Are Poles mentally more Eastern European or Western European?

no? nothing at all? it's just a term people made up? we got western mentality according to you but no eastern? hmmm.

ironside wrote:


if you're referring to the disappearing middle class and the rich getting richer, yeah i can agree with that to some extent but it doesn't compare to communism, much more of an eastern european concept (not excluding of course other countries where communism still exists). also, capitalism and democracy, more of a western concept (in today's times), at least on paper, provides people with far more freedom than socialism.

be careful where you pass the blame because historically, "the west" has been doing it better than anyone else.

I think western european and eastern european diffrens between less than southern european and northern europan,but nobody talking about it.

how very true.

It is extremely funny to witness some of the nonsense written by people who are envious of Poland and its glorious history.

Poland is the country where the largest percent of the population was from the nobility (approximately 10-15 percent of the Polish population was nobility 200 years ago) and today approximately 30 percent of all Poles worldwide can trace their ancestry to the nobility (untitled as titled) in the agnatic line (from father to father)

Poland have ALWAYS been situated in CENTRAL EUROPE. The first Polish state rose from todays Central Poland (Gniezno). Poland has always been called a Central European state and even by the geographical and cultural definition they are central Europeans.

See all the references.

Because Poland was under the influence of the communist subhumans and rats for 50 years does not make it Eastern Europe when its culture is 1100 years old.

Poland is not a Catholic country and it do not use the Latin alphabet because of a coincident.

The Polish culture and cuisine is more influence by the West than the East.

Also Poles may be Slavic people but when you take a closer look at the Polish genes (Haplogroup Y-DNA) one realizes that is has a lot of Germanic and Celtic blood (About 35-40 percent).

Polish people are generally speaking a mix of many ethnic groups (Germans, Russians, Ruthenians (Ukrainians, Belarussians), Lithuanians, Jews, Armenians, Dutch, Scottish, French, Italian, Tatar, Vlach etc.) and that has formed todays Poland for the good and the bad.

About Polish cuisine:

"Polish cuisine (Polish: kuchnia polska) is a style of cooking and food preparation originating from Poland. It has evolved over the centuries due to historical circumstances. Polish national cuisine shares some similarities with other Central European [1] and Eastern European[2] traditions as well as French and Italian similarities.[3]"

with lots of tiny poxy little principalities to lord it over
''I am the Count. My land ranges from the trees 150 m over there to the river 50 m yonder, this is my wife the Countess and our dog.... Duke"

the only thing that the aristocracy could ever agree about
was the fact that there should never be a Polish royal family with a dynasty

so they did everything in their power to torpedo whichever poor bastard found himself in the unfortunate position of having
to rule the country and would much rather invite a foreigner to rule Poland rather than a Pole

The fact still remains the same, that most people if not all can trace their ancestry to an noble ancestors and that up to 30 percent of all Poles descend from nobles in the agnatic line (from father to son etc.) That has no rival on earth. This is also, among other factors, a huge contributor for the dominant patriotism among Poles and proud and freedom loving mentality. Some call it arrogance but why should we care?

Us Slavs, especially Poles, are descendants of ancient Sarmatians and Scythians (the Aryans) and this has been proved by our high percentage of Haplogroup R1a Y-DNA. The same DNA that was found in the graves of the first Indo-Europeans in Southern Russia (Kurgan theory)

You are wrong? Did you forget about the Piasts who ruled ancient Poland/territories of ancient Poland from 800 to 1370 only to be replaced by the Polonized (by culture and later orgin) Jagiellons from Lithuania (which at that time were the allies of Poland)?

Later came the Vasas who only ruled for a short time and were more Poles than Swedes and later an elected Bourbon King from French (who only ruled for a year or two as far as I remember). And then we had to Saxon Kings who had Polish ancestry as well.

England/Great Britain has never had a English Monarch but Monarch of German, Scottish, Welsh and French origin. The same with Spain and Portugal who always were ruled by royal families who came from France (Braganza and Bourbon) and earlier the Habsburgs from 1500-1700 in Spain. Even to this day the current Spanish King is a Bourbon (French).

The same can be said about every single European country. From Denmark (german), Norway (german), Luxembourg (german now french), Sweden (french) etc.

Poland has a lot to thank the Polish nobility for in terms of our heritage.

The Szlachta never had hierarchical terms of rank amongst themselves. Some magnates did call themselves karmazyni but there was never any official distinction in rank between one nobleman and another. There were no "counts" in Poland. Hythorn you are projecting your own British concepts on to Poland.

I would be advisable to learn some facts before writing such a nonsense. Some Polish aristocratic families owned land as big as 1/3 of UK. Check Lubomirski family or Radziwiłł, just from the top of my head.

but it didn't stop the magnates from subjugating lots of lesser szlachta (who became 'clients')

You do of course realise that szlachta is not translate to the English word nobility.


Something to back up this rather wild and unhealthy assertion would be interesting to read.


Precisely.


Don't confuse they magnat with the common or garden szlachty.


Largely Eastern. It is a variant of Russian cuisine, as established earlier in the thread.

DNA means nothing. You know, if someone's eating pierogi, drinking barszcz and has a glass of vodka and an Easter cake on the table and say they have a Scottish haplotype in their genome, people will still look at the table.

he speaks of today's realities Bzi - don't be so defensive

we're not discussing geography. read the title of the thread.

me thinks that if you compared the way Polish kings ruled their lands 1000 years ago compared to the way the Russians treated the Poles in the second half of the 20th century, the Russians would look like ***** cats.

man oh man, just another Polish history dork bound to be another Polish history dork infested thread.

If he speaks of today's realities - it makes even less sense I'm afraid. Nationalization of land and all that.

And besides: British landowning system wasn't THAT much different, with some extra-rich and many dirt poor nobility.


Missed "aristocratic families" in my post?

formally there was no aristocracy in Poland for the whole duration of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (szlachcic na zagrodzie równy wojewodzie - the ideal of equality between the nobles)

That's why I corrected you. Most szlachta were very far from being aristocratic.

So what?Every szlachcic and/or szlachciankahad an opportunity to become an aristocracy.And don't forget that the aristocracy in Poland originated from and depended on szlachta[/i.And I am sure you heard the saying [i]Szlachcic na zagrodzie równy wojewodzie.].

I think you mean aristocrat. Peasants everywhere (providing they weren't Eastern European-style serfs, as in PL) had the chance to become aristocrats in Western Europe. Some indeed did.


I know it, but it doesn't really fit with your argument that Poland has more in common with western rather than Eastern Europe.

Exactly.Some were richer some were poorer but they were all equal in terms of law. Magnats were only richer szlachta and they needed support of szlachta.It was a democracy Mości Panowie.

Probably the most important post in this entire thread..

i asked the same question.....crickets.

Huh?I never claimed that.I like Polish democracy of that time much better than the system in Western Europe.


Cham becoming aristocrat?Intersting things Waść opowiadasz.

I would ask you to go into detail about that statement. However, first I would need you explain how your statement is in any way whatsoever related to the topic of this thread. Can you explain that?


Do you think that it is a coincidence that the areas were there was serfdom more recently are today more likely to have an eastern mentality than the areas of Poland where it was practised longer ago?

No coincidence at all - it is part of the mindset of a region. Things move slow in the countryside and the peasant mentality endures.

The last time I looked at a political map of the world of major Western civilizations, America was indeed the West.

You should either look a bit more carefully or take the map back to the shop for a refund, if it shows America in Western Europe!

If everyone's special, no one's special. No sure why this is something be proud of or to bring up, considering:


which effectively turned the country into a power struggle between the royal/noble families instead of looking out for its common good.

Also, someone earlier in this thread proudly proclaimed Krakow to be "the Paris of Poland!"

LOL what? Why can't Krakow just be flippin Krakow? Why does it have to be compared as a second rate version of some other (incidentally, Western) city? Why can't Krakow, a city with a rich and unique history and culture spanning 17 centuries, be admired and respected for itself, instead of being lumped together with some other, COMPLETELY different city? I can assure you that someone who wants to visit Paris for a week will NOT go to Krakow instead and be like "meh. close enough." and vice versa. That's honestly so offensive to relegate Krakow to "Polish Paris," as if being "Krakow, Poland" isn't good enough.

let me here deal with some things.

When one speak about geographical difference its - ... eastern European or western European. First letter is small.

But, if one ask for the Eastern or Western in cultural sense, first letter in the words should be big.

Now, seams that author of this thread ask... in cultural sense. So, let me underline. Geographical west of Europe is only geographically western. West in them is only that what was influenced by Slavs (ie Sarmats) who are only real representatives of Western world. As for Poland, Poland (Poles) is core of the West.

i hope that is now everything clear. People should be careful and precise when initiate threads.

You know, you are right. For some reason it's instilled in our heads that you have to be like the west, because the west is better. But really it's arbitrary. A really smart post you made, I agree with it.


Crow, I see, you see Slavs as the occident instead of "the west" or a separate entity that can function and support itself. Poland is the core of Europe, this no doubt I agree with.


.
I feel this thread is set up with the idea that being eastern European is more backward and less civilized compared to western European. This is not what I believe to be true

It's hard to decipher your cryptic writing at times crow, only if you could express yourself to a greater audience my friend. You have a hidden intelligence most people here just don't see.

It's known as nonsense.


I must be thick as mince, then.
Szalawa, I know you are a very young Canadian, but you really should to try to find other role models.

Roger, you should read the last sentence of Szalawa's post. It is about Crow and it contains :