20% of adult Poles are single and live with Mummy!

indeed

that's pretty extreme. If an old man requires that level of care, a nurse can be arranged.
Still, as distastfull as the image of my kid wiping my a$$ might be, I wish I knew why.. why an indifferent stranger doing it is more acceptable? I don't think all cultures think that way..

Anyway, a$$ wiping aside, I made my son's first 20 years of his life a joy to behold. And my plan is to switch roles and give it all back to him in reverse, as I slide all the way into my infancy, same way I will be taking care of my parents. That is a cycle of life.

;)

YES! when you're 13, it's your job to go to school and make sure you study and do your homework and don't f*ck off and don't get in trouble.


dude, are you high? this is hilarious. we're talking about personal responsibility, not having a contest who can come up with the most pathetic situation that's not your fault. Yes, if you have a family, you need to prepare for the event you get hit by a bus tomorrow and your family is provided for. That, my friend, in "my world" is called life insurance.


if you're too stupid to compete for the same job with illegals who barely speak the language, then I don't have an answer for you. You're a loser.


I've always voted Democrat. I pay taxes, and donate to many charities, including food banks. I hope you liked the green beans...


it is six figures, trust me. PF is all for entertainment. Would be better if it was for learning about new ideas, but there are few to be found here, instead just a bunch of half-wits making excuses for their sorry lives.

Again, what's your solution?

everyone has two hands, legs and a brain, make a use of it. life is a playground, prove yourself, don't be apologetic, pathetic dummy and take what you need.

If you have a drop of polish blood in you, you will understand.

that's cute. did you ask him about his plans?

I also play WoW, (i kinda suck at it), sail, golf, travel to Europe once a year, smoke cigarettes, drink wine, Fvck with people on NK, I visited my family in PL and Germany on a weekend once, it was hilarious, anyway I eat food daily, and go to long meetings and make money. Yea I'm a human.

And i moved out of my parent's house because I'm not a loser.

oh yes. I'm helping him make his dreams come true.

I think you're so angry because you're jealous. Somebody else seem to have it easy, surrounded by loving family willing to help each other. Unacceptable!

I'm not angry. What made you think I was angry? In fact, I'm all happy for you, but I hope you realize that where your son's mindset is right now when he's 20 is not going to be the same a few decades down the road. He might have his own family by then to worry about, or live half way around the world. Or any other of literally dozens of scenarios that do not coincide with your expectations to be cared for.

Why are you falling into a false-choice mistake? Not everyone living independently when they're old is lonely and miserable, and not everyone "surrounded by family" is happy or feels appreciated.

I hope it's not news to you, but your kid is not always going to be there for you and I'm just pointing out the selfishness of expecting he'll live his life to make you comfortable and revolve his future around you.

I'm not saying I don't want to see my family when I'm old. I'm saying I hope I won't HAVE to rely on their help.

Yes, and it's the mother's responsibility to finance his or her education, right? (Oh wait, according to you it wasn't!) So who's responsibility is it?


No, you're not. You're talking about how you should be prepared for the unexpected. And that's it's supposedly your own fault when you simply don't have the resources to anticipate external factors, which are more often than not, completely out of our hands.


Yes, in your world you have enough money for a life insurance. In someone else's world it might not work that way, which of course renders your whole argument useless.


It has nothing to do with competition, but with the simple fact that they're willing to work for next to nothing. If I really have to explain this to you, then you really are more of an airhead than I already thought you were.


You don't sound like a Democrat. In fact, you don't even sound like a woman.


It's not, trust me.


I'm not the half-wit who's making excuses.


I've mentioned it twice now. Employers could offer people who want to work internal courses in companies or factories. Not only will they be cheaper employees for a few years, they will also gain experience and know-how as they learn, which might benefit you, or benefit another employer, and benefit the local economy aswell. What do you propose? More illegals? More immigrants? More undercutting? More jobless people on benefits? As if that's a solution! Why don't you go and do something useful with your six figures? Oh wait, you're having a hard time, and we should all cry about the fact you have to pay taxes for all those ''slackers'' out there!

xD

dude it's my wife, she is in her office. she is hot too. you know I'm tired of this thread. it's effing stupid. I'm gonna play some wow instead.

laterz.

You're still sitting in an office when you earn six figures a year? (You mean a million, right?) And you're actually wasting your precious time on PF? Oh boy, money definitely doesn't buy intelligence!

xD


Subtitle: I ran out of arguments.


Oh, and by the way, I don't need six figures to waste my time on PF or play WoW.

;P

ok, you're missing the point. A kid who is 13 is his parents' responsibility (even though he's old enough to be responsible himself for a few things). A kid who is 21 is not.

Are you 13?


missing the point again. that's fine. we can go over it again, slowly. you go first: give me an example of something specific where there is no way out, only whining and blaming others for. and don't give me that twin towers teary-eye crap.


if you don't have money to buy life insurance, you shouldn't get married or have kids.


what, too smart for your expectations for women?


Unless you're living in our attic (sorry, no basement), you have no way of knowing. I do.


it's out there. it's called internships. but you have to compete for those, something you have apparently trouble processing. nobody is going to call you and hunt you down to give you a job or training. you have to show you're worth the trouble.


I never said any of that. I did say, however, before, that you must be high. Apparently you are. You're seeing things...


seeing things again...


i rest my case about you seeing things.

now, about taxes, seriously - there is something I do believe in, which is a social safety net. For people who truly cannot help themselves. Like the disabled, for example. It's not for people who don't feel like doing anything. Are you disabled? Mentally perhaps? If not, and you're still hoping to get some of my tax money, you are a slacker.

I'm not, but you on the other hand, definitely are.


In other words: You now agree with my previous statement about responsibility, to which you disagreed just a few posts ago.


Exactly, but most kids start with highschool when they're thirteen right? (Over here they do!) So by the time they'll be twenty-one you're going to hold them personally responsible for not being able to afford higher education, just because their future had already been decided in their early teens?


No, are you?


Okay, you were thirteen, young, naive and did your best in school, and you had the highest grades of your class, but people told you that you had to become a construction worker, because they couldn't afford higher education for you. So okay. You're sad, but you're going for construction worker, because it's all you have. So now you're sixteen, and ready for an apprenticeship. You work hard, get your qualifications and your employer speaks highly of you. He offers you additional education. You decide to go for it, because there's no way in hell you can afford to pay for this yourself. There's a catch though, you will earn much less, and you will have to pay 50% for this education yourself. So you're not earning much and doing the best that you can. Working daytime, and following your education in the late evening hours. Half way your course, half the company gets fired, including you, because foreign Electricians who work on a temporary basis are much cheaper. So you didn't save much money, and you miss half of your qualifications. So it's back to minimum wage jobs for you. You start to work at a farm, surrounded by foreign workers, who are much cheaper than you, so you decide to work twice as long, and twice as hard, to convince your employer you're worth the money. Alas! Your employer doesn't see your efforts, or simply doesn't give a shít, and decides to fire you. Your already had trouble paying your rent, but now you're in deep sh¡t, because filing a request for benefit will take a few months. So you take any job you can, working a day here, working a day there, but work is getting scarcer and scarcer by the day, because more and more employers are happy with their labour-migrants. You don't want benefits, so you volunteer for the army. Here you learn to shoot, and to disable landmines. After a good long while you come back to civilian society, but of course your newly acquired skills are pretty useless. Now you're a few years older, and still haven't saved much money, because your pay wasn't *that* great. You start to think really hard about what to do, and you go back to job-hopping, which is now even harder because you're a few years older, and still don't have much qualifications. Rents increased in the meanwhile, but your salary decreased. Your insurances have gone up too. Groceries aswell. You're lucky now, because you manage to find a night-shift job which requires some knowledge in your original field of expertise, although your qualifications are still basic. It's hard work, and all the different shifts disrupt your sleep-pattern, but it pays more, so you keep going at it. Now you're finally starting to save up some money. (For the first time in your life!) But! The banks in America screw up, and cause an economic recession world-wide, to which your employer, after one and a half year of handing you temporary contracts, responds: ''I'm sorry, you're doing a great job, and I wish I could keep you, but I'm not going to prolong your contract this time.'' So you're back on the job market again, and politicians tell people to look for work elsewhere in Europe if they can't find it here. So you take a peek on the internet, and start looking into stuff, because you've totally had it in this country where people think it's time for you to move. You find out that you can't migrate to countries which look promising just yet, because they have no need for you unless you achieve higher qualifications, and in order to get those qualifications you're going to need a job. So you start thinking about working abroad a bit closer to home, but you watch the news and see that other countries which are surrounding yours aren't doing too great either. So you start to think about moving to Poland for a while, but you don't really speak the language very well, and the pay you'll be getting will be even less than you've been paid before. You think some more. Then you take a huge risk. You take all of your savings off of the bank, and invest it in a study which you wanted to do when you were in your early teens. The study is going well, but your money unfortunately doesn't replenish itself, so you still need a job. You're able to find a few days work every now and then, but that's about it. Bills keep coming in, but if you ever take that benefit, you will have to cancel your study and kiss your whole future goodbye. So you ditch your insurances, and everything you think you can miss. (Eventhough it's a risk!) And you keep calling companies and bureaus and hope someone will have some kind of job for you, because you're almost there! You know that if you manage to finish this study, you'll be able to apply for a student-loan, so your worries will be over. (Your financial ones, atleast!)

You tell me, how the hell is any of this your fault? You're trying!

:)


Oh, but if you had money to buy a life insurance at the time you decided to start with children, and the future really looked great for you, then how is it your fault when business goes bad and you lose everything you had? It happens, you know! But of course you're the all-knowing oracle who is able to foresee everything because she's so freaking clever and awesome!


No, something funny in your writing.


Just the fact you feel the need to convince people speaks volumes already. (Either way, you're a Scrooge, just like your username suggests.)


Over here it isn't.


I didn't know that. I'm retarded. I have no freaking clue about society or human interaction. I'm an alien. Serious. I was born on Pluto and raised by a pack of rabid wolves when I crashed down to earth in my escape-pod. Seriously.


No you're not, but of course your ''it's all about me'' state of mind is exactly what's causing all these problems we're addressing here. Everybody wants more, and something (Someone in this case.) has gotta give. Not you of course, because you have six figures, so you shouldn't raise the salaries of your employees, because they're not doing anything for you, so they don't deserve that. You're having such a hard time with your six figures, so there's no way you should ever hand out a permanent contract to anyone, because you never know what might happen tomorrow, right?


Like how you can see I'm high? Like how you imagine six figures on your annual paycheck? What kind of business do you run if I may ask you, because you seem to spend a lot of time typing here?


You're no stranger to this place on the internet, and you know what the people that you're obviously sympathising with are posting here about other people!


A society which agrees to outsource manufacturing, and a society which agrees to undercutting and mass-labour-migration, really shouldn't complain about the jobless people they're creating themselves.


No. Are you?


No, but perhaps you are?


I wouldn't even want your tax money if I was starving or freezing to death outside, so don't even worry about that. (Scrooge!) Again, you shouldn't point your finger at people who actually want to work, or even breathe in my direction when I become jobless because employers decide to hire illegals or foreigners because they're cheaper. So you can twist it all you want, but I'm not creating those problems, and in our current financial climate, it's pretty obvious that the banks won't lend me any money to start my own business either. (Atleast not now!)

So by all means, continue to preach and spread your ''it's all about me'' religion about your perfect world where everybody belongs to the master-race of übermensch who have no one else but themselves to thank for their successes and profit, because after all, you live alone on this planet, and of course it's too easy to earn six figures on an annual basis for everyone on PF, and please keep projecting your superiority-complex on other people who are now jobless because of the exact same attitude.

Some people have nine to ten figures on their private bank accounts, while others are starving. (Go figure!) Of course those Asian and Indian children who work in the mines don't bother people like me, just like people who point out - and rightly so - that minimum wage is too low in many countries don't bother people like me. Nope! I'm hard, I'm strong! I'm the biggest, smartest, hottest b¡tch on the planet. They don't make my profits. They don't generate my wealth. They don't produce the products I sell! Nope! I'm doing all of that while I'm sitting in my office, while all these lazy buggers should just continue to break their backs for me, and they should all listen to my success story, because it's all about me. (Scrooge!)

Yeah, good morning, and f*ck you too.

:)

Do you actually want to work?

Would you work minimum wage in Aalsameer pushing around flower carts?

How about McDonalds?

Would you be willing to go to the UK and work in a cannery for a year to save up money to go to University? How much does it cost? A buddy of mine (who just woke up as well) said that studies at Twente last year ran about €2k a year without any kind of "studiefinanciering".

If you really wanted to study, could you? Do you have other financial obligations preventing you from taking a minimum wage job and studying? Could you take a loan?

Do I look like I'm going to answer that question? No? Maybe you should try a different tune then!

;)

Don't knock McD's. Over here their store managers make like 50K a year.


With weapons and explosives training how about something with homeland security? Airport screening? Bomb squad?

You ever see Hurt Locker?

I don't think you're willing to work a minimum wage job.

I posted quite a few interesting little tidbits there, why wouldn't you follow one of those routes?


I'm not knocking anything. A job is a job. That one pays money, in the US they also help pay for university.

I mean, if you want to be independent, wouldn't that be a good start?

I think I've done that all my life, and I don't think I'm ashamed of that.

:)


Do you live here? Do you know which route I'll have to take from North Holland? Do you know about traffic jams before, in and around Amsterdam? Do you think someone from Aalsmeer will like an employee who will be late atleast two times a week?

Oh, and about McDonalds, maybe they take people our age in America, but I can assure you they won't take us in Holland. (Already tried that in my hometown and in Alkmaar!) They want cheap, cheaper, cheapest here at the moment.


We don't have Homeland security, and I've passed the age of 27 already, so they're not going to take me for any of such functions. You need to be medically and psychologically examined at the Marine base in Amsterdam, and you need to be younger than 27 at the time you apply for army and security jobs. Just keep your advice if you don't know how it works here, because it's less than useless. I can take care of myself, and I'm not complaining, trust me. Thank you.

Now let ''it's all about me'' reply whenever ''she'' wants, if she's not too busy playing WoW inbetween making her millions.

xD

Hey man, we're just trying to help. Don't put your sob story out there if you don't want feedback.

G'night

It was a simple suggestion. On a side note, are you open to moving to where the jobs are?

How about university, is it possible to get a loan like in the US or Germany? How about studying in Poland?

Yes, convex, it is ... but to get there AJ first has to finish his VWO, which will cost him another couple of months, as we've learned here.


Most people are, and I'm sure AJ is. The problem is finding a house to live in. Suppose even you get a job somewhere ... then you can go to your local housing association to apply for social housing ... the waiting list is about 5 years.


Not anymore, TZ, I'm afraid. Even if AJ would fit in the age category, we don't hire anymore. In fact, we will be laying off 15% of the entire force between now and 2015 (as thanks for all our services in war zones - sorry, that was a personal, spiteful remark). About a year ago we just finished laying off 10% (which was too much and we had to hire again :-S)


Over here you see people in their late teens, early twenties working in McD. And those frying the hamburgers don't even speak Dutch.


What you don't know, convex, is that if you have Amsterdam between your home and the place you have to go to, getting there by car is pretty much impossible. Yes, we have a lot of motorways, but Amsterdam by car during rush hour is as far away as the moon. In the time I lived in Deventer and had to travel to Amsterdam (100km) by car, it sometimes took me three hours. At the moment I use the train to go to my base, so I can tell you from my own experience as well that the trains run late by default. And besides, in Aalsmeer you'll probably have to start around 0400-0430 ... the trains don't run that early so a car is absolutely necessary.

And it is true, what he says: most "simple" (and even the not so simple) jobs are occupied by job migrants, so it's really not that easy to find something.

I'm afraid I can relate to what AJ is saying.

Flat share?

So the low end job market is completely gone in the Netherlands? Do you see a lot more people that are chronically unemployed? Surely some people aren't having a problem, is there a way out of it?

Theoretically possible ... but you'll have a waiting list as well. Especially in regions with a lot of migrant workers and/or students. Costs about 300 to 450 euros a month.


Pretty much ... my neighbour is a welder, got laid off a year ago and can't find a job anymore (he's 39). A lot of welders over here are Polish. On a side note, I've heard that most of the welders in Portsmouth (where they build British naval war ships) are Polish as well - they've been laying off British workers and replacing them for Polish. In the village where I live we have two big distribution centres, one for a major super market chain and one for a chain of stores for hollow-ware: mostly Polish personnel. We have several transport companies: Polish, Czech and Lithuanian drivers. A couple of non-brand car garages: Polish personnel. Honestly ... when my wife is here, she can speak Polish all the time. Even the owner of the local off-license is learning Polish, so she can talk with her customers. We had one hotel in the village ... it has been closed down now and filled with Polish migrant workers.

On a side note, how can 20% of adult Poles live at home when they're all working overseas? I wonder if they statistically live at home, but actually work abroad.

Why not? You apply for a job in the Netherlands or where ever. You are hired. You have to give your home address and you give them your address in Poland. Then you rent a bed on the local camp site (dekarekiet.com/karekiet-home.html or aandelinge.nl/fr_index.html?/comforthutten.html) in some trailer and you are good to go.

I am, but you can see Stu's comment about the waiting lists in Holland. (I just simply don't have the time to explain how everything works here!)


Yes, it is, but only for University. I don't think I'll be able to study in Poland. I mean, I'll need a place to stay there too, right? And I'm not going to get a student loan abroad, that's for sure!


I said thank you, but not necessary. It wasn't a sob-story either, it was a discussion between me and ''it's all about me''.


Thanks bro. I don't want drama and tears. I just want the simple truth to be out there because some people seriously seem to think my whole generation is lazy. Pisses me off a great deal. That's all. (And it's basically the same in other European countries, and I just really feel for all those young people who don't seem to exist anymore.)

:S

knowing that you was smuggling vodka at age 16/17 and living in Poland alone without parents at this age, means that probably you did not even graduated vocational school. That explains everything. You joined military not because you was so independend dude but they just simply drafted you as jobless and not educating. Wow, you really have something to be proud of!


So your education is "podstawowe". Wow, no wonder you've emigrated...


how didi you managed to get an university degree not having a graduatee certificate from Technikum (high school diploma)


here I must agree with you.


In Poland healthy elders rarely live with their children. But when they got ill it's considered as a duty of children to take care of them and sending them to some specilized homes of care (I don't know how do you call it in english) is considered as something terribly wrong and the elders feel often grudges that family not wish to take care of them personally.

it's a nursing home. I know, it can be a sad situation when the elderly feel abandoned and not wanted. but it doesn't have to be this way and nursing homes do not have to be sad places. I know of many that people actually enjoy because they have other people their age there, and they do trips and other activities, not to mention they have on-site medical care that their family cannot provide. and there are are retirement communities where people live quite independently in apartments etc. and have domestic and medical help available.

bottom line, it's not a rule that a nursing home equals misery

I still feel it's extremely and inexcusably selfish of anyone to expect that others will organize their life around them. It might be common (again, common, not mandatory) in countries like Japan, which is small, or Poland, where I hear people don't move around from place to place and, evidently, it's common for multiple generations to live together. But here people move from place to place multiple times in their lifetime, and they simply might not be anywhere near where their parents live.


it's a bad habit to draw conclusions based on faulty assumptions. there are high schools in the US.

convex is right, though. there's no point in ******** that low-end jobs are gone, or whatever. if your qualifications don't match the market, and there is no demand for what you can do, you have to adjust. you can't expect the whole world to adjust to you. that's why it's called a job MARKET, people, it's all about supply and demand.

I just got a flyer in my door about a "food taxi" service. You can call them, order anything from any local restaurant, and they'll go, pick it up for you, and deliver it to your home or office. That's brilliant. You don't need skills, or higher education, just a cell phone and a car, and you can make a few bucks. But that would require creativity and effort, while it's much easier to sit and complain.

My family didn't have money to pay for my college, I worked three jobs while I went to school. Everything is possible if you really want to do it.

how he managed to get a visa? He probably hide from us a fact that he have a family in the USA and they give him an inviation.


haha. EXACTLY. If those data were taken from adress infos then yes, many of them are ghosts who only have a "meldunek" in parent's house.

But I believe that's true that many people live with parents in their early 20s.


btw. how many hours a week your college courses took you? Let's say avaregely.


In Poland they would go bancrupt quickly...

what's medlunek?

as for my husband, I'm not going to write a book. the crux of his story is that his family had very limited means (not to mention rather low regard for education) and there was no way they'd pay for his college, so he had to work very hard and be very resourceful to pay for his school, which he did, and I'm very proud of him.

I checked my transcript. It varied, I had between 16 and 23 hours of classes per week.

the food taxi was just an example of doing something nobody else has thought about and people would actually pay money for. I don't know the realities in Poland but I'm sure if there is a niche to be explored, someone creative will find ways to make money. my point was, if what you can do is not in demand any more, find out what is in demand and how you can use it to your advantage.