Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 19

US companies would be able to return to do business in Russia in the event of a ceasefire deal in the Ukraine conflict, President Donald Trump's special envoy Steve Witkoff said in an interview to CBS on Sunday.

Memo to Russia: DON"T LET THEM IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Washington has fallen for "Russia's narrative," EU foreign policy chief Kaja Kallas said on Monday. The accusation comes amid recent efforts by Washington and Moscow to begin resolving the conflict.

Mind your own damn business, you stupid bit*ch...

I love how Macron stood up against Trump's lies in public right in front of him :D:



Some comments under the video:

"@jemilambi
That public fact-check is a briliant move.

@gazpachopolice7211
The look on his face when he's corrected. Lol. And he can't fire this guy."

I'm warming up to France and Macron right now - who would've thought... 🇨🇵 👍

For those who are too lazy to watch the video:

business-standard.com/world-news/france-president-macron-us-trump-ukraine-aid-russia-war-fact-check-125022500247_1.html

'Macron immediately interrupted, reaching over to touch Trump's arm in a rare display of direct fact-checking during a high-profile diplomatic event.

"No, in fact, to be frank, we paid. We paid 60 per cent of the total effort. It was like the US: loans, guarantees, grants," Macron asserted.

Trump, caught off guard, offered a rueful smile but did not challenge Macron's statement.'

In plain and simple English...

What Macron says means shlt. France is as relevant today as it was in 1940 and 1945.


...and caused 500,000 Ukrainians to die. This makes France co-guilty of war crimes.

@Novichok, well, I do realise that to the likes of you the truth means sh1t - you displayed your attitude towards the truth and facts many, many, many times on this forum. But to normal people with some integrity the truth and facts are important.


No, the sole responsibility for those deaths lies with the invader - RuSSia. Countries have the right to defend themselves against military invasions, you psycho o_O

Still no one talking about how EU nations do not want to be a part of peace keeping missions. Why? No one talking about how the EU is all but stepping back from the Ukraine trade deal that expires in June. And yet there is time to point out how bravely Macron pointed out some talking points? Anyone thinking Trump gaf about Macron, or the EU leaders who are visitng is delusional. The man is trying to end the war, and at the same time trying to clean up the US. All the EU leaders want is more of the same that has taken place for 30 years. US spending and protection while the EU has no plan for its own protections.

Bullshlt!

It was Z who sent U army to Donbass to die. If they stayed out of Russia, they would be alive today.

The referenda in Donbass were just as valid as the one in Kosovo. They paved the way for Donbass to become Russia. Case closed.


Only by-the-book idealistic idiots are...

Countries have the right to commit suicide, too, moron...

How many weeks did it take France to fold in 1940 to save lives and Paris? Dying is fun only when it's the other guys who are doing the dying...

Now go to the kitchen and check if anything is overcooked...

@Novichok, I somehow don't recall you whining about Putin sending RuSSian army to Chechnya and RuSSian soldiers dying due to that, so you can shove your hypocrisy up your a$$.

Oh, and btw, you can only send your wife to the kitchen, not me, fortunately, so GFY :D


Because RuSSia bombs Ukraine as we speak? How about we get a peace deal first...

euronews.com/my-europe/2025/02/18/what-are-the-prospects-of-european-peacekeeping-troops-in-ukraine-leaders-remain-divided

'German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said talk of boots on the ground was "premature."

"This is highly inappropriate, to put it bluntly, and honestly: we don't even know what the outcome will be" of any peace negotiation, he added.'

I personally wouldn't mind for Polish tropps to be part of a peacekeeping force - if Ukrainians wouldn't mind.


Sorry, but I haven't been watching/reading much news lately... Any links?


Yes, because as probably everyone noticed already - I like doing the fact-checking to lying sociopaths myself and so I really enjoyed what Macron did :D


...he's lying. I don't see why he needs to lie to end this war. Could you explain?

Anything that ends it is fine.


If you are not a hypocrite you are a suicidal moron.

Your comment tells me that you never had kids or were married. Either one makes you the worst hypocrite ever...

@Novichok, how lying about Europe's financial help for Ukraine or support for Zelensky in Ukraine is going to end this war? This is bullsh1t. The intended recipients of Trump's lies are his voters who only watch Fox News and who won't do any fact-checking on his bullsh1t.


No.


...you don't like it when I point out that Trump is a filthy liar :)

@Paulina
Germany and everyone else is making excuses for peace keeping. There is nothing that says committing to it means you go in before a truce or cease fire. Scholz is a dead man walking and is about as effective as an earaser on a computer screen. Poland has already said NO to peace keeping troops along with most of the EU.

euractiv.com/section/agriculture-food/news/eastern-eu-farm-ministers-seek-tougher-trade-terms-with-ukraine/

You can think what ever you want on Trump. He is the president of the United States, and that is who he is responsible to and for. All the crying over Trump abandoning the EU and Ukraine is really just crying over the EU becoming responsibile for itself and Ukraine. The free ride of protection and funding from the US is over. The EU must now walk a tightrope to keep the US in NATO or run the risk of having to defend itself against Russia alone. Not that I think Russia wants to invade the EU. If anything the risk is the Balkans, and not the rest of the EU, and Vlad is likely dead before he has a chance to do it.

Hmm... I appreciate that it's how it looks like from the American perspective but the European perspective is slightly different. The alliance between Europe and the USA, at least in recent decades, was built not on pragmatism and common sense, as it would make much more sense for Europe to be allied to China and Russia, because our economies are more complementary and the potential for mutual profit is immense, but it was built on the understanding that we share common values with Americans: freedom, democracy, equal rights and tolerance for people of all kinds, regardless of their race, religion or sexual orientation. We defended American dominant position in the world and helped to uphold it precisely because of the belief in the common values we thought we shared.

Donald Trump has been disregarding these values in the most blatant and disrespectful way. Not to mention that he is acting like a greedy vulture towards Ukraine - for crying out loud, the man demands from Ukrainians rare earth metals deal worth $500 billion. That's more than both Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan put together paid in reparations for WW2! To say "lunacy" would be putting it rather mildly.

Such voices are raising all over Poland, and Poland has always been an overwhelmingly pro-American country. If people in Warsaw are scratching their heads in second-hand embarassment caused by Trump's words and actions, then I can only imagine what is being said about him in Berlin, Paris or Rome.

The United States can very well follow the trumpist path, alienate Europe and lose her as an ally. Europe will be all right, we've been through worst crises than that. However, Europe allied to Russia and China - which is the logical long-term consequence of trumpist policies - will mean the end of American-dominated world, the end of dollar as the world's reserve currency, and the end of American economic prosperity in any foreseeable future.

@Paulina


Very impressive indeed.

There is probably no way of changing Trump's mind right now, since he is dead set on throwing away the biggest foreign policy victory of the USA since 1993. But at least his lies should not go unchallenged when it is possible to refute them.

Really a shame that Macrom lacks the means to significantly aid Ukraine aside from words and gestures.

Meanwhile the incompetent North Nigerian Nazis are relying more and more on drunk grandparents as cannon fodder

ft.com/content/fd2f5c67-9705-495a-8a30-622dc8f55143

Still stuck in 2022-23 mode, cms?

Newsflash: it's 2025 already, and the invincible Ukrainian army supported by NATO still cannot defeat those drunk grandads. They must have some really tough дедушки in Russia. :)

@GefreiterKania


Indeed. And Russia, despite enjoying any conceivable advantage an invader might enjoy, has nevertheless failed to defeat Ukraine after all this time.

That is truly remarkeable and a testament to the will and strength of the Ukrainian people. And of course, to the Russian incompetence, without which this result would be impossible.

Well 2024 is the year that the North Nigerians advanced as far a snail would.

And in 2025 they have gone backwards

If there had been less dithering about letting Ukraine fire missiles into NN they would be in a far better place

I must say I expected more knowledge about successful invasions from a German, Taci.

It was actually the other way around: Russia enjoyed no conceivable advantage an invader might enjoy. First, there was no surprise factor - Ukrainians were receiving satellite images and reports of Russian units' movements in real time. Secondly, there was no sufficient technological advantage on the Russian side. Thirdly, there was no sufficient numerical advantage on the Russian side either. And last, but not the least, from the very beginning of the war material aid was flowing into Ukraine through her western border - fuel, ammunition, medical supplies and weapons. Any conceivable advantage my arse.

Having absolutely no regard for soldiers' lives and being willing to sacrifice an unlimited number of them is kind of an advantage... it's how russia has always fought... throwing dead bodies at the enemy....

@GefreiterKania


Yes there was. It is widely acknowledged by the Ukrainians that they were caught by surprise. Most of the leadership was in denial about the upcoming invasion, even after the Americans shared their information with them.

And even after the invasion started, Kiev did not know about the true scale and aim of the invasion. His first speech shows that Zelensky believed that the Russian incursions were limited to the Donbas.


Ukraine's most advances tank that it had in numbers waa the T64. The Russians had the T72 or T90. Their fighter planes was 1-2 generations ahead. They have literally fired more than an thousand missiles on Ukraine.


Are you kidding? Russia started the war with almost 10 times as many planes, 5 times as many tanks. Russia has had an artillery advantage of at least 4:1 throughout this war. The USA overran Iraq within weeks in similar circumstances despite having to organize this war on the other side of the world.


In a very, very very limited fashion and very much delayed. Heavy weaponry only arrived in Kiev after the battle of Kiev was over. Western air defence systems only arrived after summer 2022 and only in small doses. Tanks only arrived after Kherson was liberated. Western planes (and again only in small numbers) started well after 2 years.

Compared to other military aid in history, e.g. Soviet support for North Korea and Vietnam, that was really not outstanding.

And that is not even taking Soviet stockpiles in Russia and the deliveries of China, Iran and NK into account.

So to summarize. Russia had the moment of surprise. It had cultivated an extensive network of spies and collaborateurs to aid its' conquest. It fought in its' neighbourhood, with next to no geographical barriers in its' way. It had a vast technological and numerical advantage. It has more people to throw away in meat assaults. It can strike at Ukraine with missiles and drones with impunity.

Heck, one year ago they could assemble near the border at Kharkiv AND THE UKRAINIANS WERE NOT ALLOWED TO SHOOT AT THEM! Even now the Ukrainians can not hit most of the Russian hinterland.

russia had built up troops before and then withdrawn them... most people thought that that's what was going on. I hadn't realized how far down the drain russia had gone either... it was a monumentally stupid thing to do and I'm still kind of in awe of russian inability to rethink the invasion....it's not like russia has to worry about public opinion.... there have been innumerable times that russia could withdraw and declare victory (and kill any public figure that disagreed) but it's still there stupiding away...


the word 'flow' is doing a lot of work, considering how little of promised aid has ever actually materialized

@mafketis


True. Putin could have taken the concessions made by Biden, Macron and Scholz before the 24.02.22 and achieved a huge diplomatic victory without any cost to Russia. But that was not enough for him.

The planes were better but their actions were limited by Ukrainian anti-aircraft defense using western systems and the Russian tanks were definitely not much better than Ukrainian ones, as we could very well observe during the initial phase of the conflict. As for numerical advantage, the initial Russian invading force was actually smaller than the Ukrainian army, which from the very beginning doomed the invasion to failure. You need to have more soldiers than the defender to successfully invade a country - Russia didn't have this advantage.


Wrong again. Kherson was liberated in November 2022, Poland send T-72s (over 200 of them) in April 2022 already.


That's what annoys me--people downplaying the amount of aid that Ukraine received.

So, let's see what Poland alone gave...

- 310 T-72 and PT-91 tanks, serviced, modernized (engines and optics) and prepared to fight (Ukrainians themselves were shocked and said that the tanks looked like they were brand new, out of factory, and said they were like Mercedes compared to Ladas in comparison to their own machines);
- 14 Mig-29 fighter planes
- 11 Mi-24 assault helicopters
- 14 Leopard 2A4 tanks
- 400 BMP-1 AFVs
- 50 Rosomak AFVs with Hitfist-30 turret
- 54 self-propelled Krab howitzers

... plus older 2S1 Goździk self-propelled howitzers, tons of other artillery with trains full of ammunition (BM-21 Grad, Newa-M, Osa, Wega, 2B9M Wasilok, LM-60, ZSU-23-4 Szyłka), anti-tank and anti-aircraft launchers (including Pioruns), rifle ammunition, fuel, explosives, even military rations - trainloads upon trainloads of stuff that Ukrainians were able to use right away, too many things to even mention and the official list is vastly incomplete. A lot of this stuff is still classified but very careful estimates say that Poland passed about 5% of her GDP to support Ukraine.

And that's Poland alone!

If anyone claims that Ukraine would be able to defend herself without aid against those "incompetent, drunk Russian grandfathers", then he's a raging idiot.

True... russia is the most warlike country on Earth (and it's not even close) it accumulated extraordinarily vast supplies of all manner of weapons...

Exactly. Not to be underestimated, downplayed or ridiculed. Also, apart from being warlike Russians are stubborn, long-suffering and ready to sacrifice their lives. In short, a formidable enemy. That's why Cms with his "incompetent drunks with their walking sticks, reading glasses and rocking chairs" is so annoying.

@GefreiterKania


Those only started to arrive in late 2022. And even now they are not in sufficient number in Ukraine. What prevented the Russians from gaining air superiority was the ingenuity and planning of the Ukrainians who moved their planes and anti aircraft systems before the Russians could destroy them after 24.02.22.


You need to have more soldiers in a specific area and even that can be circumvented if you have air superiority and more armored vehicles and tanks. Aka what happened in Iraq. Russia threw away a lot of its' ressources in the first few weeks of the war due to poor planning and leadership, but that was not inevitable. The failed push at Kiev and then later the huge losses in Kharkiv are the reason why the war is still ongoing.


200 old tanks. Russia lost more than twice that amount within the first two weeks of the war. Every bit helped, but the scales were throughly tipped in Russia's favour.

No matter how you look at it, the Russians had a crushing advantage in equipment. Hence none of the military experts believing that Ukraine stood a chance.

Just look at the number of confirmed Russian losses. More than 3k destroyed Russian tanks up until now.... .


That would be 40bn. Half as much as thr US provided. The best estimates are that Poland provided Ukraine with aid worth between 3-4bn Euro, and that seems based on a high valuation of the old Soviet equipment.


Nobody claimed that. Russia invaded a country with 1/4 of its population while spending ten times as much on the military budget pre-invasion and after conducting a several year long campaign to sabotage Ukraine's defence industry. Of course the Ukrainians are not going to defeat them alone while 1/5 of their country is occupied.

The truly remarkeable thing is that the Russians have failed to win a war they should have won within weeks. And how the Ukrainians have managed to use the limited aid from the West so effectively that it has negated most of Russia's advantages. The Russians have been fighting so poorly that they needed the NK to bail them out!

The Russian military performed very poorly overall. The Ukrainians have survived until now by determination and being one step ahead of them. And with the aid of superior, but small in numbers Western tech.

In Iraq the American technological advantage was immense (probably even bigger than Wehrmacht's advantage over Wojsko Polskie in 1939). In Ukraine the military technology was similar (with only very slight advantage on the Russian side).


Old but modernized, in good technical condition, with plenty of ammo provided by Poland too and ready to fight right away without any additional training (unlike in case of western tanks). Also, provided at a time when most countries weren't ready to send any heavy equipment.


You are counting equipment only. From the very beginning of war Polish trains loaded with ammo, medical equipment and fuel were rolling into Ukraine, when Germany were still considering whether to send 4000 or 5000 helmets. Poland accepted millions of refugees, provided them with medical care and social benefit money. We provided about 20000 starlink units for Ukraine, for which we continue and will continue to pay, we provided electricity for Ukraine when their electric grid was dealing with extensive damage etc. etc.; in general, I would go as far as to say that without the immediate Polish help, when the rest of the world was still figuring out what to do, the Ukraine might have fallen in the first months of the war.

president.pl/news/polish-aid-for-ukraine,93908


Right. The USA should have won the Vietnam war, Russia should have won in Afghanistan, Soviet Union should have rolled over Poland in 1920 and so on and so forth. Well, the stronger side not always wins, and Russia in 2022 wasn't a world superpower anymore.

I am not disparaging Ukrainian war effort. They have fought bravely indeed but without the enormous aid that they received (military and economic) the war might very well have ended in a couple, if not weeks then probably months.

Three facts

They are incompetent - I challenge you to find a more poorly planned and badly executed operation as their assault on Kiev

They are drunk - there are high levels of alcoholism, narcotic use and sexual abuse of conscripts . All well documented

They are old - I already posted the link

Why do you have a problem GK with simple truth about the North Nigerian Nazis ?

I have a problem with underestimating the enemy which may one day threaten Poland. If we have to struggle as hard as Ukraine one day, I wouldn't like to hear that we fight against "incompetent drunk pensioners" because that would be belittling our war effort.

I have a problem with constantly insulting people who are our blood brethren and who, whether we like it or not, saved us from extermination and enslavement by actual Nazis. We may currently be in a conflict of interests geopolitically but they are still our own - children of Svetovid and Christ.

I have a problem also with our complex of superiority towards Russians. An objective look at our nations' achievements in history might provoke one to a slightly larger measure of humility, Cms. Only slightly.

*sighs*