Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia?

The only kind of explanation I can think of would be that they told the troops of inhuman torture and folter should they become prisoners of the ukrainian army...making that murder to a kind of rescue/relief from a most cruel fate....or something...

It cannot be stopped, to try to do so - would be suicidal, not just for the individual but likely for the Russian state as well.

They say that "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". Russia's history is the best example of this.

1) The "good" Decembrists... in their drive for liberalism - freaked out the Tsar to such an extent, that we got an autocratic backlash that lasted for nearly half a century. While Europe modernized, we sat in a dark dungeon, thanks to their work.

2) The "good" Democrats in the Spring of 1917 succeeded in toppling the monarchy and burying the empire. They also lost us WW1, which led to the independence of Finland, Poland, the Baltics. They plunged the country into a Civil War. They handed it over, ultimately, to the Bolsheviks.

3) The "good" and "virtuous" Gorbachev, destroyed the largest country on Earth, destroyed our alliances, and plunged the country into two decades of poverty. China meanwhile, carefully took notes, and instead ran their own people over with tanks in a public square. Now China has one of the largest economies in the world, and we export mainly oil and metals.

The "good guys" don't really have a good reputation in Russia. They usually make things much worse. Only some nice literature, some nice music, and some nice art can be considered a positive side effect.

Not in the GDR....in East-Germany he is still revered and adored....he was the one who said "Nyet" to the begging of East-Berlin to please, please, please send the tanks, to make the Alexanderplatz to another Tiananmen and end this silly revolution!

I guess it's the viewpoint....ones freedom is always another ones destruction.

Is there really much worse than shooting your own wounded soldiers? Much worse than waging a brotherly war for 3 years already and without end in sight? Much worse than becoming a de facto Chinese vassal, dependent on Iran and North Korea for war materials supplies?

Come on, Bobi. Russia is better than that. The best (and the first!) thing to do when you want to get out of a deep hole is to stop digging. Sorry for stating the obvious.

I like Bobko because most of what he says here aligns with my understanding of Russians and Russia issues. It means I understand Russia.

If China followed Gorbachev's example and greeted the people on Tianamen Square with flowers and candies - there would be no China now. At least, not as we know it now - as a Great Power.


I'm sure Uyghurs and Tibetans also view things differently than the Han Chinese.


Why don't you try evacuating that wounded soldier yourself? When you are lying by his side, similarly full of shrapnel - with a Ukrainian drone hovering above you, recording your death for Twitter and Facebook - perhaps it would make you view things differently?

Evacuation is often impossible in this war - unless you are advancing. Because we are advancing, we are able to return to the Ukrainians ten times the amount of bodies they are able to return to us.

As the battlefield starts becoming your rear, it's easy enough to go and collect all the bodies and ship em back to the Ukrainians. The Ukrainians are only able to send us back the bodies that pile up after an UNSUCCESSFUL assault.

-//-

The few videos I had seen, where Russian soldiers appear to shoot wounded comrades - it's clear that the wounded person is the one requesting it.

Besides concern for the men that will likely get killed trying to evacuate you... there is also the fact that Ukrainian drone operators are sadists. They will taunt a wounded man by flying around him in circles. They'll play games with him.

Nobody wants to be a clown for Ukrainians in the last 15 minutes of his life.

--//--

There are uncrewed ground drones now that do much of the evacuation work. Basically a remotely controlled cart. The wounded guy only has to be able to climb inside, and then the drone will carry him back to his lines.

Hmm... if you put it this way.


Amazing how drones changed the battlefields.

Sometimes the person is so bent out of shape, that he cannot climb into the cart. I've seen several such videos.

At this point, several of his friends might reappear from some collection of bushes, toss him into the drone, and then immediately run back for cover.

If it's the second echelon of an attack arriving on a BMP - the BMP might deploy smoke and do a little half circle around the wounded man - obscuring vision - and then try to pick him up fast.

Sometimes nobody comes - and you have to either shoot yourself, or try to crawl back to your lines.

--///--

According to the best estimates, Russia has suffered approximately 1 million casualties in this war thus far. Of that, approximately 110-150K are Killed in Action. A further 250-350K are otherwise irreplaceable losses (amputations, mostly).

But the other half a million suffered superficial or non-incapacitating injuries and were likely returned into action. There are cases where a single infantryman suffered 7 or more injuries, and each time returned to fight.

So "evacuation" does happen - and in large numbers. "Battlefield medicine" exists - and is in much better shape than 2022 (when it was embarrassing to compare our first aid kits to the Western ones Ukraine was provided with).

In fact, Belousov (the new minister of defense), has made "battlefield medicine" an especial priority. Now everyone has top quality tourniquets and clotting agents.

The drones used for evacuating casualties is also his introduction largely.

And what have you gotten for it? Why aren't you upset at the russian government for destroying russia's international reputation?

whine whine whine... nobody respects us.... whine whine whine..... russophobia..... whine whine whine.... so tiresome.

Fair play to him.

I think you told me about him when he became the minister - a devout Christian and a servant of Saint Virgin Mary (or am I confusing him with someone else?).

In pure mathematical terms - we lost several hundred thousand men, but gained approximately 3-5 million additional citizens.

Through this kind of Satanic math - the war is providing good returns.

Take into account the coal, the metals, the gas, the rare earths - and you could really make an argument that the investment "works".

If you are especially cynical - you could argue that we lost a "lower quality" of material than the Ukrainians. Convicts, chronically unemployed, low education, low income... vs yesterday's "lawyers", "doctors", "film directors", "businessmen", etc.

Their losses are truly irreparable.... ours not so much.


Yes. Prays 5 times a day, like a Muslim. Begins every morning by spending an hour in his private chapel, conversing with the Virgin.

For this reason, many people think he's not "all right" in the head.

❤️

Truly a knight! I'd rather have him as a friend than an enemy.


Peasants.

With a different one every day?

Bobko wrote 'the Virgin' - with 'the' and capital 'V', so stop asking retarded questions.

I asked Bobko, he has more humor.

you mean slaves since they have no recourse against government repression and have to pretend to support retarded russian laws...

you enjoy doing that?

...as opposed to the recourse we had when 15,000 of foreign garbage was pouring in every single day because our senile dictator decided that we need them...without asking voters or Congress...

How about the invasion of the UK...Do Brits have a recourse?

How about Germans and the French...What is their recourse?

What a moron...

You heathen moron, I hope you will laugh burning on the stake.

Some people think nothing is sacred and everyone should be able to laugh about everything and that they don't pay for it... -.-

I saw in Polsat today (via YouTube) a certain person from Strategy&Future (they all should be hired advisors for Polish governments and have full confidentiality protection and not be tracked by media and have consultations with Polish politicians with all parties regarding Poland's strategic future)

Main problem seem to be their leader is either a anarchist or democrat that would rather that the public (and foreign agents knew about what they share in media)

With regard to what was said, information is that drones used in Ukraine by both Ukraine and Russia have a life dependency of 2 months and are used in the millions.

It would require Poland to step up drone infrastructure and production. If Ukraine refuses to share information about drone technology cause it's see Poland as inferior then Ukraine, what other choice does Poland have then sign a deal with Russia?

I already told you a month ago - Zelensky decided that Ukraine will export military technology and will cooperate in weapons production with: Denmark, Canada, Germany, Great Britain, Norway and even Lithuania.

Poland, as you can see, is not on that list. However, Poland is welcome to contribute 0.25% of Polish GDP to Ukrainian defense sector...

businessinsider.com.pl/wiadomosci/ukraina-bedzie-produkowac-bron-za-zachodzie-lista-krajow/ksgh4xm

... they spit in Tusk's face and he says it's raining.

Ukrainian politicians said on multiple occasions that they view Poland as a competitor in many fields and their actions only confirm their words. It is our retarded politicians who refuse to listen to what they hear, and expect that Ukraine will show gratitude (lol) to Poland for everything we did for them.

...whats next? Opening the gas pipelines again?

They also said we will be best buddies and allies, then when war is over we will be back to being competitors. They see not only Poland as a rival but, better then Poland too! They do not lack ambition but, good planning, good judgement and diplomacy with Poland! I just see more reasons every day to cut off Ukraine completely. They are more of a threat then Belarus can ever become even after Lukashenko's shenanigans.

Ukraine is a profiteer like always, it was such with the Cossacks. Leaving traders unguarded then pillaging the pillagers and keeping the loot. Ungrateful opportunists. They spilled too much milk basically! Refuse to clean it up and bracingly suggest Poland ought to do it. The nerve!

@Bratwurst Boy
Basically yes, it would fuel Russian military industrial complex unfortunately. It would give Germany a cheap gas supply again (and Poland if there is a political will to it)

But, if Russians are willing to share drone technology while Ukraine wants not to share and have a rivalry attitude. Then they ask for what they accused Poland from the start! Serves them bloody right

Frankly Gruni, told that way this sounds very suspicious and quite a bit unbelievable/unlogical! And if something sounds that unreasonable it often is just wrong.

Are you sure you have all infos about that?

@Bratwurst Boy
Unless it's disinformation to keep it secret. So far the Ukrainian side has been very dismissive of PiS and see it only as U.S.A's lapdog (similar viewpoint Russia has of Poland) which would infuriate any Pole regardless of his political orientation.

I hope I am wrong but, Ukraine does not seem to think of Poland as a ally. Which is a big ungrateful lie, just as accusing Poland of being Russia's ally in the UN! Untolerable!

Chill out, Grunni. All we have to do is adopt a more Hungarian-Slovakian approach towards the Ukrainian-Russian conflict, and it will happen after 2027 elections. Until then, we have to grin and bear it.


Of course they are. Just like Germany still worshipping Hitler, Himmler and Heydrich would be a threat to us, so Ukraine openly worshipping Bandera, Shukhevych, Klyachkivsky etc. is a threat to us. That's why we have to elect to power politicians who can clearly see it, and currently only Konfederacja displays a certain dose of healthy realism towards the Ukrainian issue.

I come to doubt that Selensky is still the right man to lead Ukraine through this crisis....to treat a much needed, close ally that way would be more than just stupid, thats insane and absolutely self-destructive, even more so than his latest decision to leash his anti-corruption office!

We are partially ourselves to blame here. From the very first day of this war, Polish trains with weapons, ammo and medical aid started rolling through the border, we took in millions of their refugees, granting them social benefits, kindergeld, free healthcare on all levels and education, we provided them with Starlinks, fuel, electricity etc. We kept saying that Ukraine is fighting for Poland, that we would do everything for them, that we are servants of Ukrainians and so on. So, they got used to it and started taking it for granted.

We should have adopted the early German and then Hungarian/Slovakian stance from the very beginning. Ah, well...

Na ja....Poland (and Germany) still would prefer Ukraine to win, wouldn't we? Or at least not let come Putin so close to our borders....in that regard, we NEED to support Ukraine...bills can and will be presented afterwards!

It depends how we define "win". From the Polish point of view, a minor Russian victory would probably be a slightly better option.

A minor Russian victory might (just might) postpone the beginning of World War 3 a bit, and a weakened 20-22 million Ukraine, without their most industrialised areas and natural riches, and with limited access to the sea could be invited to join the EU. Such Ukraine could even continue worshipping their Waffen-SS heroes and murderous UPA banderists. They would still be retarded but at least would cease to be a threat to Poland.

As for Russia, they were our enemy for most of our history, they are our enemy now, and will continue to be one in the foreseeable future, so there's no change here. In other words, a minor Russian victory would mean one threat to Poland in the east, instead of two threats.

Oh Torqi, when have you become such a pessimist cynic?