Future of Polish-Ukrainian relations

It is but that you can gauge the real state of mind of your average Urkainan who is interested in politics.

:):) I didn`t say it. What I suggested is your biased choice of comments from Russian troll infested sites where pro Polish ones are blocked.

You are wasting time - even if those critical comments are truly written by common Ukrainians, I can easily forgive them coz they don`t know what they are doing.

Why I can`t forgive you coz you are spreading antiUkrainian propaganda with the same wicked intention that paid Kremlin trolls are guided by all over the global net.

You see? You are still imperialist Russian scum, while those critical Ukrainians are only disappointed people tired of the war and disillusioned with scant Western aid.

Precisely.

Otherwise, you need to conduct actual surveys.

Going to Kiev for a business trip, and talking to a dozen Ukrainians - does not qualify as evidence.

The fact is - Polish actions over the course of the past year are interpreted as being extremely hostile in Ukraine. Goodwill between the two nations, is evaporating rapidly, while it was built on a shaky foundation to begin with.


I know, I know. I'm just having some fun this morning, while waiting for my plane)

It's kind of you, to be able to understand the Ukrainians despite the present intensity in relations.

You must admit, however, that it is interesting to you to read these perspectives? I really was not trying to pick the worst ones, but rather the ones that were most popular. When you finally figure out how to access the comments there (maybe a VPN?), you'll see I wasn't misleading you in any way.

In the last post, I included all the pro-Polish rebuttals.

Poland may view Ukraine as a "strategic ally", but Ukraine does not view Poland in the same way. This is why Polish complaints about ingratitude mostly fall on deaf ears in Ukraine, because in their view it's America and Britain that are helping altruistically - while Poland is just covering its ass.

More the mouthing off of people who talk trash in online comments fields. A bit like saying that the filth from 'novichok' is the state of mind from an average Pole.

Plus of course, the r*SSians have been writing crap in comments fields since their illegal and unprovoked invasion started so they can pretend people in a particular country are saying this whole in reality they aren't.

They try it in newspaper BTL fields in the U.K. though they never quite get the English right.

Your facts are bs which comes straight from Kremlin troll factories. Ha!


Of course it was interesting. But it didn`t change my attitude in any way. I can perfectly understand their disillusionment. If I was Ukrainian, I would write the same things. Ha!

says the guy who's a sworn enemy of both....

Alright guys, I get it.

Russians come, and stage entire virtual town halls on Ukrainian websites - for the amusement of the occasional Western reader.

Ukrainians, meanwhile, abhor their own newspapers, and never post comments there out of principle - preferring instead to write posts in the Christian Science Monitor and San Francisco Chronicle.

Thank God for Russians, creating some semblance of civic society discussions in the Ukrainian press, because otherwise there would be a vacuum.

Correct?

Never mind, we will give them time....... :):):)


No, liar, they do it for Ukrainians primarily - so that an average Ukrainian gets an impression that all is lost and the only remaining option is to surrender to Russia.

And you are doing your best to evoke such an impression in Poles and Polesses here, too. That is why you are imperial Russian scum and as such I have to repeat our traditional slogan:

DFY and your stalinist grandpa who "liberated" Poland, too!!!! HA!!!!

They do on newspaper BTL fields. Often pretending to discuss among themselves. They put huge resources in yet certain things are a dead giveaway.

Though I'm sure you know all that.


Western readers, from Poland or elsewhere, don't look at Ukrainian comments fields. You did however translate some. Their domestic market is the thing, that and trying to influence opinion in Ukraine.

It doesn't work.

Time for what? That view is correct. PF is the best confirmation, that Poland is precisely not helping Ukraine out of some sense of altruism. Even people like you and Paulina, argue why Poland should aid Ukraine primarily from a pragmatist point of view.

Ukrainians are not stupid, so I think their read on Polish intentions is pretty spot-on.


How does this work, in your imagination?

I am a Ukrainian, I go to a website to read some news. I read that Poland is dumping my grain on the ground, and guys are walking around with posters that read "Koniec gosciny - niewdzieczne skurwysyn". I decide to go to the comments section, to see what my fellow countrymen think about it. I open the comments, and horror of horrors - everybody is angry at Poland's actions. This makes me very depressed, and I feel that I don't support my country's continued efforts to resist Russian occupation any longer.

Is that how?

When will the two of you be able to take some responsibility for your actions? Always Putin soiling your underwear.

No, some farmers are.

Most exports are getting though at various places, despite the desperate efforts of r*SSia.

If you cared one jot about Ukrainian grain, your orcs shouldn't have stolen so much or blocked other channels.

I don't.

Instead, I'm highly amused at how Poland and Ukraine managed to f*ck up their relations this badly within just two years. Especially when I remember how great they were at the beginning.

Not even the most optimistic Russian propagandist could have predicted it. What's even better, is that Pawian can't blame PiS anymore.

In lie of the Polish government's action. Polish government by letting oligarchy from the Ukrianie and interactional capital take advantage of the Polish farming sector ( EU as well) is not acting in the best interest of Poland and Polish citizens which is its primary duty.

On the same note Ukrainian government which is acting on behave oligarchy and international capital trying to use political means and a war as an excuse to take over and dominate the EU agricultural market is not acting in the best interest of the Ukrianie.

Yes, we include both pragmatic and sentimental approach into our support for Ukraine. Is it forbidden? :):)


Yes, they know we support them for sentimental-pragmatic reasons. HA!!! What is wrong with it?


Exactly. Coz then a common reasonable Ukrainian loses all hope knowing that such comments will exacerbate Poles even more and the conflict will escalate and the only way is to join Russia which promises to receive Ukraine with open arms, unlike ungrateful Poland and Europe.

Yes, surveys would be much better. Especially taking into consideration all those troll farms and informatorom war on the internet.


I don't have the time to read all the comments right now, but judging by that first page that I've read - Ukrainians are angry, because of the situation with grain at the border. And their anger is understandable. That doesn't make them "anti-Polish".


Not really. In my case - not primarily.

lol

*information

No, it isn't! They should blame their president arrogant Z./
I don't think much of Kolodziejczak but he put it in nicely when he said that Z should worry about the wart in Ukrianinen, not about oligarchy and how much Ukrinaie gets from oligarchy getting rich on Polish farmer's loss, and if he needs popple for his army he should send buses To shopping malls top pick up Ukrainian men of fighting age.

No sh*t.


Strangely, their anger is making them write many anti-Polish things.

I love your argument, that Ukraine is angry, but not anti-Polish. It's completely meaningless.

A post does not have to say "Poles are greedy colonizers, just like the Russians. Butchers and exploiters." - to be anti-Polish.

It's enough for a post to say, "Poland can go f*ck itself.", or even "Poles are behaving extremely irrationally" - for it to be anti-Polish. By the criteria of any university, journalist outfit, or surveying organization.

You just made up your own criteria on what is anti-Polish, by defining it as near racial hate.

Yes, you are refraining yourself from admitting that some of those farmers are working on behalf of Putin and Russia. It is a common fact that one of the protest organisers is a local activist from pro Russian antiUkrainian Konfederacja.

Check this Soviet flag on this "Polish" farmer`s tractor.

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We, Poles and Polesses, decide what is anti Polish in Ukrainian comments. Are you trying to suggest you know better??? hahahaha


Exactly!!!

Everybody is for supporting all kinds of crap until they have to pull out a buck out of their own wallet.

Pulling a buck or a thousand out of someone else's wallet is a lot easier. Additional benefit: A lifetime admission to the High Moral Ground.

See Poles on PF.

So, according to a RuSSian any criticism is being "anti-some-nationality"? No wonder RuSSians see "Russophobia" everywhere lol


Nope, that's what you're doing o_O


WTF... Is this for real??

No, no.

Quietly wishing Poles get invaded by Russia, or that they experience on themselves starvation - is totally not anti-anything.

Accusing somebody of thinking only of themselves, and calling them backstabbers - that also doesn't necessarily mean that you don't like them.

Only when the other side begins to come up with funny words like slave, orc, subhuman, etc can one confidently state that we are dealing with some kinda anti-something.

Bobkovich, please pay attention to what I quote :) - I meant comments like this:

...a mental disorder aka RDS.
One of the symptoms: Auschwitz is forgivable. Katyn is not. Ever...

Who says that?


It is not.


They haven't. These are just strikes, probably due to r*SSian spookery in the farmers' union.

Yes, I couldn`t believe my eyes, either. :):):) It is clear some of those "farmers" are like Putin`s agents.

Really?? Lies again. Check this article which says that Ukrainians consider the Polish culture and way of thinking as the closest of all to their own ones.

zaborona.com/ukrayinczi-vvazhayut-polyakiv-najblyzhchym-po-duhu-narodom/

Ukrainians rated Polish culture as the most interesting among European cultures. And 72% of respondents consider Poles to be culturally closest to Ukrainian people. This is evidenced by the results of a public opinion survey conducted by the Myeroshevsky Dialogue Center and the Ukrainian agency Info Sapiens.

Only an idiot could answer that Poland is the closest country to Ukraine culturally. Even Muslim Azerbaijan, is closer to Ukraine culturally than Poland. Forget about places like Belarus and Russia.

Also, only an idiot could rate Polish culture as the most interesting in Europe - no disrespect. But seriously, there are countries like Italy and France in Europe...

Finally, I said Ukrainians do not see Poles as "strategic allies". This has nothing to do with culture. Then, Brazil would be the closest ally of Portugal.