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Polish parliament refuses to consider shack-up draft between both traditional and same-sex couples


TheOther 5 | 3,762
1 Jun 2015 #61
Let's take your state, Johnny. In South Carolina, minors under 16 can obtain a court ordered marriage licence.

Quote:
"Younger minors can get a marriage license when the girl is pregnant or had a child with the man she's trying to marry."

statelaws.findlaw.com/south-carolina-law/south-carolina-marriage-age-requirements-laws.html

California is even "better". No minimum age limit with parental consent.

statelaws.findlaw.com/california-law/california-marriage-age-requirements-laws.html

Can't believe that's true (for both states and others), but it certainly looks like.

This thread is going off-topic, next posts not connected with Poland will be binned
Harry
1 Jun 2015 #62
This thread is going off-topic, next posts not connected with Poland will be binned

Getting this back to Poland, which of these two options would people choose for Poland if they had to choose one:
a) marriage with full equality for all unmarried adults (i.e. same-sex marriage, inter-racial marriage, marriage across faiths, either all religions' marriages being recognised as legal marriages or no religions' marriages being recognised as legal marriages, all rights of married couples being extended to unmarried couples, etc); or

b) marriage only in accordance with RCC law (i.e. legal to marry 14-year old girls, no remarriage for divorcees, etc).
smurf 39 | 1,981
1 Jun 2015 #63
Poland would choose b)
Until the older generation dies off and continues to hold such power in election this country will not change. It will remain in the doldrums, choosing to get left behind while the West progresses towards equality.

The next battle is full equality for women, equal pay, equal rights.
But Poland will be well behind on that too.
Christ, they get interviewed here and the misogynists still present in asking whether they plan to get pregnant soon, even though it's illegal to ask.
Gosc123456
1 Jun 2015 #64
@Smurf: agreed 100%! Poland shall change and follow the West. More and more Poles travel, learn languages, read foreign media but it'll take time. I am very often (happily) amazed when I hear some Polish youth.
Harry
1 Jun 2015 #65
Poland would choose b)

I think if Poland was asked to vote on it, the vote would go in favour of RCC marriage law, i.e. it's OK to marry children but not divorcees or members of the same sex. That's not because the majority of Poles support pedophilia, but because the more conservative Poles are more likely to vote. Look at the recent election: of the seven viovodeships that went for Duda, only two had a turnout below the national average; of the nine viovodeships that went for Komorowski, only two had a turnout above the national average. The top three in terms of turnout all went for Duda. The conservative in Poland aren't the majority but they do make the most noise and they do go out and vote; that is one of the key challenges which the equal rights movement in Poland faces.

Until the older generation dies off and continues to hold such power in election this country will not change.

Or at least until younger people stop being so lazy and start to vote.
Gosc123456
1 Jun 2015 #66
@Harry: it's true that over 50% of Poles don't bother to vote and among those voting, half of them do for non politicians (that Kukiz beats me!) and in case of a referendum, only the morhair old farts would vote as the Church tells them to vote. After they go (= die), Poland shall move forward.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
1 Jun 2015 #67
Poland shall move forward

...straight to hell!
Harry
1 Jun 2015 #68
Polonius, would you like to give us your thoughts on why Poland should follow the Vatican's ruling that marriage must be between a male and a female but Poland shouldn't follow the Vatican's ruling that marriage can be between a man and a child?
smurf 39 | 1,981
2 Jun 2015 #69
am very often (happily) amazed when I hear some Polish youth.

Agreed

but they do make the most noise and they do go out and vote; that is one of the key challenges which the equal rights movement in Poland faces.

Very true. if they could mobilise the youth it would make a difference. But saying that, when the choice is a centre right party or a right party then what difference does it really make. Poland's political problem is that there's so little choice, and even when you do vote, you don't even get to choose your representative, you just choose the party and the clowns running it choose who represents you.

We all know that democracy is the best of a bad lot, but Poland's version of it is a joke.
jon357 63 | 15,378
2 Jun 2015 #70
Youth (meaning anyone under 60) will eventually mobilise as you mention - if there's the threat of PiS having a crack at real power it will bring people out to vote as happened last time.

Equal marriage will happen anyway, probably sooner than anyone expects.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
2 Jun 2015 #71
Equal marriage will happen anyway,

Looking forward to the bisexual threesome and brother & sister nuptials. After men are allowed to say
"I do" what else can be the next stage? Certainly not being allowed marry one's household pet!? That's still some distance away.
jon357 63 | 15,378
2 Jun 2015 #72
Why not? In so much of the world marriage isn't limited to couples, inter species relations are far from new (and not unknown in Poland) soif that's how people want to live, whoever shouldn't they.
Atch 17 | 3,319
2 Jun 2015 #73
Polonius, would you like to give us your thoughts on why Poland should follow the Vatican's ruling that marriage must be between a male and a female but Poland shouldn't follow the Vatican's ruling that marriage can be between a man and a child?

It's known as a la carte Catholicsm where people pick and choose the bits of the religion that they want to follow and ignore the bits they don't. Most modern, progressive/reform Catholics are guilty of that including myself. It also works the other way with the very traditional ones who use certain doctrines to support their own agenda, but conveniently ignore the commandment to love your neighbour as yourself and deny their neighbour equal rights within the law. After all nobody is asking that same sex couples be allowed to marry in church, merely that they can have a civil marriage like any citizen.

Incidentally Harry, what about Judaism where a girl can marry at 12????? But I'd defy you to find a Catholic priest or a rabbi who'd actually carry out such marriage ceremonies. Of course these laws are hopelessly antiquated, dating from a time when life expectancy was low and people routinely married in their early teens. Look at Romeo and Juliet, she's fourteen and her mother is probably not more than thirty. Should be changed of course. We need a Vatican III.
Harry
2 Jun 2015 #74
what else can be the next stage?

Perhaps we will see the introduction of marriage purely according to Roman Catholic laws, i.e. marriage must be between a male and a female but it's OK if it's between a man and a child? Would you support such a reform?

what about Judaism where a girl can marry at 12?

It's clearly equally completely wrong.

but conveniently ignore the commandment to love your neighbour as yourself

In more than a few cases, the people who want to deny same-sex couples the right to marry do not love themselves: they hate themselves, because they can't simply face up to being the person they clearly are, such as our fellow poster here who thinks about gay men far more times per day than straight men think about sex.
Atch 17 | 3,319
2 Jun 2015 #75
Well now that's a bit of a leap of imagination, assuming somebody is in the closet. Polonius doesn't like any form of union between anybody that doesn't conform to the doctrine and dogma of the Catholic Church.
jon357 63 | 15,378
2 Jun 2015 #76
Same with millions - few of whom witter on constantly about it as if that's all that's swilling around their mind.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
25 Nov 2016 #77
Merged: Eu cannot force homo "marriage" on member states, Tribunal of Justice rules

The EU's Tribunal of Justice has ruled that it is up to individual states to determine whether to approve homo "marriage" or any other form of recognition of same-sex liaisons. The many normal people worried about Brussels trying to force perverse practices on member states can now breathe a sigh of relief.

TV Republika headlined its report: "After all, we do not have to recognise homosexual relationships."

telewizjarepublika.pl/jednak-nie-musimy-uznawac-zwiazkow-homoseksualnych,41139.html
Harry
26 Nov 2016 #78
homo

How many times in the average hour do you think about men having sex with other men?
peter_olsztyn 6 | 1,098
26 Nov 2016 #79
The many normal people worried about Brussels trying to force perverse practices

Normal people know that these are not perverse practices these are just practices. They are programmed this way and nothing can change it. No law and and their wishes. Normal people do not fight with rain.
mafketis 24 | 8,930
26 Nov 2016 #80
How many times in the average hour do you think about men having sex with other men?

Asking "how many times" implies that he sometimes does not think of it. My assumption is that he never stops thinking of it....

people worried about Brussels trying to force perverse practices on member states

In modern usage (as opposed to what you can copy out of a dictionary)

perverse =/= perwersyjny = perverted

perverse = uparty (possibly with a bit of bezinteresowne chamstwo and/or dziwaczność)

Well I'm against Brussels forcing people in member states to engage in homosexual activity no two ways about it.

But people obsessing about what a small minority of consenting adults do in private (or how they order their personal lives) is a lot more perverted than almost any sexual practice I've heard of....
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
26 Nov 2016 #81
the older generation

In some circles there still persists the myth that only the older generation are for common sense, moderation and decency, whilst the younger folk are all for gung-ho "anything goes". But times have changed and history shows that nothing stays the same permanently. It's surprising that the liberal-leftist establishment (the Obamas, Michniks, Schultzes, Hollandes and {Agnieszka} Hollands, etc.) have ruled the roost for so long and mainly thanks to their propaganda/PR skills which prevented people catching on to their ruses earlier. But now a new wave is sweeping the Western world, What has happened in Poland and the US and is building up momentum in Germany, France, Holland, Austria and elsewhere in the Western world shows that it is now younger people who are rejecting the liberal-leftist claptrrap. The main worry of the KOD-ists is that it is the late middle-agers and elderly that predominate, people who desperately want to preserve the undeserved perks and privileges of their comfy, elitist status quo.
mafketis 24 | 8,930
26 Nov 2016 #82
But now a new wave is sweeping the Western world

There's some truth to that in people all over the west are rejecting elements of rule by technocracy (when it is divorced from taking human nature into account). But... it's not very religious and not too concerned about a lot of traditional hot button reactionary issues or concerns of old fogies.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
26 Nov 2016 #83
technocracy

It goes beyond opposing just technocracy. If we look at the PiS and Trump phenomena and ascending trends in France, Gemany, Austria, Holland, etc. one can clearly see the public mood shifting away from globalism, one-worldism and extreme leftist-liberal values such as "political corrrectness", excessive diversity and inclusivism. Most people prefer to say Merry Christmas rather than "Seasons Greetgings" and not call the Yuletide evergreen a "holiday tree", Most people still euqate with traditional family values despite leftist/PC attemtps to label them "patriarchal" and "outdated" value such concepts as mother and father, reject replacing them with genderist "parent 1" and "parent 2" and prefer "ladies" and "gents" to unisex public toilets. And contarry to the leftist-liberal propaganda, most people are patriotic, proud of their countries and not ashamed to display their natioanl colours. There is every indication that this overall rightward/conservative shift will continue.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
26 Nov 2016 #84
small minority of consenting adults do in private

I agree wholeheartedly. But enshrining th LGBT agenda in school textbooks which ignore any arguemtns ot the contrary, pro-LGBT teachers encouraging young schoolchidlren to explore and experiment with their sexuality and/or declare their "orientation" at a tender young age and not tell their parents about it -- that goes way beyond the private sphere. LGBT types ostentatiously parading their differentness in the streets, unisex public toilets and suppressing those who disagree can hardly be called private. This is not about what consenting adults do in private but about heavily bankrolled agitators and operatives imposing their agenda on the rest of society.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
26 Nov 2016 #85
back to Poland

Poland would reject both extreme options. Most people in Poland would opt for legally recognised civil or religious marriage (involving all registered religious denominations) between one man and one woman. They would reject bloke on bloke liaisons, bisex combos, harems and anything that is not specified by the Polish Constitution.

Incidentlaly, all the HB-style pro-constitutionalists can now prove how sincere they are or whether they have simply used the constitution as a PiS-bashing weapon. The Polish Constitution defines marriage as a union between a man and woman, that means it rules out homo hook-ups as well as polygamy. It is more than unlikely any Sejm will collect enough votes to change that in the foreseeable future.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
26 Nov 2016 #86
he never stops thinking

On the contrary, the very thought of such practices is so utterly disgusting that I try to put it out of my mind and focus on the broader implications for society as a whole. HB is a self-declared sodomist and has plenty of hands-on experience in that particular area, so check with him for details.

Re perversion and perversity, the word itself is a matter of convention. If you prefer, homo practices can also be referred to as abnormal and unnatural sexual deviations.
Ironside 49 | 10,680
26 Nov 2016 #87
Polish government should follow an example of Germany and pass the law that the Polish law takes precedence over the EU laws.
So, we can dispense with slogans and an illusion that the Germany threats the EU integration seriously. They'll try to make those countris that will let them into German colonies and once it fail they will dump that project all together build some Franco-German plus few western European countries block.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
26 Nov 2016 #88
Polish law takes precedence over the EU laws

That's very interesting. I never knew that. Would you have a link? It can be in German.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
26 Nov 2016 #89
They are programmed this way

So are kleptomaniacs. All we need is a group of shrinks to gather and decriminalise theft by kleptos, becuase they were born that way and can't help it.
Wincig 2 | 220
27 Nov 2016 #90
That's very interesting. I never knew that. Would you have a link? It can be in German.

No link available because it is not true


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