evaluation of the Polish Information and Foreign Investment (PAIiIZ) was the largest in 2010, foreign investment in Poland.

Peter Selwesiuk, Mayor Orla, in which the plant is located, told PAP that you've seen the changes related to the investment company. This example. An increase in property prices, but they also have greater turnover. Are also created new jobs. According to him, it really impact of investments on the development of the municipality will be seen in a few years, when the budget will affect not only the property taxes (currently approx. 300 thousand. Zł per year), but also from the buildings. It may even be a few million dollars per year, with a budget of Orli at approx. 8 million zł.

Selwesiuk recalled that initially Ikea take into account seventeen locations in Poland. When asked about the situation in the municipality said that part of the land belonged to the state, the majority of private owners. As he said, the price for the property was excessive state above the real value.
He recalled that the problem was also their odrolnienie. "The state apparatus can not function in this way: the investor, the money, the location, and the state says we first earn on the sale of land (...), and then maybe odrolnimy, maybe not" - he added Selwesiuk. In his opinion, the problems of land decultivation delayed the construction of six months.
Please help Google Translate improve quality for your language here.
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bialystok.naszemiasto.pl/artykul/957649,pra ca-podatki-korzysci-z-nowej-fabryki-ikei-w-koszkach,id,t.html&usg=ALkJ rhi_YuKGwjWn_FruFneof__eVLsgXw

There are local taxes etc for the site use. This factory will also change add straight onto Poland's GDP, reduce its balance of trade and add massive value to the raw materials, in addition to the millions in income taxes.
milky 13 | 1,657
25 May 2012  #401
Once again I give this link

Poland is closer to a depression rather than a boom.

Romania and Bulgaria must be booming as well.

numbeo.com/cost-of-living/gmaps.jsp
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
25 May 2012  #402
which will inject at least 50million pln into the Polish government coffers each year for the supplied wood. otehr suppliers will profit too, for everything from glue to coffee to machinery.

Okay, I got what you're saying. If that is the case then it looks like you've made a pretty good case.
So how do we rectify that perspective with what gdyniaguy commented on?
Both your observations or interpretations seem very valid but juxtaposed from eachother (in my mind) and I'm having trouble rationalizing both ideas (the cost of living getting out of hand and the notion that the country is booming).

Help anyone?
milky 13 | 1,657
25 May 2012  #403
Help anyone?

Don't get caught up in the BS

The facts speak for themselves
Why else would Poland have had such mass emigration since 2004?
The average house cost about 10-15 times your annual wage
Price of petrol
Average wage about 3 euro an hour Net.
About what?? billion and half euros pumped into the country from Poles abroad every year

This argument is like denying that there's lots of sand in the Sahara.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
25 May 2012  #404
That's what I'm getting at.
If Poland is booming (and to be fair the points for it are there) then what's the problem?
Is it fair to say "Poland is booming?" Maybe it shouldn't be an all or nothing statement to begin with?
peterweg 36 | 2,316
25 May 2012  #405
Both your observations or interpretations seem very valid but juxtaposed from eachother (in my mind) and I'm having trouble rationalizing both ideas (the cost of living getting out of hand and the notion that the country is booming).

Each isn't mutually exclusive. UK is a rich country, its also expensive to live there. However, the richer you (i.e. your wages in your local currency) are the less the raw material cost for the things you want to live on and buy. The most important of these is energy- oil, gas , petrol, electricity becuase fundamentally everything is the cost of its energy use in production and delivery.

If your wage is low you have to spend a bigger proportion of your wage on the basics becuase a larger part of the cost is the commodity/energy cost.

If your wages are higher (in relation to dollars) and the cost of living higher you end up better off becuase the money you have left over after paying for basics is more 'powerful', plus the amount you spend on basics should be a smaller part of your wage.

Is it fair to say "Poland is booming?" Maybe it shouldn't be an all or nothing statement to begin with?

You are correct, its not. Milky is being disingenuous becuase he knows damn well Ireland went through the same process and it resulted in them have wages far higher than most of europe plus the ability to aford to buy property all over the world.

They totally ****** it up by joining the euro and the EU bankers didn't control it properly.. Even so the unemployment benift alone is a sign how well they have done from a boom like Poland is now going through.

Milky just wants Poland to stay poor so he can profit on property. Typical Irish (sorry Granma).
TheOther 5 | 3,643
25 May 2012  #406
If your wages are higher (in relation to dollars) and the cost of living higher you end up better off becuase the money you have left over after paying for basics is more 'powerful', plus the amount you spend on basics should be a smaller part of your wage.

High salaries -> high standard of living -> lots of people moving in -> exorbitant cost of living. Examples: the Bay Area or NYC.

The only advantage you will have is that you are residing in a sought-after location. If you'll end up with more money in your pockets after deducting all expenses, that I would question.
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
25 May 2012  #407
In the case of the Ikea factory indirect jobs will be created, probably around a thousand.

which will inject at least 50million pln into the Polish government coffers each year for the supplied wood.

Overall the input in vastly more than the workers directly employed, often 4 workers outside for each directly employed with cars.

where in the world do you come up with these numbers?
milky 13 | 1,657
25 May 2012  #408
once again
The heading of this page is

Poland's Economy Is Booming! The EU's Success Story?

I'm not getting involved in tit for tat , let stick with the facts
Don't get caught up in the BS

The facts speak for themselves
Why else would Poland have had such mass emigration since 2004?
The average house cost about 10-15 times your annual wage
Price of petrol
Average wage about 3 euro an hour Net.
About what?? billion and half euros pumped into the country from Poles abroad every year

This argument is like denying that there's lots of sand in the Sahara
Hipis - | 227
25 May 2012  #409
Polish workers are generally lazy

As compared to these British ones?
peterweg 36 | 2,316
25 May 2012  #410
I'm not getting involved in tit for tat , let stick with the facts

You are missing the facts, economic growth is not the cost of living.
Wroclaw Boy
25 May 2012  #411
Ok, but stop telling people the don't know anything about Poland becuse they don't live here when you don't live here.

I thought you were all about providing links and articles? When you thought i lived in Poland you basically dismissed my observations but now you seem to think you have an angle because you discovered i dont live there. Whether i live there or not at this moment in time is irrelivant, i have more than enough experience to justify the statements. I have been directly involved in numerous Polish businesses, Ive been travelling there regularly since 2002 and lived there for almost 6 years from late 2005.

Your experience is what exactly? you have an overseas IT related income, anything else?

Its difficult for me to keep quiet with people like you arouind, i mean in one thread we have you talking about the Polish economy and property prices but in another youre saying communist blocks last 200 years and that Gdynia is a godforsaken country village.

Providing people with jobs and giving them an income is a bad thing according to you? Boy O Boy, you are thicker than i thought. Still waiting for the economist, don't be shy.

I never said big business was bad, thats what you assumed i meant, I said big businesses only cares about them selves. Most of the Poles working at LG as with most of the other big companies are paid peanuts. In LG Phillips in Tyniec Maly the managerial positions are mainly held by Koreans.

Its obvious that these types of companies will employ Poles theyre not exaclty going to import workers (although they would if they could) they wouldnt be alllowed to set up if they didnt employ locals.

His entire argument is that his person experience out weights not only all the scientific evidence but the personal experience of anyone else.

Wrong again, where have i said Polands GDP is not positive or not growing? my argument is that Polands growth is not reflected in the standard of living. Whats your argument?

So now he's switched to Ad hominem attacks, the last stand of the desperate.

I wouldnt call it a switch. I'll be here till the last weg make no mistake about that, you shouldnt assume so much.

If Poland is booming (and to be fair the points for it are there) then what's the problem?
Is it fair to say "Poland is booming?" Maybe it shouldn't be an all or nothing statement to begin with?

Thats a good summary.

I think many assumed too much following Polands EU accession, on many levels there was over speculation, the big businesses had seen the booms in countries such as Ireland and Spain following their accessions and pounced on Poland in a bid not to miss the boat, there was a premature property boom also. The current property boom is a perfect example of what happens when people speculate prematurely, it is absolutely rediculous.

Weg: If a reporter called me for an interview and published an extended version of the above with tables and graphs in a respected paper would it then become a credible source?

The funny thing about people like weg and their opinions is that he has a foreign income, if that little safety net was pulled out from underneath him he would be financially wiped out in a country like Poland. He is essentially a back seat driver.
Ironside 47 | 9,622
26 May 2012  #412
Polish workers are generally lazy and tend not to think outside of the box! But are cheap ;)

Write what you see not what you think. Thinking is not your forte obviously.
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
26 May 2012  #413
I never said big business was bad

Those are the clear implications of your words, what you are saying is just plain stupid full stop
strzyga 2 | 993
26 May 2012  #414
as for boat building the Polish goverment has been threatened with action on numerous occasions regarding state handouts to the Polish shipyards

I'm talking about yacht building companies, privately owned, not about the big shipyards. Have you ever had a look at the link I provided? Here are some more:

business.inquirer.net/6893/smooth-sailing-for-made-in-poland-yachts
synfo.com/IYR/MarketRpts/BusRptPoland69.pdf

Check out Mantra, Delphia, Sunreef, among others.

The top and bottom of it is that the UK and the British people created the world that we live in through the Empire and through the industrial revolution.

So you feel British when talking of the industrial revolution which took place 200 years ago, but you're not British anymore when it comes to Yalta and South African genocide, which happened 150 years later? That's a very convenient stance.
Wroclaw Boy
26 May 2012  #415
Those are the clear implications of your words, what you are saying is just plain stupid full stop

Its basec economics, Germany owns huge companies like BMW, Bosch, Audi, Mercedes, Seimens etc and thats why Germany is the worlds no:1 exporter and the Economic power house of Europe. I guarantee they will not set up any plants in Poland unless its financially beneficial for the company and in turn Germany.

I brokered deals in Poland for firms to set up large businesses, i set up a UK company with over 6000 m2 of industrial warehousing, I can assure you they werent in Poland to help the Polish economy. A few hundred Poles may have gotten work but essentially they were primarily there for cheap rent and cheap labour.

I repeat "big businesses only care about themselves" and profit. Anything need clarifying for you?

You are young but you will learn.

Even so the unemployment benift alone is a sign how well they have donefrom a boom like Poland is now going through.

Ahh so you are actually saying that Poland is booming, i know you mentioned Krakow was booming before but not Poland.
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
26 May 2012  #416
I repeat "big businesses only care about themselves" and profit. Anything need clarifying for you?

It a stupid argument to make. By setting up "big Business" creates jobs, and pays taxes, so not only do the people employed by business benefit, but so does the whole country because of the money poring into state coffers. Many businesses even go beyond the call of duty by giving money to charities etc.

Obviously businesses make profits, without making a profit they wouldn't exist. And condemning them for making a profit is moronic, its like hating humans for eating because they want to stay alive. And my observation of a booming Poland, because of all the construction i witnessed is far more valid than yours, about people not buying junk in supermarkets.
Wroclaw Boy
26 May 2012  #417
because of all the construction i witnessed is far more valid then yours about people not buying junk in supermarkets.

I didnt say people were not buying junk in supermarkets, i made a comparison between disposable incomes in the UK and Poland

And condemning them for making a profit is moronic,

I didnt condemn businesses for making profits

its like hating humans for eating because they want to stay alive.

It might be if i actually said it.

______________________________________________________________________

Whats your stance on Polands economy? you must have family and friends there, how are their standards of living? Be honest
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
26 May 2012  #418
It a stupid argument to make.

It's not an argument, it's a fact and how you can try to debate that is puzzling.
NorthMancPolak 4 | 648
26 May 2012  #419
So you feel British when talking of the industrial revolution which took place 200 years ago, but you're not British anymore when it comes to Yalta and South African genocide, which happened 150 years later? That's a very convenient stance.

It's not a fair comparison, to be honest.

Most of the advancements made during the Industrial Revolution were made by fairly ordinary people (e.g. James Hargreaves) many of whom didn't even make much money out of their work, even if some obtained funding from the rich and powerful.

On the other hand, the rich and powerful are solely responsible for all colonisations, enslavements, invasions and wars since time immemorial.

So most ordinary Britons have plenty to be proud of when it comes to things like the Industrial Revolution, but have no reason to feel guilty about the things you mentioned.

A modern comparison would go something like this: "So you feel British when speaking of Sir Tim Berners-Lee, but you're not British when someone mentions the war criminal who ordered the invasion of Iraq?". ;)
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
26 May 2012  #420
Whats your stance on Polands economy? you must have family and friends there, how are their standards of living? Be honest

Sure, I will start with my dad's side of the family: Some of them are doing well others not so well, pretty much like every family the world over. My cousin works as a doctor in his mother's practice, my niece is studying medicine in Krakow. My other cousin is still in high school, so are his two sisters. His oldest sister works as a salesperson for a perfume store in London. Two of my aunties are doctors, one is a teacher. One of my uncles works as a pod Stygar (middle management) in a coal mining company, his wife works as a teacher. One of my uncles is unemployed, but its more to do with his willingness to work and mental health.

My mother's side of the family: there isn't much to tell since she is an only child, I do have some second cousins who are involved in business and construction.

As to my stance I am guessing you would have worked it out by now. I am obviously very excited about the transformation taking place in Poland, its something that would have been never dreamed of 20 years ago. Obviously I realize that the country still has a way to go, but they should reach a standard of living that resembles contentment (if the is possible since Polish people are very hard to satisfy) in probably no more than 15 years time.


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