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Fresh, wholesome country lass in Poland - getting married and going back to the US


rozumiemnic 8 | 3,827
8 Jun 2013 #91
Was rather than has been, i would say
a.k.
8 Jun 2013 #92
the bloodied bedsheet has traditonally been the symbol of marital consummation.

Really? It's the first time I hear that anyone in the past would flaunt a dirty sheet in front of neighbours' faces... Were there any other extraordinary traditions my grandparents forgot to pass on me? :)
Ironside 49 | 10,616
8 Jun 2013 #93
It looks more like a symptom of a mental problem, not a cause of it.

In this way we can argue about everything. The point there is a mental problem connected with promiscuity and it not the only one.

And why would loss of virginity affect women so much?

Why you are obsessed with virginity. I'm talking about promiscuity.

And pray why not?

I don't know. Probably it has something to do with differences between sexes.

Again, why exactly? Women use men sexually too, you know.

Why? Read up! I know but it may work for some women. For majority it doesn't work that well, does it?

Do you think men are too dense to realise that they are basically somebody's throwaway toy? A dildo on legs, to put it bluntly?

Somebody has been burnt, sorry.

Or do you really live in a world were women have no sexuality to speak of and their only role is to lie back and think of England?

Well the life is not TV program. There is not clear cut, I think that being proud of promiscuity and trying to emulate some men is harmful for women in general -thats all.

To my question whether you think promiscuous men never or rarely become seedy sleazebags (which to me is also a description of their mental makeup), you answered that men are not affected mentally. Your answer shows you did not even try to understand my question.

No I didn't. You are another one that blames others for your shortcomings. You didn't make yourself clear and I do not posses ability to read your mind.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
8 Jun 2013 #94
Why you are obsessed with virginity.

I'm not, but the subject at the time WAS virginity.

I know but it may work for some women. For majority it doesn't work that well, does it?

Are you a woman to know all about that?

Somebody has been burnt, sorry.

???

There is not clear cut, I think that being proud of promiscuity and trying to emulate some men is harmful for women in general -thats all.

There is a vast difference between being a normal, red-blooded female, and being a promiscuous slut. I don't think you are capable of seeing that difference. The loss is yours.

You didn't make yourself clear and I do not posses ability to read your mind.

It's quite easy to ask questions if in doubt - I do that quite often.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
8 Jun 2013 #95
The Greeks were once especially known for this. Dunno if they still are. If interested, try tracking it down on the net, Google or what have you.
Englishman 2 | 278
8 Jun 2013 #96
Why would a man want his wife to be a virgin on their wedding night, anyway?

I ask for three reasons. First, would he not want to have sex with her himself before marriage? They might discover that they like different things sexually or were otherwise incompatible. And if not, they could enjoy closeness and intimacy together while getting to know one another better, then while waiting for their wedding day. Sex should be an enjoyable way for two people wh love each other to bond. Why deprive yourself and the person you love of that?

Second, those who favour physical virginity - an intact hymen - seem to want women to bleed on their wedding nights. That sounds like it could be a painful and somewhat scary experience for an inexperienced young woman. What kind of a man would want his wife's first experience of married life to be like that?

Third, wouldn't a man want to share his life with a woman who has a healthy sex drive, as opposed to someone who has suppressed her sexuality because she thinks there's something 'dirty' about it? OK, I know there are many ways that a man can please a woman, or a woman can please herself, that don't involve losing her physical virginity, and from a male perspective these are more enjoyable than straightforward vaginal sex, but a man would surely prefer his wife to enjoy that aspect of sexuality at least occasionally.

I'm not suggesting that I believe in casual sex or promiscuity - I think sex should be for people in established relationships who love one another. But think this standard should be applied equally to men and women, and I think it's crazy that a man should expect physical virginity from an adult woman. It could easily lead to unhappiness for both of them.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
8 Jun 2013 #97
I'm not suggesting that I believe in casual sex or promiscuity - I think sex should be for people in established relationships who love one another. But think this standard should be applied equally to men and women, and I think it's crazy that a man should expect physical virginity from an adult woman. It could easily lead to unhappiness for both of them.

Exactly. 100 % this.
Sparks11 - | 335
8 Jun 2013 #98
I'm not suggesting that I believe in casual sex or promiscuity - I think sex should be for people in established relationships who love one another. But think this standard should be applied equally to men and women, and I think it's crazy that a man should expect physical virginity from an adult woman. It could easily lead to unhappiness for both of them.

I believe that one should do with one's body as, um, one sees fit. If someone likes casual sex (male or female) who's ANYONE to tell them that it's not the way. Of course, be aware of possible diseases and what not, but live your life in a way you feel comfortable with. People with hymen-fascinations are far more perverted and mixed up than anyone who has sex with whoever they see fit and willing.
Englishman 2 | 278
8 Jun 2013 #99
@ Sparks11, I think one of the things that makes a relationship work is shared values. Myself, I prefer sex to be within an established relationship. But love is an amazing and bizarre thing so I can imagine falling for someone who was a virgin, or who'd had recreational sex many times without being in a relationship. However, I can understand that there are people who are more driven by their morality or religion than I am, who might insist for example on marrying someone who hadn't had sex before - it's just that I'd expect they would also be virgins themselves. Otherwise it's the height of hypocrisy. That's why I can't have anything other than contempt for the man described by Polonius.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
8 Jun 2013 #100
We know nothing of the 50-year-old Polonian other than what he himself volunteered, nor do I care to find out. For all we know he may also be a virgin, but frankly this thread seems to be beating a dead horse to death.
a.k.
8 Jun 2013 #101
In this way we can argue about everything. The point there is a mental problem connected with promiscuity and it not the only one.

Ok, let's put it aside.
When you ask anybody about the sex addiction most people would say they associate this condition more with men than women. Even the link you gave has an alternative name listed: "donjuanism". That would mean your claim about men being less prone to harmful effects of promiscuity is completely false.

Now the point is that while women have sexual needs, not many women would like to sleep around with many men. These are two different things.

Secondly, since marriage of teens is passe in XXI century - to put it mildly, how do you think a woman should fulfil her needs? Or maybe she should keep her "wianek" until her late 20s? Now, that's something which can bring about a mental condition! Depression, neurosis... Nature didn't create us to deny our sexuality for so long! However the current lifestyle expects us to finish our education, get a job, proper savings and be emotionally mature when we go down the aisle. I'd like especially Polonius to comment on this rift.

Second, those who favour physical virginity - an intact hymen - seem to want women to bleed on their wedding nights. That sounds like it could be a painful and somewhat scary experience for an inexperienced young woman. What kind of a man would want his wife's first experience of married life to be like that?

a sadist.
Ironside 49 | 10,616
8 Jun 2013 #102
Are you a woman to know all about that?

What kind of question is that?
So you have to be something to talk about it?

I'm not, but the subject at the time WAS virginity.

Are you virgin then?

There is a vast difference between being a normal, red-blooded female, and being a promiscuous slut. I don't think you are capable of seeing that difference.

I see that you can read my mind too.

It's quite easy to ask questions if in doubt

What doubt? I misunderstand you due to your unclear statement. Get it over.

Second, those who favour physical virginity - an intact hymen - seem to want women to bleed on their wedding nights. That sounds like it could be a painful and somewhat scary experience for an inexperienced young woman. What kind of a man would want his wife's first experience of married life to be like that?

Well you are making this up as you go. I'm sure you are kidding right?Cause you believe in a magic number three.
I can thing about one reason a man want to take special place in a woman life and be her first.
mochadot18 15 | 241
8 Jun 2013 #103
Ironside: In this way we can argue about everything.

Thats the point.......

Nature didn't create us to deny our sexuality for so long!

But I still consider saving yourself MUCH MUCH better than going out and getting pregnant at 16 and trying to be mtv pregnant and 16. No need to fulfill your sexual desires at this age..
a.k.
8 Jun 2013 #104
I can think about one reason a man wants to take special place in a woman's life and be her first.

What would that be?

But I still consider saving yourself MUCH MUCH better than going out and getting pregnant at 16 and trying to be mtv pregnant and 16. No need to fulfill your sexual desires at this age..

Yes, of course. Do I say otherwise? As for me I think a person should be adult when beginning his or her sexual life.
mochadot18 15 | 241
8 Jun 2013 #105
As for me I think a person should be adult when beginning his or her sexual life.

Completely agree and mature enough, to talk about protection, make sure it is used. Also make sure they are ready for any accidents that might happen.
Ironside 49 | 10,616
8 Jun 2013 #106
When you ask anybody about the sex addiction most people would say they associate this condition more with men than women. Even the link you gave has an alternative name listed: "donjuanism". That would mean your claim about men being less prone to harmful effects of promiscuity is completely false.

Not necessarily, men can be affected after having many more casual partners than woman, that would still mean that I'm right.

Secondly, since marriage of teens is passe in XXI century - to put it mildly, how do you think a woman should fulfil her needs? Or maybe she should keep her "wianek" until her late 20s?

Once again I do not debate virginity here but since we are on it I don't think that is right that 14 years old or 15 years old do start their sex life. So you are pushing your argument here talking about late 20'. Anyway the best age for women to marry is between 20 and 26.

The problem is promiscuity for both sexes and specially young women starting their sex life very young.
Also I casual; attitude to sex and seeing sex as a commodity in the modern society encourage all kinds of harmful behavior and self-destructive patterns in peoples life.

However the current lifestyle expects us to finish our education, get a job, proper savings

That is pattern for a lower middle class.

be emotionally mature when we go down the aisle

What emotionally mature?Those are very vague expectations. If a woman 20 - 26 is not mature enough to start family and a man 26- 32 is not mature enough there is something wrong with them.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
8 Jun 2013 #107
So you have to be something to talk about it?

Well, it sure helps. You don't need to be that someone as long as you understand that you will never truly know what they know and feel. You can become a miner, the president of Poland, or an astronaut, but you will never become a woman, so a little less self-assurance on this particular subject would be in order.

Are you virgin then?

I was born one, and so were you. We have equal footing here ;-)

I can thing about one reason a man want to take special place in a woman life and be her first.

Can you enlighten us? Because all the reasons that come to my mind are rather small-minded and unpleasant.
Harry
8 Jun 2013 #108
Has anybody ever thought that virgins are a pain in the c0ck?

BTW, do such women really bleed? I may have missed something.
mochadot18 15 | 241
8 Jun 2013 #109
What emotionally mature?Those are very vague expectations. If a woman 20 - 26 is not mature enough to start family and a man 26- 32 is not mature enough there is something wrong with them.

Well emotionally, that could mean anything from, not being fixated on an ex boyfriend/girlfriend. Mentally stable lol. Many women still don't get married until after they are 26, just because they aren't ready nothing wrong with them I don't think. Also not being mature enough to start a family could also be because of many medical reasons, doesn't necessarily mean that there's something wrong with all those that don't get married within those ages. But yes being emotionally mature can mean many different things.

Has anybody ever thought that virgins are a pain in the c0ck?

How so harry???
Ironside 49 | 10,616
8 Jun 2013 #110
I was born one, and so were you. We have equal footing here ;-)

According to you, one shouldn't talk about virginity not being a virgin or about women not being a women and so on......that is logic i disagree with but still...

Can you enlighten us? Because all the reasons that come to my mind are rather small-minded and unpleasant.

Very simple and basic human need to take a special place in a woman heart.

You don't need to be that someone as long as you understand that you will never truly know what they know and feel.

You make it sound as some king of impossible task. In fact what you need to understand women psyche is some life experience, some interaction with women in their different life roles and intelligence and some empathy. No that impossible to come by.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
8 Jun 2013 #111
Very simple and basic human need to take a special place in a woman heart.

If you meet a woman and she's not a virgin, but she's really great and she truly loves you, and you love her, that is not enough? Oh wait, you probably couldn't bring yourself to love someone who has been "used".

and some empathy. No that impossible to come by.

I haven't sensed the slightest empathy from you so far. You are full of preconceived notions and unyielding opinions. At least that's how you come across.
a.k.
8 Jun 2013 #112
That is pattern for a lower middle class.

What pattern is for upper middle class then? Graduate a university, get a dole, live off mum and pop? ;)

What emotionally mature?Those are very vague expectations. If a woman 20 - 26 is not mature enough to start family and a man 26- 32 is not mature enough there is something wrong with them.

I can ensure you that when I was 20-24 I wasn't mature enough for a marriage, that's certainly. I'm not sure if I am now.

People change at some stages of their lives and it's not up to them or their life experience. It's probably the changes in the brain that come with the age, we can't do anything about it.
mochadot18 15 | 241
8 Jun 2013 #113
I can ensure you that when I was 20-24

Yes I can also say being 19 about to turn 20 in 2 months I am NO WHERE NEAR ready for marriage, and I sure won't even consider it until I at least finish college witch by then I'll be at least 24. Does that mean something is wrong with me IRON????
pgtx 30 | 3,158
8 Jun 2013 #114
There is nothing wrong with you mocha, wait for it, the best is yet to come. Don't listen to those traditional masochists ;)
Ironside 49 | 10,616
9 Jun 2013 #115
If you meet a woman and she's not a virgin, but she's really great and she truly loves you, and you love her, that is not enough?

you are not listening.

at pattern is for upper middle class then? Graduate a university, get a dole, live off mum and pop? ;)

find appropriate husband/wife, man - take a place on a board of shareholders,woman - join foundation to run by her auntie to help less fortunate.

Does that mean something is wrong with me IRON????

You are 19 nothing wrong with you.

I haven't sensed the slightest empathy from you so far.

Because you are confused.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
9 Jun 2013 #116
Because you are confused.

Thank you for explaining it all to me, Uncle.

;->
Ironside 49 | 10,616
9 Jun 2013 #117
You can call me uncle Iron
Marynka11 4 | 675
9 Jun 2013 #118
I agree there's a good chance a 50-year-old Polonian bachelor would quite likely attract golddiggers.

lol, golddiggers. With 50 000 a year? That's hardly enough for 2 people to get by.

Why would a young self-respecting woman be interested some looser grandfather with unrealistic expectations?

They might discover that they like different things sexually or were otherwise incompatible.

A guy who want a a woman to be virgin does not grasp the idea that women have sexual needs themselves. For him a woman is a possession acquired in order to cook for him, clean his house and take care of his dick.
ShawnH 8 | 1,508
9 Jun 2013 #119
lol, golddiggers. With 50 000 a year? That's hardly enough for 2 people to get by.

It's not what you make, it's what you keep. The guy could be a millionaire, just spending enough to get by and wisely investing the rest. The guy with the flashy car and McMansion is probably up to his eyes in debt. You should read The Millionaire Next Door.
mochadot18 15 | 241
9 Jun 2013 #120
HAHA YEAH OK Shawn........ I highly doubt that, he def only makes $50,000 a year. Can't invest much of that as the cost of living is quite high and that is quite a low income. This guy is clearly not smart enough to know how to invest with what he thinks he knows about women, he doesn't know Sh.it. He prob spends whatever little is left over on sex dolls. LOL

But I will read that book, if its good.


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