Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 15

I see: Estonian nationalism: good; German or British nationalism: bad; what about Scottish nationalism? and erm.. Polish nationalism?

Yes, of course, since they're a thriving democracy and a bulwark against r*SSia.


Do try harder. Don't you think that Estonia is in a uniquely sensitive position? One where hostile implants are used to undermine their very existence as a country.

so, you think Jose Aznar on whom there was a bombing attempt in 1995 was a fascist scum

21 September 2008: A car bomb blamed on Eta explodes near a military academy in the northern town of Santona, killing an army officer and injuring several other people. It comes just hours after two separate bomb attacks in the Basque region injure 11 people.

well - it looks like Falanga ran Spanish military right into early 21st century - who would've thank - was it behind the scenes?

Did you think that Aznar is the only key figure in Spain or that freedom fighters in a given place all have the same opinion and never lash out? Oh dear.

Despite all your rather obtuse attempts at deflection and distraction you haven't yet said why you hate Estonia and democracy yet love r*SSia and repression.

last I checked Estonia is in NATO - is NATO in danger, too? - or maybe Estonia is in a unique position where it belongs to NATO and NATO actually guarantees nothing to them?

Do you check often, or are you trying particularly low-level PiS-style rhetoric?


Damn right it is.


That makes no sense. Like listening to a r*SSian or a nutter from Himavanti.

I don't hate Estonia - if there was a sizeable Scottish minority in Estonia I would support their demands for education in Scottish Gealic (I guess)

Probably they'd self-organise rather and agitate, and I suspect there would be fewer spies and saboteurs among them.

I think you'll probably agree that dealing with r*SSia (especially if you're a neighbouring country who has been brutalised by them) is unlike dealing with anywhere else in Europe, not that most of their 'federation' is European.

can you elaborate? the very existence of which NATO countries is on the line? I guess it must be Iceland's

NATO.

I'm sure you've been following the news lately. Nuclear threats, border issues, attempts at political destabilisation, y'know.

You should have told this to Germans when they started building the Nord Stream, and then again with Nord Stream 2 - I don't remember you taking this stance when Nord Stream was discussed here back in the days

btw Germans are somehow deeply upset by the destruction of most of these gas pipelines (or at least they seem to take offence that allegedly it was the Ukrainians who did it) - is it because they now hate Russia so much and think dealing with it is unlike any other country - I can cue you in a bit: Germans took deep offence with the alleged democracy deterioration in Poland under PiS but somehow had no problems with making business with Putin who "pacified" Chechnya, Georgia, took over Crimea from Ukraine and ordered to kill Litvinenko or Politkovskaya


this sounds serious - what kinds of and where it begs to ask

Me? Am I a politician?

I just strongly criticised it on here, as did many of us.


Follow current affairs and all will be clear to you.

Since there's a new russo-Ukraine war thread, I'll post this again...

There's a "damaged" russian ship loaded up with ammonium nitrate (more or less 7 times than exploded in Beirut a few years ago) floating around Kent and either broken down or headed for the English channel....

Is this just the usual russian dangerous incompetence and disregard for human life or is it a type of hybrid warfare?

x.com/thetimes/status/1839206092519231967

What's next?

Care to post anything on the subject of how Zelensky's current visit to the United States will likely go down as one of the most disastrous visits to NYC/DC by a foreign head of state?

Up there with Netanyahu addressing Congress, and singing the praises for Trump - to the disgust of Democrats. But probably, even a little worse than that.

Trump had already stated that:

1) Ukraine is destroyed and its population dead

2) Russia cannot be beat in a war

3) Zelensky is the most successful salesman in history, since after every visit he leaves with $100B

4) Accused Zelensky of spreading "nasty aspersions at your favorite president"

5) Said any deal Ukraine could have done, would have been far better than the situation they find themselves in now

In other news:

1) Mike Johnson has issued an ultimatum to Zelensky to fire the Ukrainian Ambassador to the United States.

2) Number one Ukraine fan - Lindsey Graham - has said Ukraine committed a huge unforced error

3) John Cornyn calls Zelensky's actions a fatal miscalculation.

Anything on this topic?

I understand these threats as a sound made by a cornered animal - why? because Russian military or otherwise infrastracture proves to be vulnerable to Ukrainian attacks even now and if Ukraine receives and is given a green light to use longer range weapons Russia is in real trouble - do you want to push the cornered animal even further? maybe do it at your own risk (even the US military was very cautious about giving Ukraine long range missiles a couple of months back, AFAIR)

that may sound to you or some people here contradictory to what I said above, but I still believe Ukrainian (or rather Zelensky's) end goals of the war (ie regaining the pre-war Ukrainian territory and being free to join NATO and/or the EU) are highly unrealistic and probably even dangerous to the civilization on the planet - Putin already said he is ready to stop the war on a couple of conditions (that include territorial concessions and post-war neutrality of Ukraine) - Putin needs (well he thinks he needs) to save his face which means he needs to show his people Russia is victorious which he can show by protecting Russian speaking population of Ukraine by taking the territories where they live - letting Ukraine join NATO after the conflict would also be seen by Russians (or at least the Russian ruling elites and especially Putin think would be seen) as a serious blow that greatly cripples the victorious Russia narrative - what I think Ukraine can gain minor (or actually not so minor) concessions from Putin's original peace offer like keeping Cherson and the west bank of Dnieper in the area and maybe even keeping the area where Zaporizhia nuclear plant is located (which is on the east side of Dnieper)

....we tried still this whole "Wandel durch Handel" thing....not our proudest moment in history! 😕 Even if the economy was alot happier than now.....

Three miles off U.K. territorial water and waiting for permission to enter the Channel which I doubt they will get.

Given that it's already sailed from the Baltic (or been towed, since it's broken) it begs the question why they didn't tow it back to its home port in r*SSia for repairs rather than attempt to take it through the busiest shipping lane in the world.

Usual r*SSian twattery. It won't work though. They think that everyone's as cúntish as themselves, without realising that two major navies plus Netherlands and Belgium have more contingency plans for problems near the mouth of the Channel than r*SSia has contingency plans for anything at all.


Yes, the truth. President Zelenskyy has met with President Biden, will meet with future President Harris and the UN address was superb. Putler's sabre rattling didn't work. What trumpet and his gang of morons say is irrelevant since they're not in office.

Stop being a spineless man!

It was great - it was glorious.

Russia earned money to modernize, and Germany received energy that allowed it to become a top world exporter.

Now, we are both in the sh*t.

Conclusion? We need to rapidly re-establish our links.

If you want to keep calling all the shots in Europe, and put France and Italy back in their place - Russia is the only game in town. We can help you stay on top.


Probably not a good idea to alienate half the electorate of your main ally and donor.

ok so again: Estonian nationalism: good (because Estonia is in a unique position because it borders Russia and was getting threats from Russian media figures) - guess what? Poland also borders Russia and regularly receives threats from Russian media figures - is Polish nationalism good, too, then?

well, let's look - America is a bulwark of democracy against Russia - and is a thriving democracy (maybe it isn't according to you, though, I'm curious now) - is American nationalism OK, then?

Hmm.. asking questions like that will give you the only possible answer - yes and no.
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Since I seem to answer all of your questions - will you answer mine - why do you think that acts of the Estonian state have to do anything with nationalism?
It is a pragmatic statecraft behind their decisions.

Mmm, back for more. I'm enjoying this.


Yes, not that 'nationalism' is an appropriate word since as you know, it's tainted.


It's served Poland well over the past century or so. Kept the nation alive, even.


What does that even mean?

It's as if you don't quite grasp that the size, geography, political situation and military threats vary from country to country.

And it's best sticking to examples that are credible, unlike earlier when you thought that Scots Gaelic was the language of Scotland (clue: it was only ever spoken, even historically, by a small number of people. Scots, Norn and Cumbric were all bigger languages).

....and who's fault is that???


...not with pipelines! I doubt we could build them quick enough before the existing one gets destroyed again and again....totally accidentally of course...to many disagreeing neighbours between us.

I'msonotspineless!!!

To promise not to use nukes is stupid. Nukes are there to be used, not to rust or dangle.

Putin is 100% right. Russia can drop a small Nagasaki-size nuke first as a warning. I am absolutely sure that this would not unleash US ICBMs but the message from Russia would be simple:

Don't fvck with us. Ukraiine will be neutral. Period.

So, Russia-hating azholes, just imagine you are a US president. Would you launch an all-out nuclear attack on Russia? Is so, why?

Recall that Ukraine was once part of the USSR and we managed just fine.

Yes - let's call it by its proper name - Estonia's rampant xenophobia.

Similarly to Gumishu - I get it now.

Big country nationalism = dangerous/toxic

Small country nationalism = cute/endearing

Whether or not nationalism is Kosher, is judged by the capability of the other side to annihilate your way of life.

If they are impotent micro states, posing no threat whatsoever - even the worst Apartheid methods are acceptable... after all - they are merely rebuilding their national identity following decades of suppression.


Yes, unfortunately recent history shows that America will provide diplomatic cover for such miscreants. Why? Because it benefits American oil and gas companies.

it was a hyperbole (or a licentia poetica if you wish) - I am very aware that Scottish Gaelic is a dying minority language in Scotland and I have read things about the history of Scotland (though I never maintained that I'm an expert on it)

The electorate have other priorities, despite insidious r*SSian propaganda operations, and the decisions are made by the White House and their advisors.

And the response to the Presidential speech has been superb. Plenty of high level meetings round about now.

Na ja....it makes sense!

Big country nationalism = big army = war = frightened neighbours

Small country nationalism = small army = nobody really cares

their military and feed its oligarchy. Phew!
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And Buffon with their glorified economy and alleged German efficiency - phew lazy bums and conmen depending on cheap energy and cheap tricks to destroy competition on the EU level.
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It was yuck and cringy like two old men having sex in an old stinky toilet. I guess they enjoyed it while it lasted. Now you both have a foul aftertaste in your mouth.

heh your metaphores are hillarious Ironside (and quite on point as well)

It was true love - sorry if you felt left out...

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