Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 18

Why? Care to explain the purpose of rounding up people and marching them through a death camp?

@Barney, did you overlook this post of mine?:

https://polishforums.com/news/poland-aid-ukraine-russia-invades-part-88756/22/#msg2012033


As I wrote in that earlier comment of mine - I would disagree with such "method", but in general educating foreigners about such stuff isn't a bad idea. And if you were so worried about "singling out one group" then it could apply to anyone from outside of Europe who wants to settle in Poland/Germany/Europe, including Americans, who are so famous for their vast knowledge and deep understanding of the world outside of the US (sarcasm) lol 🙄

I read that post noting a subtle shift from your previous position where you appeared to have a sneaking regard for BB's suggestion.

I replied to BB with "punishment" as he didnt attempt to introduce any caveats into his suggestion.

It's an intensely personal and traumatic experience. I have been to one and wish I hadnn't. Nobody should be "forced" (as you said) to go to such a place, especially since there is no reason.


He clearly wasn't. He was targeting one group of people who have no reason to be targeted.


Given that a significant proportioning them may vote for a fascist party in the forthcoming election, they clearly are.

@Bratwurst Boy


The connection for me is that Germans who vote for the AfD have similar views on the Holocaust to those of migrants who agitate against jews/ Israel nowadays: That it a) it never happened, b) was not a big deal, or c) has been used by jews/Israel to further their agenda and should thus be ignored

@jon357


Ahem.

Yazidi genocide

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidi_genocide

That was less than 10 years ago. And from what I have been reading, there are still Yazidi women being held as slaves.

Yazidi woman rescued from Gaza after decade in captivity

google.com/amp/s/bbc.com/news/articles/cpw5v077nyjo.amp

I'd hate to think you were trying to compare the isolated act of a rural terrorist group with the Holocaust.

@jon357, why? Holocaust was also an act orchestrated and perpetrated by mainly one country/government. And genocide is genocide.


"Sneaking regard"? lol Earlier I wrote that I wouldn't call BB's method "vile", but, obviously, too radical. Maybe I didn't make it clear enough. I don't have time to make very thoughtful posts right now, sorry.

Having said that - in Poland you can get fined or go to prison for up to 3 years for Holocaust denial. "Getting marched" through Auschwitz-Birkenau Museum wouldn't be so bad in comparison, imho lol 🙄


I absolutely and strongly disagree. There are people who I wouldn't mind seeing being forced to visit such places - neo-Nazis and any Holocaust deniers. Especially those who spread such lies publicly.

Btw, in Poland kids are taken by schools to visit Auschwitz-Birkenau. If they can take it, then so can adult people, give me a break... 🙄


There's a reason for this group to be "targeted" with education about the Holocaust.

@jon357


1. You claimed that Arabs have not commited genocide in their modern history which I corrected. I did not mention the Holocaust.

2. The IS ruled over large parts of Iraq/Syria and large cities like Mossul with a surprising degree of organization. They were acting more like a state than a mere group.

There is no need to apologise, I dont mind people disagreeing with me. We all rattle out responses, after all its not an exam :)


I agree, I visited Buchenwald, though not an extermination camp it did have crematoria. The whole experience was disturbing taking a long time to process.

-Sophistry.

Arabs are usually more likely to be the victims of genocide.


Short lived chaos.

Not industrialised murder by a legal government with the active and passive support of that country's population.

What are you talking about?


8 years. Plenty enough time to kill, torture, enslave and rape people.

Auschwitz-Birkenau operated for 5 years.


ISIS wouldn't be able to take over swaths of two countries without significant support of the local population, who was also taking and buying and selling Yazidi girls and women as slaves. ISIS was as evil as Nazis, minus the industrial scale.

As I wrote - genocide is genocide.

*5 years *sigh* Sorry, I was in a hurry ;/

@jon357


Yet a genocide as acknowledged by the British government.

The Yazidi genocide in 2014

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/uk-acknowledges-yazidi-genocide-by-daesh-islamic-state/

Nothing compares to the Holocaust. But it is factual incorrect to claim that Arabs have not commited genocide in their modern history.

Why not?

Let's look at Algerians.....

x.com/Marc_Vanguard_i/status/1876749305891192896

Given that information what's your preference for migration from Algeria to the city where you live?

a) more b) less c) none d) same as present levels

Stop it with your sophistry.

Relating the chaotic killing of 5,000 men by a terrorist group with the German national killing 6,000,000 people, many of them women and children is in appallingly bad taste when coming from a German.

Both crimes. Only one will echo down history and is a permanent stain, abhorrent to all civilised people.

As your former leader said, "who remembers the Armenians?"

Anyway, you're going off on a tangent, since the discussion seems to be about the neo-nazi AfD and was provoked by a particularly vile comment about "forcing" refugees to visit German Death Camps.

And the thread¡s about the Ukraine war, unconnected to the sins of r*SSia's former major oil customer.

Cos its not exactly the best way to form an opinion on someone, I'd rather form my own opinion.


My policy on migration is simple, an adjudication process needs to be implemented for those seeking asylum or moving for economic reasons whether they arrive by unofficial channels or not.

Stop it, jon357. Your squirming and downplaying the Yazidi genocide is in bad taste.
Tacitus even wrote that "Nothing compares to the Holocaust", but you're still at it.

You claimed that Arabs didn't commit genocide in the modern area which isn't true and Tacitus corrected you. That's all. Kończ waść i wstydu sobie oszczędź. 🤨

Unpopulated deserts, and they took it by force.


Reality. Did you imagine that nobody has ever committed genocide against Arab populations?


Like the U.K., however the sheer scale makes it hard and expensive to do.

People talk about a migration crisis. It isn't a crisis. Crises are temporary. This is the way things will be for a century or more; it has barely begun..

We're less than a decade away from the first water war, climate change is making swathes of the world unliveable in, and when infant mortality was reduced in the 70s and 80s in parts of the developing world, nobody seemed to wonder about what people would do for a living, how they'd feed themselves and whether or not a welfare state and pensions might reduce the habit of having Edwardian-style 10 kid families.


Grow up, Paulina.

The Arabs are not genocidal. Germans have the gold medal, magna cúm laude and with bars, for that

As I wrote: Kończ waść i wstydu sobie oszczędź:

"At its height, the Islamic State - also known as ISIS, ISIL, or Daesh - held about a third of Syria and 40 percent of Iraq."

That included Mosul, Iraq's second largest city (population of 1 800 000 people) and the northern Syrian city of Raqqa, its nominal capital.


Elaborate on this "reality" then - how many times Arabs were subjected to genocide in the modern era?


It happens to your country if you allow it. You can choose to either facilitate it or not.


Then Germans aren't either. And noone claimed that Arabs are genocidal. You are clearly arguing with stuff you make up yourself. It looks like you have some growing up to do, because you can't even admit that you were wrong about something. 🤨

@Paulina

Thanks Paulina, I was initially unsure if what I 've written could have been misunderstood, but it seems that problem is on Jon's side.

@Tacitus, it's not your fault, don't worry... Discussing with jon357 often looks like this, unfortunately :( I've been through this more than once...

Mile upon mile of desert, with one almost undefended city taken by force.

Stop trying to argue about things you've only googled about.


Calm down, and don't be so snarky. And read a history book. There's a glaring example; you can find it as easily as anyone else. Don't try to distract.


It is literally happening in places where governments do not want it.


History shows very clearly otherwise.

Unless someone else gassed 6 million people within living memory.j

Now, as you were told, calm down.

It's 28 January, nearly pay day. Time to be cheerful.

And a pony?

What do you do with them while the adjudication process is going on?

What do you do with them if they commit a felony or 17?

What do you do when the system clogs up because there are so many?

These are questions with no answer.

Some of the finest minds in public p9licy making have addressed this in different countries and always without success.

It is nonsense, any such law should exist.
--

What do you mean? Discussing with jon is interesting because he offers a unique (not always) point of view and even his bias and slogans are his own and thought over.
I can disagree with him more often than not but at least I know I'm dealing with a thinking adult, not with a simpleton who puts up airs or an immature big baby. The worst are self-righteous half-wits.

It's you who's arguing with stuff you make up yourself and you are the one writing things that are untrue, so maybe you should do some googling yourself?


No, you made that claim, so now back it up.


Not to the same extent as in countries that allowed it.


That happened one time in their history. You're being the one who's prejudiced/xenophobic now. 🤨

Calm down.


Isn't that enough for you?

It is simple to solve:
- No illegals whatsoever - automatic deportations.
- Politicians and officials are paid to do their job - should be evaluated by the results. If they don't deliver they need to return all the money they got from taxpayers. If their office time is particularly harmful, they should be fined with big fines.

then the finest minds of public policy making are freakin' idiots.....

No country in Europe wants open borders with the world but unless you can articulate who you want to keep out, how you're going to do it and what you're going to do if they get in anyway..... you've got objectively open borders.

Any migrant that is found guilty of a felony (or local equivalent) should be deported ASAP. If the home country doesn't want them then shut off the foreign aid spigot until they see reason.

Arrive with no passport (turned back at border).

They'd probably be the first to admit it. Albeit privately.


This is what governments of all,political shades and across the world (migration is not only to the richest countries) have been long trying to do.


This I think is one of Yvette Cooper's proposals.


Do you think that might have any effect on recruitment and retention?