Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 10

Only to some extent. Please tell me who do you think controls Poland. The EU? Ask in Berlin and Brussels how "controllable" is Poland :) The USA? The same thing - they are our important ally but we are hardly "controlled" by them.


Why would we even want that? Having nuclear weapons would allow us to tell everyone to f*ck off and become independent from any external influence. Isn't that what Russians want - neutral Poland as a buffer between NATO and Russia? Well, in such case you should give us the nukes yourselves. Otherwise we are stuck with NATO.


Yeah, the problem with that option is that when a country is in no military alliance and doesn't have nukes, then some people may get strange ideas about demilitarising and denazifying it. ;)

The problem that Poland is on hook, and have no real way to get completely free and sovereign again. ;)

Optionally - Poland is too small to afford real sovereignity in a modern world...

Hold our beer. We are getting those nukes and then we are telling everyone to f*ck off; maybe in a more diplomatic language (maybe).


Hey, we are richer than Taiwan, bigger than Italy and more populous than Canada.

While your key top politicians is on hook, nobody cares what you want. ;)

Our key top politicians are ascetic monks compared to your gold toilet sh*tters!

They are like Pawian - they may have their small shady businesses but first and foremost they love Poland. :)

I cannot say more that was said by Orban in their speech at Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC).

It was really funny to read about "small shady businnesses" of "greens" after Orban speech... My apologies to Germans...

• 
  
  

You want to complain about the "greens" (reds more like)? They are your agents--you train them, you pay them, complain to yourselves. ;)

How convenient... Any shithead here - blame Putin and nobody will be able to complain.

BTW: Why greens fails to work for Russia then?

Of course they work for Russia, at least in Poland - always trying to torpedo energy independence investments, nuclear plants, coal mining, Vistula Spit excavation etc., but they never protested against Nord Stream, for example.

Greens are Putin's lapdogs.

theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/26/man-charged-conducting-hostile-activity-uk-benefit-russia

North Nigerian sabotage squad caught in UK. Of course they are drunken amateurs and loners but that's about all the Orcs can afford these days

That would be something called: "A pro-gamer move"
At the levels of Joseph Stalin statehood&intrigue

It would force Poland to have cordial relations with Russia, and limit western influence drastically. Too much of a good bite to not try and chew it.

Alas I don't think leadership in Russia trusts any ex-Warsaw block members enough to even consider it. Poland hopes for nuclear bases, if Russia would offer Poland some few of her own nukes that she can easily shoot down. It would be a gesture of huge magnitude. It would shake the political scene in Poland.

First reaction would be shock or disbelief, most Polish politicians would see it as unbelievable or a provocation. So it would have to be handled with tact

Is anyone in Europe talking about the problems Ukraine is having with finding able-bodied soldiers?

Just recently Ukraine's desire to call up 500,000 men has been drastically reduced. Some analysts believe Ukraine would have trouble fielding an additional 50,000.

Zelensky has even gone as far as proposing the allowance of convicts and criminals. I recall when Russia did that, PF lambasted Putin and called Russia desperate.

Is the mood changing in Europe regarding goals in Ukraine? Is the prevailing position to drive out Russia from all of Ukraine? Or has that changed in light of Ukraine being meat grinder that appears desperate to find men to fight for the cause of a Russia-free Ukraine?

Why Ukraine doesn't make munitions and depends on western aid. Enough time has passed to start production of their own.

They are making a lot of drones and using them effectively - some of you seem obsessed with the idea that they should be using world war 1 tactics of aimless artillery and suicidal infantry charges

Definitely.

I have been saying this for ages. Poland should ally herself to whomever helps us acquire nuclear weapons, as it is indispensable for our survival.

If it's Russia then it's Russia, if it's the US it's the US. If they won't, it means they want a vassal not an ally. In such case we have to develop what we need ourselves and go neutral.

Hmm....the US has the NATO....that means also a kind of a nuclear umbrella as an argument for the worst case....the famous Article 5.

And I find it hard to imagine Putin nodding at a nuke-Poland....without any other arguments going for him.

Do you really believe the US will risk an all out nuclear war with Russia if they drop a nuke or two on Poland (or Germany for that matter)?

Calling up an additional 500,000 men, results in approx. $2-3B in additional monthly expenditures for the Ukrainian budget.

That is, potentially $36B a year. Perhaps more, since the UA government has been increasing bonuses for frontline duty.

The current aid packages are enough to fund Ukraine's budget for a year or more, but if mobilization kicked off on that scale - Ukraine would urgently need more funds.

Zelensky and his hapless chief commander have come up with some funny excuses for why they no longer want to raise 500K men. Their main argument now, is that following some magical "audit", they discovered hundreds of thousands of soldiers that have never been to the front.

The real problems, of course, are that:

1) No same person in Ukraine wants to join the army. It is a one way ticket, and tantamount to suicide - since there is still no law regarding demobilization.

2) They have alienated the entirety of the diaspora and refugees through their recent draconian laws that make those people second class citizens unless they enlist.

3) They have no money to pay these people

4) They do not have enough kit to equip these people with.

Even Russia could not easily stand up 500,000 men. America would struggle. Probably China would find it difficult.

How on Earth is Ukraine supposed to do it, with a $60B package supposed to last years?

@Ironside


They are, but building those factories takes time, even if your country is not actively bombarded.

english.nv.ua/business/rheinmetall-to-build-at-least-four-manufacturing-facilities-in-ukraine-50401282.html

@Tacitus

Tacitus, father of history, tell us - what happens to a country at war when it runs out of money and manpower?

With a name like that, you should be able to tell us at least something?

Good question.

But, it seems to be moot, as the Ukes can't get even a fraction of that into uniform.

Therefore, I wonder if the focus has shifted in Europe on what the goals of Ukraine should be. Do we keep the meat grinder open by supporting Ukraine's goal of pushing Russia completely out or do we tell Zelensky and the boys it's time to move the goal posts?

Honestly, that's what all those bright people from good families are clapping for, and patting each other on the back for.

Maybe they don't understand it, and that's probably better for my sanity and belief in the good of this world.

But... end of the day - that's exactly what Mike Johnson, et al, have done.

They killed another several hundred thousand people. Great job for such a spiritual person!

@Bobko

But, lest us not forget that Russian aggression opened the meat grinder in the first place. While I may have a certain intellectual empathy for Russian concerns of Ukraine chumming up with the West, there is no moral justification for having opened up the meat grinder.

If there was any indication that the goal was for Ukraine to force Russia to the negotiation table with the aim to get realistic concessions from both sides , I'd be all for arming Ukraine to the teeth. But, that's not happening...ao the meat grinder continues to grind and grind.

Fair enough, but even at the market there are two people: the seller and the buyer.

It is the same here. Many, many things could have been done after the initial aggression, that would have minimized 100-fold the bloodshed which has occurred.

I'm not arguing that every soldier should have laid down their arms and let us parade around Kiev. But there were other alternatives to what is happening now, which you correctly describe as a meat grinder.

Agreed. Russia had control over some of those alternatives, though. Putin was unwilling to surrender his goal, as Zelensky and his syndicate are unwilling to do now.

Russia has the chance to end this war at any moment. All it needs to do is to withdraw from Ukraine.

Let me educate you, morons...

NATO + Ukraine = War with Russia.

Got it, idiots, or is this still too complicated?

Just in case you are tempted to come back with shyt like "sovereign country" or "freedom and democracy", write it on a sheet of paper, roll it up, and shove it.

That is the most important thing in this debate.

The meat grinder will continue, on both sides, as long as the west continue to support Ukraine with arms and as long as Russia continues this futile invasion.

In the end, the west will not let Ukraine lose.If it comes to it, it will be WW3...... is Russia ready for that?

I don't think so.

Not futile at all. Russia now owns CDL and made Ukraine as unattractive to the EU and NATO as hookers with AIDS are unattractive to the johns.

If it is worth the deaths and expenses is up to Russia. Not my problem.

Blowing billions on a war nobody here gives a fvck about is my business because I am paying for this shyt.

Ukraine was part of the USSR so I don't give a rat's ass if one day it becomes part of Russia.

BTW, did I say that I celebrate when Russians kill NATO volunteers? I can watch those videos all day long...

US nuclear weapons in Poland would be priority military target - Moscow
Warsaw wants to host NATO arms under the bloc's sharing scheme

Russia would consider foreign deployments of nuclear weapons in Poland a primary military target, Deputy Foreign Minister Sergey Ryabkov has warned.

...and rightly so...

Just as the US considered Cuba with the Soviet nukes a target worth going to blows with the Soviets over...

I didn't realize that Poland has so many morons...The supply far exceeds the demand.