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How do Polish men feel about gender equality?


pawian 176 | 14,723
13 Jan 2021 #661
all the Polish male doctors migrated to countries

Sources, please. If not, you lose that one.

I owe you one for that.

Supporting a losing argument of your buddy also costs a point.
Novichok 1 | 2,079
13 Jan 2021 #662
So what? Men may be deciding that being a doctor is not the way to prosperity. Especially, if they are planning to leave Poland.
Quoting:

U nas średnie wynagrodzenie lekarza specjalisty wynosi ...

In English:
In our country, the average salary of a specialist doctor amounts to approx. PLN 4,600 gross, excluding on-call duty - says Robert Krawczak, director of the Warsaw children's hospital. A similar rate applies at the Wielospecjalistyczny Hospital. dr. Ludwik Błażek in Inowrocław. A bit higher - PLN 4,800 - is in the Provincial Complex of Stanisław Rybicki in Skierniewice.

That 4800 zl is a cruel joke. No wonder men don't find it funny and want to be plummers.
Lenka 3 | 2,472
13 Jan 2021 #663
There are 20% more female doctors in 2019 than there were in 2012, and female doctors now make up 48% of the workforce. Both Scotland (53% female) and Northern Ireland (51%) have a greater proportion of female doctors in 2019 than England (48%) and Wales (46%).
Lenka 3 | 2,472
13 Jan 2021 #665
Just countering your silly 'dozen doctors'
johnny reb 28 | 5,066
13 Jan 2021 #666
Sources, please.

You have lost that game by not providing your sources on the vaccine, remember ?
You're up.

Both Scotland (53% female) and Northern Ireland (51%) have a greater proportion of female doctors in 2019 than England

I don't hear any males having a meltdown over gender equality over this.
I like the part where cute female doctors make you cough.
pawian 176 | 14,723
13 Jan 2021 #667
Men may be deciding that being a doctor is not the way to prosperity

Wrong! Men are too lazy and less intelligent than women to study medicine which is the hardest course of all.
Novichok 1 | 2,079
13 Jan 2021 #668
Just countering your silly 'dozen doctors'

I am sorry. I didn't know you were shadowing me. Next time I will ask if the person in front of me is a girl or a boy. Or I will ask you.

Other than that, do you have a point of your own?

Men are too lazy and less intelligent than women to study medicine which is the hardest course of all.

As I posted earlier, next time you need help and you don't care if you will live or die, ask for the meds, procedures, or machines developed by women. FYI, women were just as creative in this respect as were your African brothers.

BTW, keep in mind that women are endowed with more body parts worth kissing than the one you do - over and over again.
pawian 176 | 14,723
13 Jan 2021 #669
FYI, women were just as creative

Don`t use this argument coz it is manipulation. How could women develop machines if they were busy cooking, cleaning, caring for kids etc. ??? Now it slowly changing and liberated women make more and more scientific staff in laboratories etc.
Novichok 1 | 2,079
13 Jan 2021 #670
Name three that really matter.
pawian 176 | 14,723
13 Jan 2021 #671
No kidding. Are you going to group them according to importance? Why not? What is the most important one in your opinion? I think it is a cancer cure lab. Will you agree??? Now, what do you know about female scientists in cancer cure research??? Are there any?

Now, continuing our debate about inequalities, read an article about female scientists who run into obstacles unknown to their male counterparts. If it is happening in the UK, it means it is even worse in Poland.

nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00933-0

Women starting their first research labs tend to be paid lower salaries, have fewer staff and have access to less laboratory space than their male peers do, according to an analysis of UK scientists.
johnny reb 28 | 5,066
13 Jan 2021 #672
How long do you think it will be before Poland elects a woman for your president ?
Do you think it will be in your life time ?
.
Novichok 1 | 2,079
13 Jan 2021 #673
Now, continuing our debate about inequalities,

No, we will not continue until you support your claim.

liberated women make more and more scientific staff in laboratories

Are you going to group them according to importance

No, you will. Your claim, your list, your order of importance.

Women starting their first research labs tend to be paid lower salaries,

BS. Women can start their own labs, hire women, and pay them as they see fit.
Without that list, don't even bother. While at it, list the top three medical achievements from Africa.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,257
13 Jan 2021 #674
... before Poland elects a woman for your president

I think it's very likely - if there is a suitable candidate. In Poland the position of the President is much weaker than the one of the Prime Minister and we already have have had three female prime ministers since 1989.

The President of Poland is basically a guard of the chandelier in the Presidential Palace.

By the way, have you heard that US Ambassador to Poland, a nominee of Donald Trump, Georgette Mosbacher has just announced her resignation from the post?
Novichok 1 | 2,079
13 Jan 2021 #675
Margaret Thacher was a PM because she was like a man, not a woman - and, thus, "suitable". They didn't call her a soft pink pillow lady.
pawian 176 | 14,723
13 Jan 2021 #676
No, we will not continue until you support your claim.

hahaha like a kid.

Your claim, your list, your order of importance.

I mentioned cancer so all labs focused on finding a cure: genetics, biochemistry, molecular biology. Three. Are you satisfied? And I am checking the female share in them. It is usually around 50%, depending on who leads the lab - a male or a female.

Sorry, but your attempt to prove that females are unable to conduct serious research has just been blown.

While at it, list the top three medical achievements from Africa.

Nope. You want me to take the thread off topic! It is a trap! As usual, when rightists are cornered, they provoke the closing of the thread. Don`t even count on it.
johnny reb 28 | 5,066
13 Jan 2021 #677
Sources, please. If not, you lose that one.

You have lost that game by not providing your sources on the vaccine, remember ?

No, we will not continue until you support your claim.

Ut - oh, looks like I am not the only one who has caught on to your trolling tactics.
I think this thread should be closed as it has gone nowhere in the last week except for a lot of gender trolling.
Novichok 1 | 2,079
13 Jan 2021 #678
Are you satisfied?

No. Names, published papers, or patents.

You want me to take the thread off topic!

You can keep it on track if you quote African women.
pawian 176 | 14,723
13 Jan 2021 #679
I think this thread should be closed

That is a typical rightist approach - shut them down coz we are losing! hahaha

And stop lying again coz I supported all claims and answered all questions. Ha! It is you who feel cornered.

No. Names, published papers, or patents.

ha I thought you were talking about labs. OK, give me some time but there was one woman who greatly contributed to DNA research - only her male colleagues got the Nobel Prize. It was in 1960s.

BTW, let`s check Nobel Prizes in science: Here you are: 8 female winners in the 21 century.

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laureatki_Nagrody_Nobla

And there will be more and more of them.

Ha! Are you happy? Did I prove in a simple way that you were wrong? Yes, I did. Thank you for your attention.

African women.

Stop this nasty off-topic racism at last.
johnny reb 28 | 5,066
13 Jan 2021 #680
I supported all claims and answered all questions.

No you did not, go back and read where you could not come up with a credible source to confirm your opinion.
Post don't lie but you do.
You lost another one today.
That makes it 4-0 our favor.
Novichok 1 | 2,079
13 Jan 2021 #681
Ha! Are you happy?

Almost 5.8% happy, which is better than zero.
I didn't know that the Nobel Prize is racist. Not a single STEM prize was given to a black woman. Just bs like Peace and for planting trees. Not nice.
pawian 176 | 14,723
13 Jan 2021 #682
Almost 5.8% happy, which is better than zero.

You asked for 3, you got 8. Nice, isn`t it?

And I told you to stop those racist remarks about black women.
Paulina 10 | 1,770
13 Jan 2021 #683
Most men or even all are poisoned with this strange attitude.

Don't you exaggerate a bit? What makes you think that? I mean, there is a difference between countries like Afghanistan and Sweden, for example... Are you able to say why you had such attitude yourself? I guess boys don't just get born with it, right?

I had been,once, too, but fortunately I read a few wise books and decided to change my ways.

Wow, then your transformation was almost like the one of Saul of Tarsus into Paul the Apostle lol :)) What kind of books were those and what made you read them?

Also I bet often it just your perception not facts. Personal experience is sometimes misleading as you read into situation something that is not there...

Iron, for God's sake... Why do you automatically assume that something was my "perception not facts" and that I was reading into something that wasn't there? Do you do that to every woman? Judging by your previous comments about rapes on this forum I'm guessing that you do. You have no idea what happened to me and who did it, so, please, don't make such comments, if you don't know what it's all about. You do realise that bad things happen to women in this world, right? Or do you also live in some kind of La La Land?

@Strzelec35, I don't claim I'm hot lol You don't have to be hot to be viewed as a sexual object by certain... "men". You don't even have to be an adult... or even 15-years-old, as I'm sure you know best :/

@Rich, as for "risk taking", you're missing the fact that not only Polish doctors have been leaving Poland to work abroad, but also Polish nurses (17 000 have left until 2018) and judging by my observation 99.9% of nurses in Poland are women. I even made a thread about it on PF: "Shortage of doctors, nurses and caregivers in Poland". My aunt who's a nurse (the one who had a heart attack last year) worked for some time in Italy as a caregiver when she was younger. She didn't know any Italian and communicated with the family she worked for with some basic, broken English and hand gestures. Here's an article about Polish nurses leaving to work abroad and why they're leaving:

everethnews.pl/newsy/polska-pielegniarka-za-granica/

But that's not the only reason why there's a shortage of nurses in Poland. Women simply don't want to become nurses, because wages are low despite the fact that work is hard, too many patients for one nurse, bad working conditions, being treated by doctors like cleaning ladies despite being qualified medical personnel (judging by my observation majority of doctors at hospitals are men, so maybe hence the attitude...).

And Christopher Columbus, seriously? Do you have no shame? Women weren't even allowed to be sailors at that time, ffs.
I know more than one woman who left Poland alone with nobody awaiting her on the other side. Maybe you should get out more often and get to meet people. Btw, in the 90s it ended badly for many Polish women. Human trafficking was rife at that time. An American working as US ambassador in Austria at that time said that around 9000 Polish women were trafficked over there - they were promised work as waitresses, hotel staff, etc. but ended up in brothels and in the streets. And that was just Austria, so you can imagine how many lives were broken at that time...

@Johnny_reb, I remember that Hillary Clinton was trying to convince Jolanta Kwaśniewska (she was a First Lady, the wife of president Aleksander Kwaśniewski) to run for presidency in Poland due to her huge popularity in the nation, but she didn't want to. Ziemowit explained the rest.

In what way? Meddling into Society works is not a good things. Especially if we are talking bills, and laws.

I'm not sure what you're talking about - Piłsudski granted women in Poland the right to vote in 1918 - was that "meddling" according to you? By changing attitudes in the society I meant things like, for example - raising kids. Teaching girls that they can be doctors, not only nurses and receptionists, that they can be scientists, that they can set up their own companies or work as CEOs of big companies, that they can be prime ministers and presidents, etc. And raising them in such a way that they are able to be competitive enough for such jobs. Teaching them to be more assertive and confident, because girls and later on, women, have a problem with that. Girls and women are raised to be nice and not cause trouble and then they have a problem with reacting to sexual harassment at work, for example. Women and girls have a lower self-esteem than men and boys not only in the looks department, but in general. They have a problem with asking for a raise at work, for example. I could go on and on like this. I would have a few words about raising boys too - teaching them to be more empathic and how to deal with their emotions, agression in better ways, etc. But that's all I have time for now.
Novichok 1 | 2,079
14 Jan 2021 #684
there is a difference between countries like Afghanistan and Sweden,

For women, Afghanistan is safer than Sweden.

said that around 9000 Polish women were trafficked over there

Poor babies didn't have a return ticket or 100 bucks for a bus fare.

Please don't do that. I mean take me for an idiot.

That passive phrase "were trafficked" is just another feminazi attempt to remove any and all responsibility from women for their own actions. "Were trafficked" my rear end. They were "trafficked" because they allowed the pimps to traffic them. How far is Vienna from Krakow? You probably can hitchhike this distance in less than a day.
Ironside 50 | 10,919
14 Jan 2021 #685
Teaching girls t

And raising them

assertive and confiden

It parents job and nothing stop them from doing just that. There no laws that stand in the way of them doing so. There no laws that stops women from doing all kind of jobs if that your worry.

I seemly don't understand what that bitching is all about. It is not about the real live problems isn't?
Is not like the domestics chores need be sorted out by the law. If you can't agree and work out with your man some kind of arrangements, or endure just stay single. Is not like women are prefect, men need to put up with a lot of crap too.

Like this yapping that goes on page after page is all nonsense.
I just don't get what all that bitching is about and Rich just contributes to it.

that something was my "perception not fact

Some thing are something things aren't. Besides you are not talking about your personal experience you make generalization and remarks that you say are based on your experience. So what exactly have you experienced? Be specific so we can address the issue.

Making some general remakes that sound generic and add oh that based on my experience is not enough. You know , because as you have said I know nothing about you and your experiences.

I can judge you on the merits of your words.

Women and girls have a lower self-esteem than men and boysf

Sure but that is a natural difference between men and women. That the way people were born. that is biology. Are you gonna accuse biology of being sexist?
johnny reb 28 | 5,066
14 Jan 2021 #686
I guess boys don't just get born with it, right?

Actually it is the girls that are born without one.
That's why they call it, "penis envy".
Paulina 10 | 1,770
14 Jan 2021 #687
For women, Afghanistan is safer than Sweden.

Rich, you are simply disgusting. You've honestly made me sick right now. Do you know that Afghanistan is the only country in the world where there are more suicides committed by women and girls than by men and boys? According to Human Rights Watch 85% of Afghan women is experiencing physical and psychological abuse and are being forced to marry (including girls as young as 12, for example). There's also a problem with honor killings:

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prawa_kobiet_w_Afganistanie

And you clearly don't know how human trafficking looks like and how it works. When you're raped by the traffickers, your passport is taken away from you and you're locked up by armed men in a brothel than what do you do? If they show you pictures of your family back in Poland and tell you they will kill them if you ran away or refuse to do what you're told, then what do you do when you're a 17-year-old girl, for example? I know of one Polish woman (who was that 17-year-old girl) who cut her body, her arms, legs, belly in order not so be sent to "the room".

So what exactly have you experienced?

That's too private for this f*cked up forum.

Iron, how on Earth is women's lower self-esteem connected to biology and "a natural difference between men and women"?? Ręce opadają...

It parents job

Exactly. That's why I added social attitudes to "laws and opportunities". Because it isn't enough to change laws, people's mindset have to change too, but, as I wrote, it takes time.
Novichok 1 | 2,079
14 Jan 2021 #688
Rich, you are simply disgusting. You've honestly made me sick right now.

Poor, dear Pailina, so you thought you can win this one with me? You see, I plan ahead before I post, and had this one in reserve. Hopefully, it will make you as sick as it made me. The cited events took place in the US and involved Biden voters.

Here is an excerpt from my book. It includes direct quotes from two reputable newspapers in bold. Italics are mine.

Now, the sickening part from Star Tribune:

The brutal rape of a 9-month-old girl in Hastings has left even police officers, emergency room doctors and courthouse workers outraged. The baby needed extensive surgery to repair her badly torn body after the April 24 attack but is now at home with her parents.

It can't get any worse than that, right? Yes, it can. From the Chicago Sun-Times:

Christopher M. Bour, 40, pleaded guilty in January to paying Natisha Hillard $500 to have sex with a 4-month-old girl, an arrangement that lasted until the child was 18 months old.

Hillard has admitted to being in the room with Bour and the baby on all but the last meeting when he paid her extra to be alone with the baby.


In Time to Kill, the defense lawyer asked the jurors to close their eyes and imagine that the raped girl was white, so I am going to ask you the same: stop reading, close your eyes and imagine that the rape victim is a 4-month-old infant.

If you ever heard a baby cry because she was hungry or scared, try to imagine now how that 4-month-old child reacted to being raped. Finally, imagine that you are the mother and that you are in the same room watching TV while patiently waiting for the piece of garbage to ejaculate and you get paid.


Those 12-year-old girls in Afghanistan that are forced to marry are lucky. Some kids are forced to marry here when they are 4-month-old.

Now, back to washing dishes and vacuuming...
Paulina 10 | 1,770
14 Jan 2021 #689
Pailina, so you thought you can win this one with me? You see, I plan ahead before I post, and had this one in reserve.

I didn't want to "win" anything, that is not why I am here on this forum. I guess you can't understand that, because you're not normal. I was sincerely disgusted by you and I still am. So now you're using sexually abused infants and at the same time you're downplaying what's happening to girls in Afghanistan to "win" on an internet forum? How f*cked up can you get? Do you have no limits, no boundaries whatsoever?

And your planning is very poor then. Infants and kids are sexually abused all over the world, including in Afghanistan, so I'm not sure what's that supposed to prove according to your twisted mind.

Those 12-year-old girls in Afghanistan that are forced to marry are lucky. Some kids are forced to marry here when they are 4-month-old.

They are in no way "lucky", ffs. And infants aren't forced to marry anywhere. As I wrote, such abuse happens everywhere and it's not part of any culture or legalised in any way. However, forcing young girls to marry old farts is part of culture in Afghanistan and that's why those "lucky" girls kill themselves - that's the reason for the greater number of suicides among women and girls over there, in case you wondered (although I doubt you did).

good.

I'm not surprised now that you and Rich got along so well.
pawian 176 | 14,723
14 Jan 2021 #690
What makes you think that?

Coz I know males. Besides, I read it in my books. :):)

why you had such attitude yourself?

Coz I am a male?? :):)

transformation was almost like the one of Saul of Tarsus into Paul the Apostle lol

Yes, and I feel great now being liberated of all my previous prejudice, chauvinism, inhumane approach etc.

What kind of books were those

Different. I don`t remember the exact titles and vaguely remember To be a woman, Psychology of a Woman etc

what made you read them?

Because I have been fascinated with women all my life. :):):)

Cut down on your quotes please


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