Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 20

I dont' think so. Why would any sane country buy something with probably kill switches installed?

Because the US after the war had to be there or its likely Russia would have taken the whole country over.


Italy, Greece, Hungary (also close to Trump), and Turkey would be fine. All get the US military closer to the ME. Kuwait though, with over 15,000 military and civilian contractors on the ground is pretty fvcking close to anyone the US wants to attack in the region.

Your impressions from people are not quotes from people saying anything.

All the PF members who are criticizing the US wanting out of the war, are also saying they want the US out of Europe, that the US is unreliable. So, you might just get your wish. And who then will protect Europe for the next decade while Europe tries to build a military and arm itself?

As for the illegal war started by Bush, and Europe's help. The help really was nothing more than political cover. Some EU soldiers were lost, which is too bad. But, its not like NATO members sent invasion sized forces. They sent small numbers of troops, though each of their lives should have been valued higher and shouldnt have ever gone. Just as Ukrainian mens lives should be valued for more than a proxy war against Russia. Want to stop Russia? If the EU has as much balls as the tough posters here, they would have sent men three years ago.

It's not about production (Vietnam manufactures a lot of high-tech stuff but they don't own the designs and patents). When NATO doesn't exist, there will be no manufacturing of US-designed equipment, unless the EU pays a lot using their IP and designs.


They can pay more and disable the kill switch, no problem.

... and I hope they won't let the door hit them on their way out.


Bollox. Russia and China are in this together, precisely to undermine American global domination. Russia in particular is not interested in any long term alliance/deal with the West, but Putin is playing Trump like Magnus Carlsen would play a 600-rated 5-year-old.


Not really. After it became evident that the US can (and are willing too!) switch off their weapons systems remotely, the worldwide orders for their weapons will plummet.


The problem is that with agent Trumpov in power Europe has no guarantee whatsoever that Americans would honour the alliance, even if we pay 10%. So, yeah - they might as well f*ck off and we'll go our own way. It will be a new trend in world geopolitics called EGTOW - Europeans Going Their Own Way, free from all the American b*tching and moaning.

.. and also hope that countries like Poland, Hungary, Czech, and others will say "No" to EU's belt tightening in return for a 15% military spending.


Trump/US doesn't care about alliance either, as long as they can sell stuff and make money. It's about business for the US.


Have you heard about a new banking regulation that is going to allow any EU-bank to take bank deposits from private citizens? When there is a military "emergency" that's going to happen.

I'm sorry, Iron. I agree with most of your opinions; even the above quotation is basically correct, but I am afraid our conclusions are somewhat different.
True, many US leaders contributed to creating the unjust, predatory system, allowing other countries to take advantage of our misguided generosity.
It reached a point that endangers our very existence. Our greatest enemies are not outside enemies but our own politicians, who have a lust for uncontrollable spending.
Out-of-control deficits will surely bankrupt our country. So allowing for others to suck the living juces out of the US is not feasible anymore. We should be thankful
to President Trump for seeing the light.

As His Excellency Radosław Sikorski, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Poland, rightly said: we would rather eat grass than become anyone's colony again.


Good luck doing business without Europe on their side. Europe left alone will be practically forced into alliance with China and Russia, and together with Russia and China, we would be economically strong enough to displace dollar as the world's reserve currency. When that happens, the USA will become Argentina with nukes. And they will have Trumpushka, Muskovite and the rest of the cheap demagogues to thank for that.

Why would there be? Most of the tech originates within Europe or elsewhere.


You can rest assured that if any major arms purchase by a developed country had kill switches, they would have been discovered and neutralised. People are wise to that after the scandal involving French-made missiles with kill switches,

American manufacturers know that the discovery of even one kill switch would destroy any future sales of that product and call all their other products into question


Not unreasonable. Cash assets belong to society and a war or natural disaster is the time of society's greatest need.. .

LOL

By creating a worldwide system of economic violence, with dollar as the world's reserve currency and setting up the petrodollar system, it was the USA sucking the living juices out of the entire world. And you were able to do that precisely because you kept Russia and China in check with your economic and military domination over the world, including Europe. Your genius of a president wants to abandon Europe now, and go into "splendid" isolation. Good luck with that. Champagne corks are popping in Beijing and Moscow.

Europe is a tumor that burst twice and is ready to do it again.

Run, baby, run...Fvck 'em...

Catholics are fleeing the USA due to persecution on a religious basis to Russia

Germans flee from Germany to Russian villages

when do you guys think russia will swallow polqnsa. before or adter ukriane gives in to trumps demands? and usa leaves nato?

Not what I read.

A NATO without the US is just NATO without the US.

From my reading this week:

1) The United States is planning to vacate the position of Supreme Allied Commander Europe (called SACEUR). The US has had a monopoly on this role since Eisenhower. For the first time in 75 years there will be a European in charge of European security.

2) Once Europe controls the leadership of NATO in Europe, they will not give it back willingly.

3) Instead of building a new EU army (opposed by many members, but Italy and Spain first and foremost), or new regional alliances, or declaring neutrality - NATO will be Europeanized.

4) It's an already existing alliance, with a near century long history. There is no need to do the difficult work of searching out consensus, and working out guarantees. Everybody who is of particular interest is already inside the umbrella.

5) Europe is asking the US for 5-10 years to manage this transition. The hope is that the US will offer constructive aid throughout the process, but the scenario where the US leaves abruptly much earlier has also been considered.

Quote from FT article:

Asked what a European pillar within Nato meant and whether it was possible, a third senior western official replied: "We're seeing it right now: the UK and France taking the initiative [on a reassurance force for Ukraine] without the Americans."

Nato officials argue that retaining the alliance with less or no US involvement was far simpler than creating a new structure, given the difficulty of recreating or renegotiating its existing military plans for the defence of the continent, its capability targets and rules, its command structure and Article 5.

The basic defence of Europe would always require the UK and other Atlantic naval powers, the Nordics for the continent's north and Turkey for the south-eastern defence, officials said: membership that Nato already has.

"Even without the United States, Nato provides a structure for security co-operation in Europe," said Marion Messmer, senior research fellow for international security at Chatham House.

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turkey itself could take on teh ruski no?

...against whom? Muslim migrants? A dozen AK-47s would do just fine.

It's amazing how a hundred dead Muslims on a UK beach would stop a million of these scumbags from trying...

That war wouldn`t be interesting and that long.

turkey has like a two million man army.

globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.php?country1=russia&country2=turkey

Well... that's clearly the problem for a lot of the EU countries.

Yesterday, the EU was forced to effect a name change to its "ReArm Europe" plan. Under Spanish and Italian pressure it was changed to "Readiness 2030", because they thought the previous name was too militant.

Georgia Meloni's issues are clear. She has a coalition partner - Liga - which is super pro-Russian, and on which she relies to stay in power. The hard right Matteo Salvini is a staunch opponent of any aid to Ukraine or Supra-European defense structures.

Spain is more interesting. It's not a rightist government, but a leftist one under Socialist Pedro Sanchez. He made some waves two weeks ago when he said that Spain was not worried about Russian troops invading through the Pyrenees Mountains.

Then yesterday he said that it would take Spain approximately until 2030 to reach the target of 2% military spending (currently 1.19% - lowest in Europe). Further, he said he wants spending on cybersecurity and combating climate change to count towards the 2%.

At least the Spanish and the Italians don't understand what they are supposed to be defended from. Also, because Italy has never truly benefited from the NATO alliance (instead it was an aggressor twice against its core founding members), while in the case of Spain the West did everything possible to show them that they do not view Spain as an ally.

Further - in Spain there are strong regional voices, that have a fearful view of the central government in Madrid growing too powerful and too nationalistic. The same is actually true of Italy, where Southern Italians view Italian Nationalism and Italian Militarism negatively.

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Russia has launched a new initiative to combat the white plague. The fertility rate in Russia is 1.45. Much lower than the 2.1 needed to sustain the population. Peskov said that the low fertility rate is the biggest and most terrible problem in the world today. Russia has created a "Demographic Council" headed by Valentina Matvienko who Putin placed to be in charge. The council's goal is to implement the demographic so-called "Action Strategy". The strategy is being implemented in two stages. The first from 2025-2030 and the second from 2030-2035. Some of the measures of the first stage that have come into force are an increase in maternity leave, financial rewards for grandparents, financial assistance to female students aged 18-24 who will be paid more than the Russian average salary each month if they have a child, and the provision of many tax breaks for families with three or more children. Another measure is the promotion of a "family lifestyle" through schools, media and advertising. A ban on "propaganda of a childless life" has also come into force, with those found guilty of it facing fines of 400,000 rubles ($4,100) for individuals and 5 million rubles ($51,000) for legal entities.

Also, starting next school year, all Russian elementary and secondary schools will start a program and subject called "family studies" that will teach about the importance of family values, large families, marriage, and chastity. Nina Ostanina, who heads the committee of the program's authors, stated that the values ​​of family life are constantly and systematically attacked by destructive ideologies that children and young people are slowly succumbing to.

The new subject "Family Studies" will be divided into 5 topics:

1. Individual, family, and society: Why children are important for both individuals and society.

2. My relatives: The importance of relationships with siblings and grandparents and how to explore one's own family background

3. Home: Why it is important to have a stable home and how to achieve it, and the advantages and disadvantages of young families living with their parents.

4. Home atmosphere: What creates a healthy home environment and what keeps families together (according to the program's authors, the answer is children). Why a healthy lifestyle is important. (Encourages students to discuss topics such as love, loyalty, and honesty)

5. Modern family and their rights: How marriage works in Russia, what social benefits, financial assistance they are entitled to, and the rights and responsibilities of parents and children.
The course will also discuss topics such as: What does it mean to be a parent? Divorce and its consequences.

Furthermore, the authorities have tightened abortion procedures. Advertising and promoting abortion is prohibited. Many private clinics have stopped performing abortions. Abortion pills can now only be purchased with a doctor's prescription. State television has also started advertising anti-abortion content, and the Russian Orthodox Church has spoken out against abortion much more frequently and vehemently.

Demographic experts in Russia have praised all the measures but have reminded us that the main problem with demography is cultural and spiritual in nature, not economic. Changing perceptions of motherhood and fatherhood is key and will take time to change, but with significant state support, they expect positive developments, predicting fertility in Russia at 1.6 by 2030 and 1.8 by 2035.

do u think the prostitution problem is a lege part and in how eaisly accessible it is in russia part of the problem on why ppl dont want to get mrroed and have kids?

Gotta say I love this Spaniard that wants climate change spending to count towards the 2% defense target.

He's right - it's hot in Southern Europe. By mid century it will have desert like conditions. A good 70% of Spain's territory is pretty much unliveable in the summer - already.

Meanwhile British people lose their minds when the thermometer hits 26 Celsius.

Different perspectives, different priorities.

The fact that the Russians have progressed slowly now and last year and the year before last does not mean that they will progress just as slowly in one year and two years from now. When the forcibly mobilized become the majority in the Ukrainian army, it will be a general collapse.

why dont they use their best toys the russians i mean? if u want to inpress ur allies and win a war quickly why hide ur best stuff like thsoe supposed stealth f35 competitor planes the su whatever theyre called.

@Vesko Vukovic
Every European country, and the United States needs to move back to a family values oriented society. Crazy that Russia has to be the one country other than Poland that takes this family focus seriously.

@Bobko
Very interesting read. And frankly this US not leading Europe should have happened a long time ago. But impossible to do when other countries arent spending to the NATO agreed terms.


Bingo. And those kill switches on US items will never be removed so that the US cannot be accussed of allowing someone to start a war with US equipment.

You see, Bobi - that's precisely why Poland needs nukes. To keep the selfish twats like Pedro in line. He doesn't want to spend the measly 2% on defence? Wants to deduct his granma's solar panels from the spending? Doesn't worry about Russians crossing the Pyrenees? Splendid. We, therefore, make a slight change in the Polish Nuclear Weapons Doctrine (PNWD).

The brand new, freshly updated, PNWD now says that in case of Poland's fall (either if there are Russian nukes flying towards us and we have one minute to fire ours, or if we are being overrun by millions of invaders) we are redirecting 10 of our... no... make it 20; we are redirecting 20 of our 200 nukes towards Spain. That's the official doctrine, signed and confirmed by the Polish Parliament.

Now our friend Pedro has something to worry about. Now it is in our friend's Pedro's best interest to prevent the fall of Poland. Now our friend Pedro will gladly spend even 4% on defence, and won't even mention the deduction of his wife's electric car from the bill.

For those who are Polish taxpayers

Why on earth would we let out tax zlotych be spent on weapons that have kill switches ?

They don't have them, and you very well know that.


Says a divorcee

@Vesko

Thanks for the information. Very interesting indeed.


Finally something we can agree on!

x.com/i/status/1903389231189213300

anniversary of the Crocus City Mall terrorist attack by islamic terrorists sent from Ukraine

it is not clear why he is crying, while he is ready to kill innocent civilians