Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps'

Absolutely agree with Dirk(Adrian).
Time to move on.
The animosity of older generations has no place in the here and now.

But the lessons learned by the older generation has its place, but sadly so much ignored by the generation of today roll on WWIII

Dolno,I was referring to Dirks post about Catholic and Jewish Poles.
No WW3 coming between Poland and Israel......

Dunno its a crazy world, sorry I got the wrong end of the stick.

@Miloslaw

Well tell that to the zionists... although some poles still refuse to admit that there were pogroms against jews. Granted there were only 2 well known omes that combined lead to several hundred dead. Although compare that to state organized pogroms all over europe esp in russia germany etc the polish pogroms arent even in the same league

@Dirk diggler

I know of 3 of such "pogroms"
1. was during or right before Polish soviet war when too large groups were not allowed to assemble in public. (Paranoia about communists talking publicly so no large group assemblies were allowed to meet, as there were plenty of Polish Jews in communist parties instead of PPS or ND... Poles were naturally suspicious when a large group of Orthodox Jews assembled and talked without following the law either because of the lack of knowing Polish or not paying attention. Not knowing Polish well enough created suspicion about ones loyalty towards Poland ) Which was a misunderstanding but it worsened relations with the international community ever since cause of American Jews and others who spread it fearing pogroms... Poland isn't Russia... But never mind that

2. Can't remember name but you sure know what I am talking about. Barn German bullets, either German soldiers or local partisans (last time I checked there were very few farmers with machine pistols and that many bullets. So one would have to check a lot more. Also the locals there remember how Jews welcomed Soviet soldiers and were happy that now their "equal" with Poles even tho a Jew saying it lost his shop cause of the red army...

3. Kielce was orchestrated by "Polish" communists if I am not mistaken. One only has to dig a little bit about the workers and their "leaders" agenda. Local militia at that time was also communist.

One should not forget that Poles felt a lot of distaste for any minority in Poland aiding the enemies in 1939 without fighting for an independent Poland

The motto of the Polish revolution was after all
Freedom - Equality - Independence
On a state level - national level
Even tho Poles are very individualistic and consider themselves individuals first and foremost. When needed they band together in crises (either plane crash, injustice, solidarity, war etc) When other "non-Polish" citizens didn't do the same it invoked fury and invokes fury to this day. Anyone wishing to harm Poland makes a grave error, as Polish children, mothers, fathers, sons and daughters fought for an independent Poland since the partitions. It was lead by Kośćiuszko which failed cause he didn't learn how to fight like Napoleon. He copycatted French defensive tactics instead of following Napoleons example like Polish lancers did. But he refused to acknowledge Napoleon which I respect him for it. After all he crowned himself and wasn't crowned by the Pope, he saw himself as above all. Even God

Nobody is above God. One can have his love, his spirit. But never be above our dear Lord. If anyone loves our lord the most and pray for Poland's salvation it's Polish catholics. Check out Żegota if you don't know about it allready, a Polish anti-semite wanted to save Jews simply because it was Christian thing to do. Others were scared for their lives during the occupation. Who can blame them? Everybody should know the terrors and horrors suffered at the hands of the SS&NKVD and later UB.

One only needs to see Katyń to imagine it, or Battle for Warsaw. Unless one knows their family history well enough. Cause I know mine, and I know what to be ashamed of and what to be proud of. Forgive but never forget

So 3 total pogroms from poles against jews all in the civil war post ww2 environment in ww2 where at most several hundred died....
Compare that to the tens of thousands killed and jailed by sb/ub, a majority commie jewish organization, nkvd and hundreds of thousands persecuted... I'm well aware of zegota, but thanks to the zionist msm most non poles are not.

The commie jew led red army and bolshevik party tried to invade and overthrow poland in the 20s polish soviet war but were repelled. However during ww2 they took full advantage of the war to try to make poland communist and kill the opposition and this time they succeeded. The result being tens of thousands dead. And yet the same family who killed AK soldiers today runs a socialist newspaper in which they take every opportunity to lambast poland while praise israel and jewry. It makes me sick!! I hope wyborcza one day is appropriated or shut down or just goes away whatever it takes. It's a slap in the face to every pole whos descendants fought the nazis only to be killed by a commie jew right after.

If poles read off the name of every new that was killed during the 3 pogroms between the 20s to the 50s wed be done within a few hours. If jewish commies read off the nnewspaperame of every pole they killed theyd need to clear off their calendars for a few weeks. The numbers done even compare - few hundred vs tens of thousands if not hundreds... plus all the people deported, jailed, etc.

Again we can make up and move on, but again everyone has their version of events and its time poles make the world familiar with ours. Despite suffering more than any other nation during and after ww2 we've been totally shafted. It's the biggest miscarriage of international justice in the modern world.

@Miloslaw, as far as letting bygones be bygones concerning WWII, the Shoah and reparations, when is the "other side" willing to do the same?

When visiting Dachau Concentration Camp many years ago, I found I'd lost my way leading towards the main grounds and innocently asked a middle-aged woman directions (in German, as apparently she didn't understand English). "Why d'you people always have to remind us?" she snapped, evidently annoyed by my query,

to which I retorted "Because you people will never let us forget!".

Let me help you out Lyzko. Assigning any blame to the Polish nation for the Holocaust is immoral, and downright disgusting after what that country endured. They played no part in the holocaust. The present state of Israel is an apartheid nation, not a democracy, which thumbs its nose at the United Nations despite being a signatory to the convention on human rights. They have become what they most despised.

That's so not true.... and even Norman Finkelstein, who's parents lived in the Warsaw ghetto, writes about this very phenomenon in his book 'The Holocaust Industry.' I met him a few years back at DePaul.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_Industry


Once Poland and the Polish people receive their


Greece, S Korea, Jews, Israel, and plenty of other groups and governments got theirs - the US even funded the entire reconstruction of Japan even though they refused to surrender till the bitter end.... same with Germany....

Poland however was betrayed..... yet again.... not only did we receive jack sh1t and no one in the West dared stand up to USSR and we had to overthrow the commies our own own - literally a David and Goliath battle in which we ended up prevailing... so whenever someone says that Poland doesn't deserve reparations they clearly don't know the history of the country and are insulting the millions of people who died, lost their loved ones, their homes - everything with ZERO compensation to this day. The amount of Jews that died in WW2, had their possesions taken, and all that is roughly similar to the amount of Poles that suffered the same - and for far longer as after WW2 were under USSR control.

This is indeed a sticky wicket, and getting stickier! Poland was obviously NOT the instigator of the Holocaust, but was surely not blameless in allowing numerous private citizens to kowtow to Hitler's anti-Semitic policies either. Where was the Church, for example, in all of this?

Their awful record of stoking the flames of anti-Semitism for centuries clearly speaks for itself...and it's not done speaking, believe me.

Finkelstein's book is a cheap shot at the actual history of the Holocaust and seems more appealing in terms of its shock value than anything else.

So, Lyz, dobri prijatelju, you are a Jew, after all? Nice. I like transparent and democratic discussion.

As for English. I will try. You try respect to Svetovid, in the meanwhile.

Nice try, Crow.

Perhaps, but it doesn't change the fact that the holocaust has been used ever since the end of ww2 for political and financial gain, especially by Israeli lobbies in us and germany and as an excuse to steal thousands of square kilometers from the Palestinians. The jews never intended to share the land with palestinians and most still dont want to. Also, there have been more claims for reparations from jews and their descendants than there were jewish victims, even if going by the 6 mil number.

If we want to discuss fakes we should talk about elie wiesel who refuses to show his Auschwitz tattoo and the Hungarian jew who befriended him has said that elie wiesel is not the same man who he was interned with.

What try pane?

Sorry. My English.

Chicanery and cynicism will never delute the facts that the Holocaust was most venal crime ever perpetrated on humanity, if nothing else, owing to its methodical, cold-blooded ruthlessness.

There are "fakers" and have been throughout history. Why should the Holocaust be any different?

Where was the Church?
Polish clergymen were sent to concentration camps and methodically murdered, too. Many of them as part of killing the Polish intelligentsia. There was a list of tens of thousands of Poles to be murdered at the very beginning of the war.

Polish priests and nuns were awarded the title of the Righteous among the Nations. You often mention Irena Sendler - where did she hide the children? Are you able to answer this question, mr historian?

Can you give us a source that supports your claim that Poland and the Church approved of killing Jews?
How about Spira and his men helping to hang Polish civilians?

It's not that jews dont deserve reparations and certain concessions... but enoughs enough... there's tens of millions of others ww2 victims and their families who have been completely forgotten as a result including poles

Kaprys, those indeed pointed examples were unfortunately merely the tip of the iceberg, far from representative of traditional Church doctrine.
These valiant clerics were therefore the exception, but not the rule.

The story of Jesus driving out the Jewish money changers etc. could scarcely be processed as some sort of parable by the ignorant or semi-literate churchgoing masses throughout Europe. This simply fueled anti-Jewish hostility.

Sources? Or you're being hatefully generalising AGAIN.

Priests that are among the Righteous:
ks. Bruno Boguszewski, ks. Stanisław Falkowski, ks. Mikołaj Ferenc, ks. Władysław Głowacki, ks. Marceli Godlewski, ks.Józef Gorajek, ks. Antoni Kania, ks.Michał Kubacki, ks. Albin Małysiak, ks. Aleksander Osiecki, ks. Andrzej Osikowicz, ks. Jan Patrzyk, ks. Jan Pawlicki, ks. Jan Poddębniak, ks. Jan Raczkowski, ks. Adam Skałbania, ks.Franciszek Smorczewski, ks. Witold Stolarczyk, o. Klemens Szeptycki, o.Adam Sztark, ks. Witold Szymczukiewicz, ks. Ludwik Wolski, o.Ludwik Wrodarczyk, ks. Wincenty Mieczysław Zawadzki, ks. Jan Zawrzycki, ks. Ignacy Życzyński

...and there were die Geschwister Scholl, Prof. Huber, the plotters in the '44 plot to assassinate Hitler, ALL "PURE" GERMANS!! Each was executed in the most god awful manner.

The point is that only when pushed did the Catholic Church in Europe lift a finger to help the Jews, don't let's gloss over Pope Pius and his role during the War.

Only in the '80's did the Vatican under the great Lolek Wojtyla apologize to the Jews for the millennia of Church-sponsored anti-Semitism.

Please, kaprys and others, don't do me any favors. Reparations cut both ways, and the Claims Conference hasn't been exactly generous to survivors either.

You clearly think you can reason with him on this issue. Disengage, he will never see Poland as anything but as a co-architect (or at least sub-contractor) of the holocaust. He's prepared to be magnanimous once Poland admits this but he'll never think anything else and no evidence can/will convince him.

Disengage, it's not worth it, he's approaching crow levels of insanity....

@Lyzko
Your ignorance is astounding.......
Please read some books instead of learning from the internet.
Please make sure all the books are written by Poles who lived through WW2 in Poland.
Pick 50% Jewish writers and 50% Catholic writers.
Then you will know the truth......
Until then,please stop making your ignorant,offensive posts.

@Lyzko
You claimed that Poland and the Church approved of killing Jews. Where are your sources?
@mafketis
Yeah, he's an expert who knows everything about a time before he was born, about a country he allegedly spent only several hours in, with no family affected by the war.

What knowledge do you have of those times told u before clean house before u throw stones I told you about the Jewish conspirators who sided with the Bolsheviks, my grandfather did not return to his village after fighting them to kill and persecute his Jewish neighbour , he thanked them for tending his land while he was away.

I could rant on about the Jewish partisans that murdered my people along side the soviets in kresy during WWII, who then subsequently took our land when my family were deported to Siberia. I don't rant about it because I do not blame the Jewish people as a Whole for those crimes, neither should you blame the whole Polish nation because of similar Polish random lunatics who also committed crimes at that time..

You are fiddling while Rome is burning , anti antisemitism is on the rise the UK opposition party are supporters of antisemitism and also have many antisemitic members, focus your concerns there, Poland at least is trying to engage in dialogue to build friendship and is tough on anti Antisemitism and holocaust denial.

Great post Dolno.
My family was also from Kresy and spent time in a Siberian "holiday camp",my grandmother died there.
Despite The Jews heavy collaboration with the Russians I hold nothing against Jews in general.
Quite the reverse,I support Israel.
And yet still idiotic posts from people like Lyzko keep coming......
That is the problem wIth the internet.
Any idiot can post.

I feel exactly the same I invited him to come and stay with me to see how things are in today's Poland but no he thought it might be some kind of ambush.

trouble is the jewish press seem to feed this idea that Poland is a bad place full of evil doers, I think the opposite if the arabs gang up and remove israel poland would be one of the first countries to open its doors for jewish refugees.

I dont even complain to Lyzko about the Palestinian old men women and children who are being shot with live rounds because they jump a piece of barbed wire in the sand . double standards or what.

Same. My uncle and his family was deported to Smolensk in a cattle car. They gradually made it back to Poland - first Minsk, then back to Poland. They were forcibly removed from their home and didn't return till a decade later. An UPA partisan tried to kill him but a Wermacht officer intervened and he was spared and he was just a kid at the time.

No one is doubting that double standards have always been with us, and regrettably always will be, in all likelihood!
It is though a known fact that Poland was a country with strong anti-Jewish leanings, especially before the Second World War.

For heaven's sake, when people here talk about "sources", I've probably read in total more on this subject than most, for instance "The War Against The Jews" by Lucy Davidowicz, "The Destruction of the European Jews" by Raoul Hilberg, in addition to more books by German non-Jewish historians than most here could shake a stick at, so don't condescend to me.

Even if people were to accept that (for the sake of argument) having strong anti-Jewish leanings is not a crime and in no way shape or form supports your implied claim that Poles share collective guilt with nazi germany in carrying out the holocaust.


you're the one who started condescending, if you stop p[robaboly others will...