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Stereotypes about Polish people being stupid?


rozumiemnic 8 | 3,717    
4 Nov 2018  #181
well IQ tests have been fairly discredited tbh, due to cultural bias. However, no one nation is 'stupid' , in fact it's a 'stupid' thread isn't it? Polish people are smart, that is why they cracked Enigma.

There used to be lots of jokes here in the UK about the 'stupid' Irish. Possibly that was because the single men that came over to build the roads and canals weren't that educated. Or it could be that the English are racist , who knows. Used to **** me off though. These days you don't hear Irish jokes, well, only from stupid people...:):)
mafketis 16 | 6,290    
4 Nov 2018  #182
well IQ tests have been fairly discredited tbh, due to cultural bias

No they haven't...

twitter.com/SteveStuWill/status/1057962279713435650

IQ test results are among the most robust findings in the social sciences and have survived decades of people trying to disprove them

There can be issues in applying the tests in some times and places, but in advanced western societies those problems don't exist.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,717    
4 Nov 2018  #183
'in advanced Western societies' well you said it, Maf.
IQ tests are very good at testing...how good someone is at IQ tests...:D
mafketis 16 | 6,290    
4 Nov 2018  #184
And are very good at predicting a lot of different types of life outcomes. In other words, how a good a person is at IQ tests is a good proxy for.... something very important, whatever you want to call it.

'in advanced Western societies

Yes, I take IQ results from some non-industrial societies with a grain of salt but the results for populations in advanced western societies the results are remarkably stable over time.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,327    
4 Nov 2018  #185
Never heard of the norwegian study? If that is true not only for norwegians we get all dumber...

Norwegian Study: IQ Scores Dropped for Decades

learningenglish.voanews.com/a/norwegian-study-iq-scores-dropped-for-decades/4445319.html
Spike31 1 | 378    
4 Nov 2018  #186
Well, if IQ results are not relevant to some of you, let's take a look at a more practical skills which require high intelligence and also a professional knowledge

Poland ranks high in competitive programming:

medium.com/@webgovpl/poland-has-the-world-s-best-programmers-and-here-s-proof-5ee0628b916e
delphiandomine 87 | 16,884    
4 Nov 2018  #187
Competitive programming? The article makes it clear that it's not actually that popular, and that they have little real world application.

I suspect the real reason for Poles ranking highly in them is that the cash rewards are good by Polish standards, but poor by Western standards.
Crow 146 | 7,594    
4 Nov 2018  #188
No Poles aren`t stupid. They rather aren`t informed. Level of information they receive depend on interests of western Europe, Vatican and USA.
Lyzko 18 | 5,303    
5 Nov 2018  #189
????
Sure we're talking about the same Poland or are you just being your typically provocative little self?
Rich Mazur 5 | 2,237    
5 Nov 2018  #190
Be happy it's not about Serbia.
Does Vatican operate a Chinese-style internet filter in Poland?
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,875    
6 Nov 2018  #191
Oh there's plenty of stupid nations... Take a look at sub-Saharan Africa where the average IQ is 70. They're not building any rockets or coming up with new cancer drugs or even putting indoor plumbing in their homes, are they? Or look at Afghanistan, where an Afghan commander responds to a US major 'well who are they supposed to ****, their grandmas?' when the major criticizes the Afghan soldiers for bringing teenage chai boys into a military base...

Looks like a pretty stupid nation to me...
youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=Ja5Q75hf6QI

18:49 - dudes standing in a mine field...
22:49 - their 'leader' - if this is the guys who's the smartest most capable out of the bunch, that says a lot...
52:42 - the part with the US major described above...

Honestly though we're even dumber for spending billions helping these people, but W Europeans are by far the dumbest for bringing loads of them into their own country and on top of that providing for them with everything
Dougpol1 26 | 2,152    
6 Nov 2018  #192
IQ tests are very good at testing...how good someone is at IQ tests.

Exactly. I can't solve jumbled up words in an English intermediate coursebook Roz. Does that necessarily make me appear even thicker to you than I am already? Don't think so - just a form of dyslexia, which everybody has. Automatically, if I was black, Dirk would knock another 10 points off my average.

And an average it is - how many times have we done the test under lab conditions? Me - 3. First I scored 108 as a youngster (of course that scarred me as all my pals scored higher!) Then 118, as a uni grad, then 126 or thereabouts when I was working at uni.

Therefore I am getting cleverer everyday. QED it's a load of old baloney and definitely more a question of employing the old brain cells on a regular basis and eating plenty of fish:)
mafketis 16 | 6,290    
6 Nov 2018  #193
First I scored 108 as a youngster (of course that scarred me as all my pals scored higher!) Then 118, as a uni grad, then 126

So about 118 (your high and low are within a standard deviation of that). Notice that you didn't go from 84 to 130 or 126 to 78.

How many who scored 90 in elementary school go on to university? It's not exact but it's real and based in biology. It's a little mutable but not tremendously so and a person whose base is around 90 is never going to get to 120.

Every attempt to 'debunk' the idea of IQ fails against the high correlation of IQ and life outcomes.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,717    
6 Nov 2018  #194
Take a look at sub-Saharan Africa where the average IQ is 70.

you simply cannot take in valid points that people make can you, without having to deafly rattle on about your little obsessions?
you just sound thick, tbh. (108 is slightly above average if you want to know) Anyone who bangs on about their IQ scores is a bit of an idiot, IMO. (and before you start on what mine might have been when it was tested, let's just say you wouldn't have got into my school..:)
mafketis 16 | 6,290    
6 Nov 2018  #195
you simply cannot take in valid points that people make can you, without having to deafly rattle on about your little obsessions?

That's the dirk problem in a nutshell, emotionally he's stuck at age 12 or so and just starts shooting out talking points he barely understands (or misunderstand) soiling any discussion that has the misfortune of attracting his interest.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,101    
6 Nov 2018  #196
emotionally he's stuck at age 12

If only at age 12 ...
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,717    
6 Nov 2018  #197
exactly. Look at the title of the thread...it's about Polish people, because it's a Polish forum. Spike showed us an interesting map, there was a comparison with Irish people in the UK, (diaspora, Catholic, single working men, possible racial bias)...then the value of IQ tests was touched upon, along with cultural bias...all reasonable discussion, right?

Then Dirky has to come along and start spouting off about the stupidity of Africans..having failed to grasp the point of the discussion completely, as well as show off about his (frankly average) IQ score..

I expect he has now gone to chop out some more lines.
delphiandomine 87 | 16,884    
6 Nov 2018  #198
In other words, how a good a person is at IQ tests

Is it not also about being 'trained' to do the tests? When I was fooling around with them, my score went from around 122-124 to around 130, but that seemed to be rather a result of getting used to the testing format rather than anything else. A quick look on Google shows that Asian countries are scoring highest, but wouldn't this be rather a consequence of their ridiculously heavy test-based schooling? It seems hard to believe that Cuba would only have 85 on average, when Cuban schools are well regarded and they do an absolutely fantastic job with literacy.
mafketis 16 | 6,290    
6 Nov 2018  #199
Is it not also about being 'trained' to do the tests?

To some degree and to some degree it's about.... predisposition to be trained to use them. Some people find puzzles and academic work to be intellectually stimulating and interesting and worthwhile, while others.... not so much.

But efforts to raise the scores of people who are average-ish in intelligence only work when those of above average intelligence are deprived of them. Giving everybody the same training, education etc doesn't eliminate differences in measured IQ...

Cuba would only have 85 on average, when Cuban schools are well regarded and they do an absolutely fantastic job with literacy

It's relatively easy to become literate in Spanish so that's not so impressive. But the communist starvation of the intellect (combined with the loss of human capital when he aligned with the soviets) all have their effects. There are also nutrition effects and under-nutrition due to communism. Taken altogether, I wouldn't be surprised if better nutrition would raise it a half deviation or so...
Rich Mazur 5 | 2,237    
6 Nov 2018  #200
To his credit, Dirk didn't get personal here. Only losers like some of you do.
Nobody needs to measure IQ. Just look how they live and what they created, invented, and discovered on their own. End of the story. The rest are post-fact rationalizations. Yeabatism at its most transparent.

Then Dirky has to come along and start spouting off about the stupidity of Africans..

He didn't call them "stupid". You just did. Not nice.

having failed to grasp the point of the discussion completely

You don't know what he grasped and how completely. You are pulling this out of your a**.

as well as show off about his (frankly average) IQ score..

You don't know his motivation, either.
Let me guess: you never tried to show how smart you are. As your post editing proves it, at least, you are consistent.
Spike31 1 | 378    
6 Nov 2018  #201
When I was fooling around with them, my score went from around 122-124 to around 130

Yes, those tests of yours were highly inaccurate, delpiandomine.
Judging by the quality of your posts and replies on this forum I wouldn't estimate your IQ would be anywhere near that threshold.
I bet you've got other qualities which compensate for that lack in brilliance.
Perhaps you are good looking?
delphiandomine 87 | 16,884    
6 Nov 2018  #202
Giving everybody the same training, education etc doesn't eliminate differences in measured IQ...

No, there's definitely some environmental factors there too. I had a lecturer at UAM in PoznaƄ who showed me this article - aft.org/sites/default/files/periodicals/TheEarlyCatastrophe.pdf - if you're not familiar with it, it's well worth a read as it shows how early the differences start.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,717    
6 Nov 2018  #203
Rich, what is the title of the thread? Why does Dirk have to turn everything into a (seemingly) narcotic fuelled rant about Sub Saharan Africans?

What is the name of the forum? who was the thread about?

Well done. Maybe you have similar obsessions, I don't know. There are other websites that might be more to your...tastes.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,101    
6 Nov 2018  #204
Maybe you have similar obsessions, I don't know.

Roz, dear, his obsesions are much worse than Dirk's!
mafketis 16 | 6,290    
6 Nov 2018  #205
No, there's definitely some environmental factors there too.

There's lots of factors, but the word gap is largely nonsense (and probably dates back to work by Basil Bernstein and his 'restricted' and 'elaborated' codes.

Almost no construct in social science history has had as many people try to debunk it as IQ and no one has really budged the basic theory which remains about the most robust psychological finding ever.
Rich Mazur 5 | 2,237    
6 Nov 2018  #206
The more religious the society, the dumber it appears and accomplishes even less. It's hard to think and create when one lives in fear of offending some imaginary god, as all of them are.

Such people, instead of buying a drug, pray. To our credit, we throw them in prison when a child dies because the parents are stupid that way.
Atch 16 | 2,641    
6 Nov 2018  #207
Well, to add my contribution, based on my experience as a teacher in disadvantaged settings and with children ages 3 -12 years, I can say that definitely there is a window of opportunity in the early years (meaning up to about the end of the sixth year of life) when the natural intelligence can be developed and built on. The right kind of teaching and learning environment, both at home and school at that stage will enable a child to reach their full IQ potential, but thereafter it's downhill all the way for some.

I've noticed that intellectual curiosity and a lively interest in the world is very much present in a lot of very young children from backgrounds of significant disadvantage but it disappears as they get older if it's not responded to in its early stage. When a young child asks questions or shows a desire to do something and gets no response or encouragement, they switch off and become passive. They just lose interest. And even children who are indeed going to be well below average intellectually, regardless of intervention (and you can spot them very quickly when you're an experienced teacher), even such children, frequently display talents or potential in other areas which could be developed, but is all too often sacrificed because neither their parents nor the mainsteam education system know how to do that effectively.

As far as language development goes, having taught literally hundreds of young children, I can say categorically that children from disadvantaged homes under the age of six, are about a year behind average in their language skills and vocabulary. We spend the first two or three years in the Irish education system trying to build their vocabulary and syntax skills as a basis for literacy. It's a constant struggle.
Rich Mazur 5 | 2,237    
6 Nov 2018  #208
When a young child asks questions or shows a desire to do something and gets no response or encouragement, they switch off and become passive.

The lucky ones are raised by the atheists who will talk on any subject and make every attempt to explain things without throwing in "It's God's will and plan". That line is an escape from the embarrassment of appearing ignorant.
mafketis 16 | 6,290    
6 Nov 2018  #209
when the natural intelligence can be developed and built on. The right kind of teaching and learning environment

It's my understanding that environment is indeed more important early in life but the older a person gets the more genetics take over.
Rich Mazur 5 | 2,237    
6 Nov 2018  #210
Rich, what is the title of the thread?

Perfect. That's all that was needed to be said to Dirk, instead of getting nasty and personal. He never does, unless attacked.
No, I am not Dirk and I never met him.



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