What's wrong with Poland? I don't see anything.

All I've learned here is that English speaking Americans of vaguely Polish descent hate Poland for reasons they cannot explain. And here I sit, drinking a Polish beer in Warsaw enjoying a great time in a great country, perplexed by your baseless disdain for a great land and great people.

So basically on holiday. Not dealing with the tax office on a cold winter's day, arguing with trashy neighbours about the rubbish they store long term in the hallway or fending off advances from drunken goldiggers. Very different from a short holiday.

I notice that you say you think Polish people are absolutely the best. You would know if you spent a bit more time here that It is a country of extremes. There are indeed some absolutely wonderful people here, but there is also the polar opposite.

Meh. If you don't pay your taxes in the u.s. they put you in jail. Government is no joy to deal with anywhere on Earth. But in poland I see a relatively weak and unfunded government compared to the overbearing mammoth bureaucratic Leviathan nanny/police states of the Anglo-sphere.

Weak? The central Government in Poland is far stronger than the provincial/municipal authorities.

Unfunded? Tell that to the people who pay over 50% of their income to the Polish government.

The same can happen here. Poland has a very high prison population. And a tax system where the state is always right. The police and courts too aren't great to deal with.

Explanation is rather simple; they’ve been called Pollacks all their lives so they have this need to fit in. Unfortunately bashing is the only way they know how to emphasize how patriotic they are about their adopted country. It’s low self esteem on their part; they simply mimic the behavior of their friends.

Jeśli wejdziesz między wrony, musisz krakać jak i one.

Well, this is an interesting thread. As an American man living in Poland for 3 months now, I must say that Nomen kind of hits the nail right on the head. I was traveling through all of Europe, London, Paris, etc, and when I reached Poland I felt a real culture and like I was in a foreign country for the first time. Although there is nothing perfect about any country on Earth, and I do not believe he is saying such a thing as some of the critics may say I am living a modest life on my military pension as a young man in Poland and could not be happier. Not only do people drink where they want, jay walk in front of police, drink on subways, buses, trams, etc. As long as the person is not offensively loud or violent, the police say nothing to them. Dogs walk obediently beside their masters with no leash. The "rights" of Western society you say that Eastern Europe is fighting for have not "made it here yet" and I am glad. There is definitely a strong national identity that has been forged through the epic struggle of the noble Polish people. They are resistant to giving up their national identity to become another Western tool in the consumerist sheep filled West by NOT agreeing that multiculturalism and blind acceptance of allowing an invasion of immigrants. The "xenophobia" that many of the Western countries are critical of Poland for will be the one thing that will keep their country moving upward. The repeated destruction and conquest of Poland is the only thing that has prevented it from being in the same boat as any of the Western countries in Europe. One can only hope that due to the struggles that the Polish people have had to put up with through history, constantly repelling foreign invaders, that they will resist the agenda of the EU to replace native population with immigrants, thus completely destroy all notion of national identity. Now, I understand the irony of a foreigner stating all of these views about Poland; however, as an American whose majority blood comes from European decent, I feel that I have a right to return to the lands my fore fathers should have never left.

Let us all hope that Western society continues to "look down" and find things "wrong" with Poland. That way I can enjoy a wonderful, unique society for the rest of my days on this planet, or until Russia invades after the U.S. Government attacks Syria, Iran, etc and World War 3 starts.

What?

Poland actually has far more liberal immigration laws than most other EU countries. The recent amnesty towards illegal immigrants certainly highlighted this.


The xenophobia that we talk about is usually found in the uneducated part of society. They certainly don't keep Poland moving!


Where'd you read about this, Stormfront?

Perhaps you might want to ask yourself what's going to happen by 2060 when we're going to see 1 working person for 1 retired person.


I'm curious as to how your blood comes from European descent when we all know that humans didn't originate in Europe.

That's being questioned right now. More and more humanoid remains are being found in Eurasia which simply don't fit the Out of Africa theory.

Delph: You are just another person who likes to promote the propaganda that only uneducated members of society are displeased with the destruction of national identities and the people who inhabit them. My experience living in and talking with Polish people agree with the aspects of the EU agenda I have discussed here. I myself have a Master's degree, in liberal arts and a Bachelors of Science in Atmospheric Science, both from American Colleges. The people with whom I have spoken with through the country have been some of the most educated from some of the best Universities in Poland. The vast majority of the free thinking Europeans I have met in my world travels have been easy to talk to about the issues troubling the world these days and are very receptive to my arguments, which they cannot refute and have evidence of my accuracy right before their eyes. You spout the "Stormfront" argument that all douchebags who cannot form a decent argument spout. It is the equivalent of playing the race card in hopes of cowing your opponent into no longer embarrassing you with logic.

As for the "Out of Africa" Theory of evolution, with new discoveries of ancient homo sapiens, interbreeding with Neanderthal and relevancy of Denisovans in the development of modern man, along with recent discoveries brings many of those theories into question. So, please before throwing stones at what the "uneducated" people say, maybe you should check your facts.

Delph: The one thing I forgot to mention was, Western Europe / America are already deep into the retirement ponzi scheme that you fear will effect Poland in 50 years. We will see the failure of such impossible systems long before it is an issue here.

In Poland, it's certainly true. Educated people are wise enough to realise that there's a demographic timebomb going off at the minute - with the Social Insurance Institution already being over 1 billion in debt and Poland facing a 1:1 ratio of workers:retirees within 50 years - we can see clearly that we need more taxpayers. And fast.

Incidentally, one of the recent winners of a Plain Polish award just so happened to be from Africa. I don't see him destroying their culture, do you?


We in Poland all know that American education is really nothing to shout about.


Those universities that don't boast a single entry in the top 500 in the world, right? And in Poland, "most educated" is meaningless when universities are throwing offers of PhD studies at students.


I only ask you one question - who is going to provide for Poland's elderly when there aren't enough Poles to pay taxes?

(fortunately, Poland is in the lucky position of being attractive to a large amount of Belarusians, Ukrainians and Russians).

Now, do you have a valid residency permit here? And if you're so concerned about Poland...why are you here and mixing? You aren't from here.

Then again, I do enjoy Americans coming to Poland and telling us how to live. I mean, we have no idea, really.

The point I make is, encourage your own people to have children instead of importing the immigrants to do the jobs. People cry about high youth unemployment. The vast majority of the young Poles are leaving the country to work overseas. Instead of giving all these benefits and social welfare to the immigrants give them to your own people to create a Polish citizenry that will support the system instead of importing people who will eventually destroy it.

As far as what am I doing here? I already discussed the irony of such a situation. Americans are all from somewhere else (even "native americans"), so I returned to where I should have never left.

You speak of debt when by the end of Obama's 2nd term in office, America will be 26 Trillion in debt, if projections hold. Also, just because you have more people does not mean you will have more tax payers. How do you know you will not have the problem California is having? They have TONS of more people (Mexicans) that are not paying taxes, destroying the state, leeching off the social programs and turning the West coast of America into a War zone or drug violence. Are they really providing this savior tax revenue? The answer is NO. Also, it is not just in California, look at England, France, etc.

Making linear projections out 50 years in a dynamic world is also folly. You cannot micromanage reality. However, you can look at a macro scale timeline of human history and see that the current goal of importing immigrants is a major fail just waiting to happen.

And what if they don't want to do the jobs? Poland already has plenty of people who think that menial work is "beneath them", despite the lack of unemployment benefits and so on. It's the same reason why there are so many Ukrainians employed in Poland, often illegally - they're willing to do the jobs that the Poles themselves don't want to do.


Not at all. If you said that they were leaving rural areas to work in cities, you'd be right. But the mass exodus we saw in 2004-2006 has slowed right down to a trickle.


Poland doesn't give benefits and social welfare to anyone, let alone immigrants. There's no money in the pot to give to Poles - as I said, there's a 1 billion plus black hole in the Social Insurance Institution, so what hope is there for the next generation unless someone else comes along to pay?

And for what it's worth, two members of our Sejm are foreign-born. Both of them are a huge credit to Poland, and represent the type of immigrant that we need here.


Most of them can't pay taxes because they're not there legally. Legalise their stay (as Poland is doing at the minute) and you can tax them. It's really that simple.

And again - there are no social programmes in Poland to leech off.


Looking at Polish history, the most successful period came during a time of mass immigration.

I'd agree with you if you wanted to keep out uneducated, non-contributing immigrants. But Poland desperately needs more experts - and as it's not an attractive country for EU citizens, there's no other choice but to look outside the EU.

Incidentally, the vast majority of Polish immigrants to the UK are a credit to Poland. Hard working, enthusiastic and generally everything that the work-shy Brits aren't.

naked women on magazine covers - that's freedom !!! ;-)

The ponzi schemes of social security/pension programs based on notions of infinite population growth are doomed to failure sooner or later regardless. As an "educated" person in the modern age you no doubt believe in peak oil and human caused climate change, therefore a declining overall population should be seen as both desirable and inevitable. Either populations shrink via birth control and social engineering or they shrink during a mass die off when the Earth cannot support its human population.

So immigration solves no long term problems while, in fact exacerbating much more significant problems than propping up ponzi schemes.

in US, stick to smaller, seaside towns.
There are shitholes in Poland, too.

Hate to interrupt this friendly banter but I must point out that, a large amount of illegal immigrants actually do pay taxes. They use a stolen SS# during the year, taxes are taken out, and at the end of the year are screwed out of filing for a tax return, switch SS#'s the following year, and repeat. So, actually the US gov't makes money off illegal immigrants, in a way.

articles.nydailynews.com/2011-04-20/local/29470037_1_sales-taxes-tax-revenue-property-taxes

Because I know you'll ask for proof when all you need to do is google "Illegal Immigrants pay taxes" and find tons of sources...

Then, of course, there are those who are here illegally and essentially enslaved. You know, sold for $6 a person in FL to pick our fruits and veggies or for prostitution. Or, forced to work in conditions where they can't leave bc the "masters" (if you will) know where their entire family lives in their birth country so they fear fleeing.

Google "Human Trafficking in the USA" or "Humans sold in Florida for Farm work" or anything else like that...

Hey, here's a question: Anyone here ever MET and TALKED to an illegal immigrant and knew their actual circumstances?

Immigration rights are actually something I follow closely in the USA, so just an fyi, it's not so cut-and-dry black & white. On either side.

Back to the topic on-hand... Sorry, but had to just say that.

The EU should "do its best to undermine" the "homogeneity" of its member states, the UN's special representative for migration has said.

Peter Sutherland told peers the future prosperity of many EU states depended on them becoming multicultural.

Blacks and muslims equate to prosperity, apparently. Which is funny as there is not one predominantly black or muslim successful nation.

But we Europeans, the people whom have invented nearly each and every piece of technology that has advanced humanity, need them.

You couldnt make this crap up. Before Europeans entered Africa, they hadnt even recorded a written language, the wheel or discovered fire.

When and why did you leave originally?

Like anyone takes the UN seriously on many issues. The way that they admitted Palestine as a member despite it not having the characteristics needed for membership was but one example of their insanity. That's just another example of some of the crap that they come out with.

(their total inability to deal with Syria right now is another example...)


Qatar is a good example - they've taken the cash and poured it into education. Still to be seen what happens, but they're starting to make massive improvements for themselves.

The problem with most Black/Muslim nations is that they seem to be spending their days blaming everyone else but themselves. Got a dodgy dictator? WE WERE ENSLAVED BY WHITE MAN AND ITS THEIR FAULT. Repeat.

ZImbabwe must be a textbook example on how to destroy a nation.

Baltimore city not baltimore county, I live in baltimore county and it's not bad

I was considering Cabot Cove for a vacation,but the murder rate is astronomical.....;)

Obviously he should avoid Warsaw and any shithole small towns.

If he has a independent income and can work from home, wherever he wants to be, then yes, move to Poland. I did it, earning about 22K per month where everything is cheap is great. I have not regretted moving to Poland in the 3 years I've been here, not for one a minute.

nomen, do it.

You won't suffer the problems most of these whiners do if you don't have to depend on a Polish income. Don't bother with Warsaw, Krakow is cheaper and obviously nicer.

If nothing else, it would be a experience.

What is wrong with Poland? The answer is simple - imigrants.
I don't care about hard working immigrants, many of them might be cool. The biggest problem are the arabs/pakis. My neighbourhood was 100% clear of any foreigners until like a year ago when two black guys moved in to an really old house near to where I used to live. They got bullied and moved out after a month. Now I noticed some goddamn pakis in the area. Whats funny, it wasn't a single dude I noticed, it was instantly a pack of them, like 5 or 6. They do nothing all day but sit outside, play cards, drink beer and shout in their god damned language. Sure, it's no biggie, they might get bullied by the local bydlo and leave like the blacks did but I think this is the beginning of the end. First it's an occasional black dude on the street (who is often well educated and does respectable job), everything is good. But then more join in, the first immigrant neighbourhood forms, they start living amongst themselves. This is the point of no return. They start living amongst themselves and the smart and respected indivuduals become the minority. What we get is the spread of arabs/blacks, like cancer, who turn to sh!t everything they touch. I don't know what is the cause of it. Why when they live amongst us they can be really respectable people but when they start living amongst themselves they become scum that destroys a nation from within

you gotta be kidding me. the last I checked, Poland was about as white as it gets. 98% Polish and 99.9% white. What the hell are you talking about. Surely that can't be what ails Poland the most.

I thought you lived in Canada, not Poland?

lol, are you really that thick?

Unlike some people on here, I'm never going to encourage Poland to take in millions of Africans, just because the EUSSR says so.

But look at the numbers - let's say, for example, there are 50000 of the kind of immigrants you object to in Poland. Then compare that to the number of lazy drunken unemployables in Poland. You will find that the figure is far higher.

Now, I imagine that you would have replied "it's their country, they can do what they want". But that doesn't change the fact that the indigenous useless are a far bigger problem than immigrants, useful or otherwise.

Are you sure you're talking about Muslims here? The cards and beer don't fit. Of course many Muslims do drink alcohol and play cards, but they're not usually very keen on admitting it to the general public ;-)

Look, I did not have any problems with immigrants while they kept to some far away, sh!tty places, like Warsaw. But when some goddamn pakis start showing up in my neighbourhood, it changes the matter significantly. I can already imagine some paki' getho growing up all around me.

The problem with Poland is it licks Western ass too much.