Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps'

Anti-ANY group, as with legally stealing someone's inheritance by distributing said funds into joint accounts, for example, is technically not a "crime" per se, it IS though a moral outrage which leads, or often can lead, to further acts which are crimes, such as murder!!

The texts I mentioned above should suffice to quell certain insipient, attention-seeking agitators on PF once and for all. All ya gotta do is read 'em:-)

So are many of todays Arab states and many other countries are not happy with the Palestinian question either but non are building concentration camps and creating any kind of hollocaust scenarion.

Poland did not cause the holocaust nor did the population start slaying Jews on mass.


Mayebe cause allot of you went off to join the Bolsheviks and fight against Poland, or do you chose to deny this fact.

Reading the shite u write here I would get anti Jewish leanings if for a moment I thought all Jews were as dumb and blindsided as you are.

What to like here ?

@Lyzko
Sources please. Any official statement that Poland and the Church approved of killing Jews.
You can't provide them, can you?

Naming two random books that talk about antisemitism in Europe with no exact quotations from them or sources the authors referred to are not sources.

Let's reverse the situation and make the following claim: It is a well known fact that antipolonism is common among Jews.

You're a living proof of being raised in hatred and despise against Poland and the Catholic Church.
Your unbased bias against us is not different from any anti-Jewish sentiments among certain Poles.
Medice, cura te ipsum.

Probably the same type that fought with the soviets in 1919 or the same that joined the NKVD in WWII, but not the same as the four Jewish survivors of Auschwitz that I talked to as a young boy, they were all for remembering the past and building a better future, Lyzko just lives in the past with no wish for better understanding and relations

I'm pretty sure he would launch a few nukes against Poland if he could, while clinging to his German folk who he sees as penitent paid up and all forgiven.

Because these four people experienced the war.
I sometimes think some just want to feel like victims even though they were lucky not to experience the horror of the war. They can't appreciate the fact they lead a safe life.

As for his blind admiration of Germans and constant bias against Poland, it's probably better he lives his life now in the USA and not then in Poland.

This is a good point it's obvious he did not have close contact with those who survived those dark times if he did his tune would be somewhat different and more conciliatory, my parents were prisoners in Siberia, and as a young boy I could see the same pain and was able emphasise with those survivors of Auschwitz, the lesson is to move on and remember the lessons of the past, work harder not to repeat those horrible crimes.

I wonder if it's possible with antisemitic Poles and anti-Polish Jews.

Both are a disgrace to humanity, and very dangerous to have hanging around in civil society.

Anti jewish feelings prior to ww2 from poles? During the interwar period yes because the jewish lead bolsheviks, out of the top 5 leaders only stalin wasn't a jew, wanted to conquer poland and all of europe. The bolshevik jews had a 5th column of polish jews helping them out during their attempted invasion.

Don't forget that during the middle ages/rennaisance jews were kicked out of literally every single country in Europe and even n africa and middle east. Everyone was sick of them. Over 100 different countries, principalities, states had kicked them out. Poland was the ONLY country at the time that welcomed the jews. Yet if kazimierz the great had a crystal ball to see the future he would see what the jews would do to Poland - allying with invaders to overthrow the democratically elected government, kill tens of thousands of Poles including the ak members who fought the nazi and established zegota to help the jews.

So please, if some poles are anti zionist or even weary of jewish people in power theres a good reason for it.

@kaprys

Elie wiesel made a whole career and a bunch of money by pretending to be one such victim. Not saying he didn't suffer during ww2, but he grossly over exaggerated including his internment in Auschwitz which he cannot prove and refuses to show his tattoo. Same thing with one of the Hungarian jews who in night Elie claims he befriended. Well that guy went public and said that he never knew elie wiesel but the zionist media of course did everything to prevent more people from hearing whay he had to say. Afterall, zionists must ensure that the guilt tripping starts already in grade school with such books as night and fog.

The Jews at that time were desperately trying to find a place to call home and somewhere that they had political control, some Jews viewed communism as the mechanism that they would have power in Poland .

As it turns out the Jews have Israel today so statelessness is no longer such a burning issue and I for one am glad that they have a homeland at last, albeit they need to do a bit of work to sort out the Palestinian problem.

But Lyzko unlike you Dirk above and I do not need to search out questionable internet sources to explain the complexity of Polish Jewish relations at that time, our parents and grandparent were there on the ground, we have our facts from them.

If there ever was to be state sponsored anti semitsm In Poland it would have been after the Jewish betrayal in 1919, but this did not happen Jews were protected by our law and It was a minority that committed crimes against the Polish state.

Unlike you Lyzko I do not smear and attack a whole nation because of the acts of a minority

Lyzko has got a definite bias against Poland and it appears to be linked to his dislike of the Catholic Church, that he accuses over and over again of pushing antisemitism. As Poland is [and was during the war] majority Catholic, he believes Polish people in general were antisemities because the church was antisemitic [according to him].

Of course the proof of widespread antisemitism in the Catholic Church is nowhere to be seen, unless he wants to point us to a few more convenient books by authors who claim it was there. The Catholic Church might have mentioned that Jews wanted Christ to be killed, as in Christianity [not just Catholicism], this is believed to be factually true. I wouldn't call that antisemitism though, just what the church believes to be fact. If anyone goes to church now [as I do], they can tell you that when talking about Jesus being crucified, the general emphasis is on how 'we' [people collectively] are responsible for this horrific act, rather than blame constantly being put on Jews specifically.

Also, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but once again Lyzko is concentrating on the evils of others. 'Oh but there was a lot of antisemitism in Poland. Oh but the Catholic Church didn't lift a finger when this was happening.' Does he say anything about the USA and the powerful American Jewish organisations that were told about what was going on and didn't care? Nope, let's concentrate on the non-Jews.

If I were Jewish, I would be very upset at the non-Jews who took part in the Holocaust and those who turned the other way and ignored it. I would however be absolutely distraught to hear about Jews who turned on their fellow man and helped the Nazis, and the Jewish organisations who could have helped but didn't do anything. That would upset me much more. I would think 'non-Jews did terrible things to us but it was to be expected, there was much antisemitism around, but for our own people to turn on us and ignore us during this time, that's unforgivable.'

Interestingly Lyzko [and many Jews] doesn't take this approach. He prefers to concentrate on the terrible crimes of non-Jews, while excusing Jews for anything bad they might have done, trying to explain it or make it out as if they had no choice. It's an interesting mentality.

But it's almost as if he is trying to constantly bait the Polish posters on this forum in the hope they will say something terrible about the Jews, but its not the case and quite the opposite is true, we must never allow a destructive baiting minority like lyzko to give us a false view of the Jewish people as a whole, who I think are really the same as us, both suffering terribly at the hands of others.

Correction...."some Poles were not blameless". Your careful (or clumsy) choice of wording frames most of your posts.

It is also true to say that some Jews were equally guilty of sending fellow Jews to the gas chambers.

@WielkiPolak
That's actually a really good point. It might be shifting the blame to other people not to question the lack of action of his own people.

And now a genuine question: has anyone written a book about it?
There have been a lot of books about antisemitism. How about any books about the American Council of Jews ignoring Karski's report.

No, Wielki Polak, I'm not biased against Poles, I'm biased against stupidity and arrogance masquerading as truth.
In fact, I love the Polish language and Chopin's my favorite composer for classical piano....next to the Master (Beethoven), of course:-)

I don't think he's baiting, I think he is just biased.

I of course agree that there are many good Jewish people - it would be absurd to tar an ethnicity/religion with a broad brush. Sadly many others give them a bad name.


Not that I know of, but if somebody here does know of one and can point us to such a book, I for one would be very interested.

There have of course been books talking about exploitation of the Holocaust [Norman Finkelstein's 'The Holocaust Industry' is probably the most known and got him banned from Israel]. There is also a book called 'The transfer agreement' detailing a pre-war pact between Zionists and the Third Reich to transfer thousands of Jews to Palestine in exchange for putting a stop to the worldwide Jewish-led boycott on German products.

There certainly aren't many of these types of books though and I don't know of any detailing Karski's report and how it was ignored by Jewish organisations, although it has been spoken about by many commentators in Poland, even on TVP recently [after Israel's overreaction to the law]. It wouldn't surprise me if a book was written about it soon and/or a documentary made.

@Kaprys,

Interesting that you look for sources of information about Poles "allegedly" being anti-Semitic without stopping to even consider the converse, namely, why were many Jews from the shtettls often anti-Polish.

The Holocaust was not some sort of equal relationship which can merely be reduced to "Look at what YOU did...!" etc.

The materials I listed prior to this post are readily available for your perusal, any time you're interested in learning from standard and acknowledged studies on this subject.

Pfft on the back pedal


Yep that's where your problem lies , no real independent or life based understanding at all .

I suggest we all ignore this guy in the future he thrives on discord and is just acting as an agitator of ill feeling between modern day Poles and Jews alike, no friend of either in my opinion.

It doesn't take a lot of research to see that yes a lot individual Poles are anti-Semitic or apply stereotypes to Jews but that doesn't mean they'll act violently towards them.... There was no Polish state sponsored pogroms - the few pogroms that occurred were very small in comparison to other pogroms throughout Europe and were the overreactions of a few Poles upset after WW2 as it was in a state of near civil war. The commie Jews and Soviets were fighting against the Poles and invaded the country. The Polish Jews however were very cruel to Poles and committed many atrocities as they allied immediately with the invading Soviets. Plus, 6 years of constant war and occupation will make you do crazy things to survive so of course there's going to be evil acts on both sides.. Yes there were individual Poles that robbed the Jews along with Nazis and extorted them - however there was also the AK state which prosecuted such activities with a death sentence... nonetheless Poles helped Jews in many ways with AK, Zegota, etc. only the NSZ had some bad elements which attacked Jews. Yet the Jews too committed atrocities against Poles from 1945 to the 50's as they were allied with Stalin's Bolsheviks. They killed tons of AK members - despite them helping Jews during WW2. Then the Jewish in PL Communist parties' influence waning out in the early 60's esp with the anti Zionist fervor that swept over.


Then why has this been the line of the Zionist lobbies for 70+ years

Don't ask me, I'm not a Zionist.

@dolno et al,

Since when is being a "friend" of someone or something the same as not criticizing rationally when one sees something wrong? I've posted this question for nearly as long as this thread has existed, yet have not gotten an answer, almost as though I said nothing.

But Lyzko,you have said nothing.....so nobody knows what you are talking about.
Please explain......

what do you see wrong (besides Polish people, quite rightly, not feeling collective guilt for the holocaust)?

@Lyzko
You love the Polish language so I'll teach you: nie odwracaj kota ogonem.
You still HAVEN'T provided any sources supporting your claim that Poland and the Church approved of killing Jews.
You named two books (just the titles really) that talk about antisemitism in Europe. I googled them. One focuses on Germany according to what I found online. The books are just two of many that talk about the same subject - how Jews are hated. Both authors are Jewish if I remember correctly.

I asked about a book that researches the indifference of influencial American Jews to what was happening in Europe. Is there anything that focuses on this topic?

How about your parents and grandparents, Lyzko? What did they do?
No one denies antisemitism in Poland but not all Poles are antisemitic. Antisemitism exists everywhere. Stop generalising. Especially that you're so narrow minded and judgemental.

So, have you got any objective sources to support your claim?

@Miloslaw,

If you understand English (which apparently you do), you'd have grasped what I've written and not need to follow up with meaningless commentary meant to do nothing other than play psychology with other posters!

@kaprys, being a Roman Catholic, perhaps you'd get the gist of what I'm saying by recalling that wonderful quote from the New Testament "Hate the sin, but not the sinner". Regarding the books I recommended for your and other's edification which were both written by Jews (which objectively ought to make no difference whatsoever), try Dieter Zimmer's "The Destruction of the Jews", which I'm certain is available in both Polish as well as English translation:-) He is a German gentile who, like Ernst Klee, is a serious historian of the period.

I had the same problem as Miloslaw I did not have a clue as to what you meant to say in that post

"I've posted this question for nearly as long as this thread has existed, yet have not gotten an answer, almost as though I said nothing."

What on earth are you on about?.

@Lyzko
There's a difference between an opinion and a fact.

Indeed there is, and so kindly remember same before you or others disseminate questionable truths; there's only one!

@dolno,
I'll mail you a translation:-)

I hope one day you will open your mind. Although I highly doubt it.
What a pity I got no sources again.
But let's face it, I won't get them.

@Lyzko

Lol, you want to lecture a peaceful country, versus a country who shot 800 protesters and murdered a journalist the other day. Brilliant.