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Support wanted to stop the sale of live carp in Poland


britpol1 1 | 2
24 Jan 2011 #1
Hi everyone,
I know this is a very touchy subject but it one that breaches cruelty laws and I want to help stop it. As we know eating carp for Christmas supper is traditional here and I have no complaints about it. However, to sell the fish alive is absolutely cruel. There are laws that govern the well being of animals, even in Poland. To keep hundreds of carp in small pools in supermarkets is breaking these laws. Placing them in plastic bags is the same as me pushing your heads below water until you die. Carp are able to lower their metabalism and thus survive longer. But it is still suffocating to death. It just takes longer. Did you know that selling fish knowing these fish will suffer is illegal and buying them too is also breaking the law. I am looking for people to support me to stop these barbaric acts.

I should point out that I am English but I have lived in Poland 13 years. I am not anti Polish tradition. I am anti cruelty when it is not needed. I expect flack here but I am ready for that.

Thanks in advance,

Britpol1
Varsovian 92 | 634
24 Jan 2011 #2
Carp isn't an edible fish.
To pretend otherwise is cruel to humans.
Wroclaw Boy
24 Jan 2011 #3
I am anti cruelty when it is not needed. I expect flack here but I am ready for that.

Whats your take on buying live lobsters and plunging them head first into boiling water. I always had an issue with that personally.
OP britpol1 1 | 2
24 Jan 2011 #4
Another form of cruelty too. But then we are at the top of the in the context of intelligence. I think not.

Britpol1
dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007
24 Jan 2011 #5
Are you a vegan by any chance?
Varsovian 92 | 634
24 Jan 2011 #6
I would prefer lobster to carp.
Boz - | 23
24 Jan 2011 #7
Contacting someone/body in Brussels might prove to be more effective than this place...I've seen a van with RSPCA on it in Mokotow-perhaps they'd be better placed to advise you?
Wroclaw 44 | 5,387
24 Jan 2011 #8
''Support wanted to stop the sale of live carp in Poland''

I thought there was already a law in place.

do the usual: start a facebook page... go for a million signatures...

and watch as nothing gets done.
Varsovian 92 | 634
24 Jan 2011 #9
I'd ban the sale of dead carp too.
paulinska 9 | 86
24 Jan 2011 #10
My missus thinks this is the best thread ever created on here........
*you really don't want to see the look i gave her.....disappointed describes a tenth of how i feel now*
enkidu 7 | 623
24 Jan 2011 #11
At first sight - its a noble cause. You want to stop the carp suffering.

But I can see right through your sweet propaganda.

You are a carp hater! You want to kill them all! You want them dead.
This is sick.
I don't know - maybe some carp did something wrong to you when you was a child?
Maybe some carp female hurts your feeling a lot? I don't know. And I don't care.

Whatever IS your reason - there shall be no excuse for the Carp Extermination Movement!
You sicko.

LONG LIVE CARP!
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
24 Jan 2011 #12
I know this is a very touchy subject but it one that breaches cruelty laws and I want to help stop it.

Which law does it breach?

I wasn't aware that the sale of live carp was illegal.
BBman - | 344
24 Jan 2011 #13
In many western countries lobsters and other fish are kept in small tanks in grocery stores (especially chinese neighbourhoods)!! It's not the ideal arrangement, i'll admit that, but it could be much worse.

Why don't you protest the way animals are slaughtered/tortured before they are turned into packaged meat?

Here's just one of the thousands of videos available online:

* graphic video * Do not watch if you are sensitive.

youtube.com/watch?v=zhlhSQ5z4V4

edit:

Ah what the heck, here is another one for you:

youtube.com/watch?v=RENAGD9PCl8

Livestock beat by farmers, bulls castrated alive, poked & stabbed for fun, electrocuted, etc... animals clearly in excruciating pain as they moan and groan... it's all there, start watching.

I'm all for ending animal cruelty (i like animals) but attacking the sale of life fish in Poland is ridiculous. The fish are not tortured to death like the animals in the above video.
jonni 16 | 2,485
24 Jan 2011 #14
So you're saying that it's alright to sell live carp in Poland because some other countries do some worse things?

Not very clever...

By the same logic, presumably you think it's OK for someone to kill 35 people at Moscow airport because thousands have been killed in other attacks elsewhere.
BBman - | 344
24 Jan 2011 #15
So you're saying that it's alright to sell live carp in Poland because some other countries do some worse things?

What i said was that is that it is ridiculous to protest the sale of live carp whilst ignoring acts of animal cruelty as portrayed in the above videos i posted. I've never even heard of the humane society declaring the sale of live fish as being an act of animal cruelty.
jonni 16 | 2,485
24 Jan 2011 #16
Ridiculous? This forum is about Poland. Live carp are sold (and appallingly mistreated) in Poland and neighbouring countries. So 'ignoring' bullfights in Spain, dog skinning in China or pig sticking wherever they do that is entirely appropriate.

And buying a live fish, sticking it in a carrier bag then either beating it to death or dropping it in a bath that's cleaned daily with Cif etc is something that should be stopped now.
BBman - | 344
24 Jan 2011 #17
This forum is about Poland.

Animal cruelty as portrayed in those videos doesn't happen in Poland?
jonni 16 | 2,485
24 Jan 2011 #18
Who knows? Can we stop all animal cruelty? Or just tackle the issue of live carp.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
25 Jan 2011 #19
To be honest, in terms of "greater evils", there are much worse things happening in Poland than the carp issue. Most people don't really regard fish as being "alive" - but they certainly regard dogs tied up and left in the forest as alive.

Still wondering about this law that prohibits the sale of live carp, though.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,387
25 Jan 2011 #20
i understood the carp had to be killed out of sight at the point of sale. if it came from a tank that is.
Stu 12 | 522
25 Jan 2011 #21
Still wondering about this law that prohibits the sale of live carp, though.

Probably some EU-rule.

On a side note: I'd like to find an EU-rule about the "transportation of humans on trains". When you transport animals, they need to have water, food and some space. Looking at how humans were transported on trains a couple of weeks ago in Poland (even how they had to board the trains sometimes), one wonders if there are ANY laws applicable.

But maybe that's something for another thread.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
25 Jan 2011 #22
Looking at how humans were transported on trains a couple of weeks ago in Poland (even how they had to board the trains sometimes), one wonders if there are ANY laws applicable.

I think it's the special "make conditions hellish until people admit that giving huge discounts to a wide section of society is unsustainable" rule ;)
dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007
25 Jan 2011 #23
bulls castrated alive

You wouldn't do that if they were dead would you?

It's only a fish and a pretty rotten tasting one too. Who gives a carp!
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
25 Jan 2011 #24
Instead of outlawing it, why not just get better aquariums to put them in? They are fish after all. Unfortunately, low on the food chain and bound to be eaten. People catch fish from streams with hooks and carry them home, sometimes in a cooler, other times with other fish.

Honestly, it doesn't look like fun, but these are fish that are going to be eaten by carnivores or omnivores, whichever you think descibes humanity best. Any animal that is going to be eaten by another animal is not going to have the funnest time.
Chicago Pollock 7 | 504
25 Jan 2011 #25
Ridiculous. If it's cruel to eat carp, it's cruel to eat vegetables. Afterall, plants are living organisms too.
plk123 8 | 4,150
25 Jan 2011 #26
do the usual: start a facebook page... go for a million signatures...

and watch as nothing gets done.

xactly. lol
z_darius 14 | 3,968
30 Jan 2011 #27
I should point out that I am English but I have lived in Poland 13 years. I am not anti Polish tradition. I am anti cruelty when it is not needed

The reason they sell live carp is that carp is one of the shittiest fish out there. When you buy it live you're expected to keep it alive for a couple of days, swimming in some water but not feeding it so it shits out all the mud and "stuff" before you kill it and prep it for food.

You might conceivably create carp resorts and vacation centers where carp would be starved in more humane ways, such as bigger pools, but starving is inhumane in itself too. So no matter how you slice it (no pun intended) eating formerly alive creatures is pretty cruel. If you decide not to starve carp before consumption then you'd be advocating what Varsovian suggested - cruelty towards humans. You don't people to eat mud, do you?
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
30 Jan 2011 #28
This ridiculous: Why would anyone want to ban the sale of fresh fish?
Pinching Pete - | 558
30 Jan 2011 #29
If it's cruel to eat carp, it's cruel to eat vegetables

???.. It's cruel to be alive apparently.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
30 Jan 2011 #30
This ridiculous: Why would anyone want to ban the sale of fresh fish?

why can't it be sold already killed instead to make it suffer (without food in messed up water) for a weak or so in one's bathtub. Certain animals are meant to be eaten, I'm OK with that but it doesn't mean that they need to suffer before they get killed.

When I was in Poland, I saw it myself, those poor carps slowly dying in a bloody water, sold at the fresh market.


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