Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 16

Putin has been itchy to use them for a long time.
We may as well get it over with withe the second one down his chimney.

"The America of my time line is a laboratory example of what can happen to democracies, what has eventually happened to all perfect democracies throughout all histories. A perfect democracy, a 'warm body' democracy in which every adult may vote and all votes count equally, has no internal feedback for self-correction. It depends solely on the wisdom and self-restraint of citizens... which is opposed by the folly and lack of self-restraint of other citizens. What is supposed to happen in a democracy is that each sovereign citizen will always vote in the public interest for the safety and welfare of all. But what does happen is that he votes his own self-interest as he sees it... which for the majority translates as 'Bread and Circuses.'"

"'Bread and Circuses' is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure. Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once a state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader-the barbarians enter Rome."

Robert Anson Heinlein, (July 7, 1907 - May 8, 1988)

it was up to Franco to support capitalism and to allow capitalists and those who favoured capitalism to retain their positions

And one more Heinlein quote...

"A managed democracy is a wonderful thing... for the managers... and its greatest strength is a 'free press' when 'free' is defined as 'responsible' and the managers define what is 'irresponsible'."

Remember that Fascism is more accurately corporatism; ruke by the rich.


And how is its alternative good for the ordinary people?

Whart is democracy?
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demos - the common people of the Hellenic state.
populus - people in Latin.
It's basically the same.
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Respublica - A common affairs,
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In all your take is a good one.
I dislike this mindless talk about democracy this or that, it doesn't tell you a thing.
By the way Mexico is ruled by its brand of commies on top of everything else.

Talking about democracy is pointless. Let's talk about civic duties, self-organizations of society, the majority of the public, and cooperation for the common interest.
Freedoms and unalienable rights that can't be taken away at a whim. Let's talk about the rules of the law, about authorities answerable to its citizens.
It is not something that Russia has, ever had, or will have, you are wise with the wisdom of a horde gathered around one chief.

all the nukes should blow where they are - problem solved.

i think nuclear doesnt kill Christians.

PolAm you seem obsessed by the fact that Putler has nukes. Does that give him carte blanche to do whatever he feels ?

If he invaded Krakow shouod we just let him get on with it because he has nukes ?

Bit of sports news - the North Nigeria football team, banned from Europe, is enjoying a lot of on field success - beating mighty Brunei 11-0, and this after impressive hammerings of Vietnam, Belarus and 10 man Serbia. next up tonight it's a home game with Syria.

And I also see that the bid for fair sports continues and another NN athlete has been stripped of her 2012 medal for cheating.

theguardian.com/sport/2024/nov/19/fifth-athlete-stripped-olympic-medal-dirtiest-races-athletics-history-tatyana-tomashova-london-2012-1500m

I am all for it...An easy way to detect imbeciles.

BTW, I had to switch to "imbecile" from "moron" because moron is too mild when referring to maf and the other azhole.

Memo to PF imbeciles: Keep in mind that the people you meet every day are not as suicidal as you.

Memo to President Putin: If you decide to nuke something, send one to Warsaw or London. The density of Russia-hating morons per square kilo is the world's highest. We, Americans, like Russia and would like to be friends again.


Nukes have the ability to turn foe into friend. See H and N.

@cms neuf
I am obsessed with watching all the absolutely stupid cheerleading of continuing this war in Ukraine that goes on here. I am completely baffled by how so many who claim Vlad will attack again in the future wont consider that he could just say fvck the future and turn a city into glass. You know what the US response to that would be? ZERO The UK response? ZERO Balkans? ZERO Because once that genie is out of the bottle you either go all in, or you step back and say its not worth it. And Biden along with his merry band of retards keeps pushing us closer to it happening. And thats the thing. Putin is not going to invade Poland or Krakow. We all kow this.

If you have read both, then you know that the Greeks had a cyclical view on the shifts between various forms of government.

When discussing democracy specifically, Aristotle identified the following factors as leading to their eventual replacement by tyranny or oligarchy:

1) Excessive equality - he recognized that equality was an overall desirable thing, but also understood the dangerous drawbacks of telling everybody that they are equal. When "equality" began to be applied to leadership and expertise, things would begin to fall apart.

2) Playground for demagogues - as Novichok pointed out, assh0les that promise people what they want to hear are often rewarded.

3) The rich and poor begin eating each other - with nobody acting as neutral arbiter between the haves and have nots, they rapidly begin to consume each other. One feels threatened by the idea of income redistribution, and the other feels butthurt through apparent lack of equity.

4) Gradual erosion of the rule of law - charismatic leaders with soaring personal ambition often override the rule of law, through promotion of nepotism and favoritism - at the expense of established institutions.

Once all these factors have a full chance to play out, the usual next step is either tyranny or oligarchy, according to Aristotle.

Can any of you recognize these symptoms in the modern United States?

People said the same about Ukraine as well. He did.
Granted Poland is trickier target but I wouldn't rule it out.

Poland will not be attacked, because it is a member of NATO.

Not because Poland is in any way a "trickier" target than Ukraine - which probably has the strongest army in Europe at the moment.

The Ukrainian army is many times bigger than the Polish army. In fact, the Ukrainian army has more army divisions, than Germany, France, the UK, and Italy combined.

This is why Zelensky is now proposing to the incoming Trump administration, that Ukrainian soldiers could replace American soldiers in Europe.

Inside NATO, only Turkey and the United States have more capable militaries than Ukraine.

ive seen entire communities carrying weapons in weaps, just search armed Militias Ooland arms, they learning war for the past 10 years(ON youtube)
I'd say seeing those children with guns, russians have 0 chance! :)

NATO is part of it, better economic situation is another. Big diaspora all over the world that could put more pressure on their leader. Russia couldn't realistically pretend we are just Russians in disguise.
None of that however is definite and I wouldn't bet a penny on Putin and Russia actually being sensible or decent.

This is important. Ukraine has only one major diaspora group that has been helping it - the Canadian one.


Absolutely. Another great point.


I think this is actually more a weakness. People get used to improvements, much faster than they get used to hardships.

Part of the explanation for why Ukraine is fighting like a cornered dog, that puzzles many Germans and French that would have given up a long time ago, is that Ukrainians... like Russians... are a people used to eating sh*t. Life was never easy to begin with.

Post of the year.

Thanks! I never meant to turn this into a referendum on democracy, instead of a discussion of the present war between my country and Ukraine.

What makes me do this, is people like Maf and Neuf constantly framing the conversation in the context of a civilizational conflict.

As if we Russians are from Mars, and only you are from Earth.

I don't think we are crazy, and I think there is space to understand us.

@PolAmKrakow
russia's gonna do what russia's gonna do, trying to think that what other countries do makes much of a difference is wrong....

according to Peter Zeihan (who might well know) putain was contacted early through back channels and told that if he uses a nuke the response would be against the army but against him personally (US intelligence knows where he is at all times).


The difference is that Ukrainians lost their taste for it while russians still hungrily gobble it down and ask for more... it's the difference between a healthy culture and a sick culture.

I am glad you did.

As a reminder of the obvious...Evil thrives best when people lose control over the swamp.

That is why a true democracy is the cure - a system where voters can overrule the ruling class via a legally-binding referendum.

No, voting every four years in not a democracy. The swamp needs to legitimize itself.

Without a contract, voting is a theatre for the gullible. The actors we vote for are not legally obligated to vote later as they promised, thus, perverting the meaning of "representatives".


Good point. Hence the question...Why is Z still alive?

Try to run an army as a democracy and tell us how it went. Or a family...

Your long screed on Matura level Greek philosophy seemed to refer to America. Why not talk about the crappy system in North Nigeria

And if you don't think this is a civilizational issue could you tell us what parts of 21st century North Nigerian civilization are admirable and should be copied by other nations ? Apart from 24 hour sushi bars of course.

That's if you are not out celebrating the Football Union of North Nigeria's 4-0 win against Syria

Any system that can accumulate debt it cannot ever pay is sick. In this respect, the US is sick. The patients just don't know it yet...

Fortunately, deep sh*t we are all in will soon hit the fan. It would come to culmination of sh*t and then due to fan effect sh*t will disperse like a rain. It would be stinking but won't be that deep. See?

Let us rejoice.

BS.Putin has not got the balls nor the power to threaten NATO.There is currently, no risk at all of WW3, that is just scaremongering propaganda on a Russian scale!


Because they wanted to see the Russian response to the first American missiles fired at Russia.Expect Ukraine to gain permission to use Storm Shadow in days.....


Great point, but I think it was Russia and not China that accused the USA of "Pouring fuel on the fire".

but hospitals and mental health are too military, I wouldnt say ukrain is militaized, it's ai match hahaha

hi i came back to this forum, so has Ukraine won or wat? ahaha trust me the situ is fkd up
permision to fire the long range ATACMS lolzo the new wunderwaffe good luck my ukranian brothers.
last gaso gasp b4 trump gets in

i'm crying for my Ukrainian brothers and sisters because I know how hard their winter will be.