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Does Polish hotel have right to turn down Americans and Israelis?


pawian 176 | 15,438
3 Aug 2012 #1
The ombuds office is lodging a complaint against a hotel in southern Poland which refuses to accept tourists from the USA and Israel and informs about it on their website.

The Ombudsman took the matter ex officio resort in Malopolska , which on its website announces : "Do not serve guests from the United States and Israel" and inflate prices for foreign tourists . On Friday morning, they were sent a letter to the Office of Competition and Consumer Protection in Krakow , to the Municipal Police Headquarters in Nowy Sacz and to the Speaker's Office . The controversial offer guesthouse informed editors Kontaktu24 Stefan .

Rightly or not?

After all, it is a private hotel and the policy they apply is their business.

Ombud`s office claims it is ethnic and racial discrimination.

What could be the hotel owner`s motives?

First thing that comes to my mind is the threat of a terrorist attack.
Second, Israeli tourists, especially youth, are believed to like demolishing sites where they stay.

PS. The whole matter is strange because I tried to locate that hotel in google and couldn`t. All results go back to the news article.

Could it be a provocation?
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
3 Aug 2012 #2
Why would he not let Americans in?
OP pawian 176 | 15,438
3 Aug 2012 #3
For the same reason as the other group - terrorist attack.
grubas 12 | 1,390
3 Aug 2012 #4
Why would he not let Americans in?

It's most likely about American Jews.

Second, Israeli tourists, especially youth, are believed to like demolishing sites where they stay.

They are taking revange on Poland for murdering Jews (that's the way they think in their sick minds).
But what Rzecznik Praw OBYWATELSKICH has to do with it.They are not citizens of Poland so he should find something better to do.
Harry
3 Aug 2012 #5
What could be the hotel owner`s motives?

Possibly he's a racist dipshiit?
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
3 Aug 2012 #6
What could be the hotel owner`s motives?

Hmm..A friend from Lezajsk told me about how Israeli and American Jews (largely Orthodox) come there for a pilgrimage to visit the tomb of Elimelech at the Jewish cemetery. They stay at the local hotels, completely trashing the place, showing absolutely no respect. That could be the reason.
jon357 67 | 16,654
3 Aug 2012 #7
I notice that they charge 60 pln for guests from inside Poland and 60 euro for guests from abroad. Tawdry and almost certainly illegal. I wonder if they've heard of the Single European Market?

Does anyone know what the holiday centre's called, so we can name and shame, making sure people don't unwittingly fall for their offer? After all, if they get up to these sorts of tricks it's probably a ghastly place to stay with service that makes Fawlty Towers look like the Ritz.
grubas 12 | 1,390
3 Aug 2012 #8
I notice that they charge 60 pln for guests from inside Poland and 60 euro for guests from abroad. Tawdry and almost certainly illegal. I wonder if they've heard of the Single European Market?

It is his property and he can do with it whatever he wants to.And we can talk about Single European Market when Poles will earn what other Europeans earn.

Does anyone know what the holiday centre's called, so we can name and shame,

You can try all you want just first read comments under this news.Overwhelming majority of commentators support this guy and so do I.
jon357 67 | 16,654
3 Aug 2012 #9
Overwhelming majority of commentators support this guy and so do I.

An overwhelming majority of people who leave comments on internet sites can support whoever or whatever they want. Poland however has laws. I look forward to the proprietors being prosecuted.
grubas 12 | 1,390
3 Aug 2012 #10
Hmm..A friend from Lezajsk told me about how Israeli and American Jews (largely Orthodox) come there for a pilgrimage to visit the tomb of Elimelech at the Jewish cemetery. They stay at the local hotels, completely trashing the place, showing absolutely no respect.

Same in Krakow!
jon357 67 | 16,654
3 Aug 2012 #11
This hotel however would charge a Czech many times more than a Pole. Here's the relevant EU statement:

The principle of non-discrimination means that service providers cannot, for example, grant less favourable terms on the sole grounds of the nationality or place of residence of the recipient. This would for example prevent EU citizens being charged different access fees to museums based on nationality or different fees for participation in sports events, such as marathons, based on their Member State of residence. However, this does not prevent service providers from applying different tariffs and conditions if this is justified by objective reasons, such as additional costs resulting for example from the distance involved.

Polsyr 6 | 769
3 Aug 2012 #12
I recently had a long talk with my lawyer in Poland about a similar situation.

As a privately owned business, your right to deny service to anyone without having to give a reason is guaranteed by law, with health care being the only exception, and even then, they can tell anyone to go to a public health care facility and claim they are not properly equipped and/or qualified to treat them.

Just take a look at the fine print on the paper you sign everytime you apply to open a bank account, check into a hotel, take a post-paid telephone line or file any kind of application or agree to any kind of end-user agreement. They all state somewhere that "we reserve the right to deny the service to anyone at our sole discretion without having to provide a reason or notice". I can guarantee you it will be written there in one form or another.

Also, businesses are allowed to deny service to a specific nationality. Recently, a person from Czech complained against a restaurant and hotel in Wroclaw that posted a sign on their door stating that they do not serve Czechs. In another incident, a well known bank notified a customer in writing that they do not provide any kind of banking service to people of a certain nationality, and that includes companies partially or fully owned by people of this nationality regardless of where these companies are registered.

Accordingly to my lawyer, in both cases the business owners did not break any law.
Harry
3 Aug 2012 #13
Accordingly to my lawyer, in both cases the business owners did not break any law.

You should think about getting a new lawyer.

romea.cz/english/index.php?id=detail&detail=2007_3198
Lenka 3 | 2,551
3 Aug 2012 #14
This hotel however would charge a Czech many times more than a Pole. Here's the relevant EU statement:

Many countries have double prices.I don't know anything about hotels but i witnessed double prices for exhibitions and so on in other countries.I'm against it but that's how it is.As to the case of refusing the Americans and Israelis...I think the hotel owner have the right to choose his clients although I think he's a scumbag for making assumption about whole nationalities.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,456
3 Aug 2012 #15
Accordingly to my lawyer, in both cases the business owners did not break any law.

You should get a new laywer - fast. If that's the kind of advice that he's dishing out, then who knows what else he's doing wrong?

your right to deny service to anyone without having to give a reason is guaranteed by law

Except when it breaches other laws, and especially the Constitution.
jon357 67 | 16,654
3 Aug 2012 #16
i witnessed double prices for exhibitions and so on in other countries.

In which countries?
teflcat 5 | 1,032
3 Aug 2012 #17
Russia is possibly the worst offender. When I worked there between '96 and '99 (I know, it's a while ago, but I was recently told things haven't changed) foreigners were expected to pay six times the normal entry fee for the Hermitage in St. Petersburg. I stood my ground and after about 15 minutes of demanding to see someone in authority was waved through. At the Mariinsky theatre I tried to buy two 5-dollar tickets for the ballet, and the hag behind the glass wanted $100, (in dollars). On this occasion I had to walk away and ask a Russian colleague to buy my tickets.

This dual pricing is against the law in Russia but it seems that every institution does it.
btw In Turkey museums are cheaper for Turks (and even cheaper for teachers).
jon357 67 | 16,654
3 Aug 2012 #18
Czech used to be notorious for it, but as far as I know it tailed off after EU entry. Russia and Turkey don't surprise me, however in the EU trying any kind of discrimination on the grounds of nationality is a legal minefield.

They probably think they're getting around it by doing it on the basis of residence rather than nationality, but they're wandering into a legal minefield unless they have a tangible reason affecting cost of service delivery. A foreigner with Polish residency could get a very nice payout from the courts if they were told in front of witnesses that they have to pay a different rate to a Pole.
Ironside 50 | 11,103
3 Aug 2012 #19
It is not about different rates but about a right to refuse to provide service for certain people. I think that you cannot take away that right.
Harry
3 Aug 2012 #20
a right to refuse to provide service for certain people.

A right which does not exist under Polish law, as the owner of Cuba Libre in Poznan discovered to his cost.
f stop 25 | 2,513
3 Aug 2012 #21
That is an interesting question: Is there a need for a place where American tourist will not be found? And, if so...how do you cater to the clientele you want, without illegally excluding the rest?

Usually, that is done with pricing - where the undesirables are usually in the lower economic classes and are simply priced out.
But that would not have worked here...

I've seen a hotel in Miami Beach recently that tried to cater to gay customers only, where the rainbows displayed everywhere were still not enough for some clueless people.

Youth oriented places will simply blast the music in public places and warn potential guests that there is no use complaining.

So, how do you scare off a typical American tourist without getting into trouble?
4 eigner 2 | 831
3 Aug 2012 #22
Does Polish hotel have right to turn down Americans

If this will ever become public in the US, don't be surprised if there will be a lot more of anti Polish sentiment here (and rightly so). You wanna play your "arrogant" games, you gotta live with the consequences of it. I've never heard of American hotels refusing Poles.
sa11y 5 | 331
3 Aug 2012 #23
In which countries?

South Africa, Botswana and Namibia are also good examples... If I remember correctly India and Nepal also had different fees for tourists and for locals. This is common practice in developing countries, but completely unfair and unjustified in Europe, I haven't seen places in Poland doing this, so I'm hoping that this hotel is the "rotten apple". Accommodation in Poland is NOT cheap. We paid less in Spain, Italy or Greece not long time ago.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
3 Aug 2012 #24
The hotel certainly does have the right to turn away customers for whatever reason. However, they should not discriminate against all based on the actions of a few.
Piorun - | 658
3 Aug 2012 #25
Look who’s crying, even the junk food stands in US refused the service to anyone not ordering in English, having a funny accent or being bold enough to ask for “French fries” Geno's Steaks, Hallo! Signs “We Reserve the Right to Refuse Service to Anyone” are everywhere; restaurants, hotels motels etc. One of the legitimate reasons for a restaurant to refuse service in US is when the patrons come in just before closing time or when the kitchen is closed (a case in Krakow) yet they ***** and moan about it when it happens to them. Patrons who are unreasonably rowdy or causing trouble, that may overfill capacity if let in, lacking adequate hygiene, accompanied by large groups of non-customers looking to sit in etc can and do get kicked out of any Hotel, Motel or Restaurant in the US yet expect to be served while doing all of the above destroying the property in the process while in a foreign country claiming discrimination. What can I say; your reputation precedes you hence the sign.

I've never heard of American hotels refusing Poles.

That’s because they never had a chance to see the Polish passport with a valid US visa to do just that. Do you know ha many Poles every year are stopped and sent back on the next flight home after obtaining a visa in the US consulate for which they pay a hell a lot of the money only to be turned back at a border because some border guard does not like the passport of the legit visa holder? If that’s not a case of obvious discrimination then I have no idea what is. What goes around comes around; keep at it, soon your reputation will be beyond repair. Sad but true.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
3 Aug 2012 #26
Look who’s crying, even the junk food stands in US refused the service to anyone not ordering in English, having a funny accent or being bold enough to ask for “French fries”

NO WAY!!! I have worked in fast food. No one is ever turned away because of communication issues. Deaf people are welcome, even, and they have to write stuff down to order. People who get banned have caused disruptions and problems, or broken laws and gotten caught. They can get banned for a period of time or indefinitely from any business establishment. Fast food places certainly do not discriminate against people who have done nothing wrong based on the actions of those who have, though.
f stop 25 | 2,513
3 Aug 2012 #27
Do you know ha many Poles every year are stopped and sent back?

Really? How many?
jon357 67 | 16,654
3 Aug 2012 #28
It is not about different rates but about a right to refuse to provide service for certain people.

On what basis?

South Africa, Botswana and Namibia are also good examples.

Agreed 100%.
OP pawian 176 | 15,438
3 Aug 2012 #29
They are taking revange on Poland for murdering Jews (that's the way they think in their sick minds).

I am not sure if that is the correct explanation.
Aren`t Jewish youth generally spoilt by their parents so they also cause immense trouble at home/school in Israel, not only in Poland?

When abroad, they feel even more unconstrained than at home..... That is why they break everything in hotels.

haaretz.com/culture/arts-leisure/rescuing-parents-from-the-tyranny-of-spoilt-youth-1.30000

The parents apparently were not upset that Prof. Omer, a psychology expert, had just referred to their children - students at Ironi Daled high school in Tel Aviv - pejoratively as "aggressive adolescents" who are "occupiers, drunk with power" and "tyrants."

"You can't give in to them," he lectured for over an hour, telling parents how to regain control over their modern children - assuming that all the parents present had indeed lost control and were helpless. Not a single word of empathy for today's youth was uttered. Even the word "rebellion" was not mentioned - it is too positive.

grubas 12 | 1,390
3 Aug 2012 #30
How many?

Many,many.


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