Relation in Poland to Orthodox Christians?

ἐκκλησία = gathering.

The word 'church' is in a language that did not exist then.


Written after Jesus' earthly time.

Really, then why did Jesus say in Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it."


Correct but as you know the author identifies as apostle Peter and the contents and character of the letter support the his authorship.
More over, the letter reflects the history and terminology of the Gospels of Peters speeches which reflect Peter's experiences and associations in the period of Jesus earthly ministry in the apostolic age.

That verifies that the terminology of the word Christianity most certainly was used during the time of Jesus.


It does seem that he enjoys splitting hairs just to have someone to debate/argue with.

He didn't. He spoke in Aramaic and people who were there (or claimed to be there) wrote about it (or orally gave their memories to those who wrote about it) in Greek, many years later.

Did you think He spoke English?


Very. And no, it certainly doesn't mean what you are trying to pretend it means. You were wrong. Read Acts 11:26.


What do those phrases even mean?

The Bible was written in many languages
Do you know what the word terminology means ?


I did and now you read Galatians 1:11-12
I want you to know, brothers, that he gospel I preached is not something I made up.
I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

Koinē Greek for the NT. Oral history in proto-Hebrew for the OT then written down in classical Hebrew.

Did you think it wasn't?


Entirely irrelevant to the discussion

Not least because the author of that letter never physically met Jesus nor ever claimed to have.

Ok, I can't do this anymore... I can't defend those a$sholes.

I was trying to stir up trouble, as I do, and thought I found the right thread :)

Fact is, I hate religion as mentioned many times in the past. All religion, except maybe Tengriism. Perhaps the proximate reason is because of how the religious bureaucracy behaves in my country of birth. The Patek Phillipes, S-Klasses, yachts, and palatial mansions is just the peak of the iceberg. You correctly pointed out their servile attitude towards the state. On the one hand, you could think - who can blame them? Peter the Great broke them, and put them under a Synod. Stalin broke them again. Now they're trying to get back on their feet, but they don't know where to start.

Sellers of opium, the lot. Parasites on the body of society. Conmen who exploit the vulnerable.

Is that what I said or did I say;


Quit playing games joun with your insinuations.


Extremely relevant to the discussion.
What do you think "I want you to know, brothers, that he gospel I preached is not something I made up.
I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."
Let me ask you joun, has your understanding of the Bible teachings been gained by careful first hand study of Scripture or by listening to others and studying literature about the Bible ?

How many times have you carefully and consecutively read through all the books of the new Testament ?

Reeally joun !
How lame are you ?
1 Peter
The author identifies himself as the Apostle Peter, and the contents and character of the letter support his authorship.
Moreover, the letter reflects the history and termonology of the Gospels and acts.
Its themes and concepts reflect Peter's experiences and associations in the period of our Lords's earthly ministry and in in the apostolic age.


Is that what Jehovah Witness teaches you ?
The Hold Bible teaches me this to counter you with; Matthew 26:33-34
Peter replied, "Even if I fall away on account of you.. I never will."
"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "this very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times."
And you joun are trying to tell us that Peter never physically met Jesus ?
Shame on you.
How about the last supper joun ?
All twelve disciples were present at the Last Supper, but a few key characters stood out.
Peter and John were members of Jesus' inner circle, and two of his most trusted friends.
Oh. and before you start your next post, please answer my two questions that I presented to you in the previous post.

Who neither spoke Greek nor was literate. You, however were talking about St Paul.

You were trying to pretend that St Paul had met Jesus. They never met. Your bluster and word salads are a weak attempt to distract from that.


Many. In both English and the original Greek.

[quote-jon357]He spoke in Aramaic and people who were there (or claimed to be there) wrote about it (or orally gave their memories to those who wrote about it) in Greek, many years later.[/quote]
Yes, some claim that the idiomatic Greek of this letter is beyound Peter's competence.
But at this time Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek were used in Palestine so he well may have been acquainted with more than one language.
Just because Peter was not professionally trained scribe does not mean that he was unacquainted with Greek, in fact as a Galilean fisherman, he is in all likeihood did use it.

Even if he had not known it in the earliest days of the church he may have acquired it as an important aid to his apostolic ministry in the decades that intervened between then and his writings of 1 Peter.

You may be confused joun because the Greek in 1 Peter is good literary Greek and even though Peter could no doubt speak Greek, as so many of the Mediterranian world could, it is unlikely that he would write such polished Greek.

But it is at this point that Peters remark in 5:12 concerning Silas may be significant.
Here Peter claims that he wrote "with the help of" Silas.
If you really would have read through the Bible several times like you claim you would have known this.
It is well know that a secretary like Silas in those days often composed documents in good Greek for those who did not have the language facility to do so.

Thus in in 1 Peter Sila's Greek may be seen while in 2 Peter it may be Peters rough Greek that appears.


Oh joun STOP !
You said that St. Peter never met Jesus in person which is simply not true.
You were wrong.


Bullshit, where did I ever mention St. Paul
It is now YOU who brought St. Paul into our debate
Lets stick to St Peter right now so not to confuse the issue.


NO, now you are pretending that I was pretending Slippery
I know St. Paul and Jesus never met in person and never said they did.
Your bluster of word salad is an attempt to distract from what I said and not from what you are pretending I said.
Like Novi said, "trying to be logical with you is a waste of time."
Class dismissed for today as I have better things to do than teach a J.W. about the Holy Bible.

'Some claim'?

In fact all serious scholars point out that the Bible describe him as "ἀγράμματοι", i.e. illiterate.


There is no such likelihood.

Despite what your long cut and paste from this source belonging to a fundamentalist religious sect claims.
svcnaz.org/uploads/5/4/4/8/54482107/introduction_to_1_peter.pdf


Unlikely that he wrote at all, given that Acts 4:13 describes him as "uneducated and ordinary"

Is it just me, or is JR a lot more coherent than usual?


I've never seen you write this way. Oh well, no matter. I'm no theologian, but I think Jon is right. Peter did not speak Greek, while Paul did.

My understanding of Peter is that he was sort of a dummy. A loyal, pious, naive dummy. Judas and Paul were the smart ones.

There was a big difference between the early Jerusalem believers and the Pauline believers who were mostly Hellenic Jews like Paul. Plus of course there were the Desposyni, nephews and great-nephews of Jesus, some of whom were martyred in Rome.

And then of course a few centuries later it became a state religion. And almost a couple of millennia later, it's ceasing to be that in most developed places,

In other words, the people that saved Christianity from being yet another Jewish sect that disappeared into the ether of history.

@Bobko
Pretty well. And they they themselves slowly disappeared into the mainstream.

Sometimes I think Swedenborg was right,

About what? If he were around today there'd be new Waco Sieges, and Jonestown Mass Suicides. What could a guy that claimed to visit Heaven and Hell, nightly, teach us?

A great deal, and his writings are indeed rich in metaphor. Have you read many?

And the denominations that follow his teachings are generally as far from the cultists of Waco and Jonestown as you can get.

Only what was assigned to me. The person leading discussions was a skeptic, and he imparted the same POV to us, his students. We read a bit from Swedenborg's "sane" days, and then a bit from his "schizophrenia" days. That's all I know.


How so? In each case we are dealing with a self declared prophet that has a direct line to our Maker?

Like you are claiming ?
Here is another question for you joun since you have nothing to back up your claims about Peter never meeting Jesus and I did.
Let me as you in regarding Jesus Christ.
"Why do you carefully avoid calling Jesus Christ "the Lord" when this title is used in direct connection with His name at least 144 times in the New Testament ?"

How do you account for the fact that statements in the Old testament made distinctly of Jehovah are used in the New Testament for Jesus Christ ?

He did have an interesting life; a huge IQ and probably we'd say he was on the spectrum now. A true genius.


There are thousands of those knocking around. Including some that wrote books in the Bible. Are they all the same?

You are asking me - an atheist - this question? If so - then receive your answer: "YES!".


This is an easy one. The answer is because Christianity is a Jewish sect.

Exactly and joun has claimed to be a Jew so why is he stymied on my two questions, for him, above ?

It's the same for anyone, believer or not; humans can be judged solely by their behaviour.


That's its origin; it is certainly much more than that now.


Hardly 'stymied' since I've only just seen them. Not all of us are glued to a computer 24/7.

To answer Jim's silly questions:

"Why do you carefully avoid calling"
Who 'carefully avoids' it? A very silly question and this is an internet message board not a church service. There are at least 50 different titles used for Jesus in English alone. Are we supposed to use a particular one just to suit your preference?

"How do you account for"
Why would I need to 'account for' a random question?

To answer your rather basic question, all mainstream Christians believe in the pre-existence of Christ just as the Hellenistic Jews before Christ believed in the Logos. That is of course why the Hellenistic authors of the NT stressed that; to emphasise the unity between Jesus and the first Person of the Trinity, to stress their belief that Jesus was the fulfilment of the messianic prophecies in the later part of what we now call the Old Testament.

Didn't you know such a basic aspect of the Christian religion that you had to ask that question? And you a 'church elder' too...

You do up to this point.
Are you now saying that you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Savior ?
Yes or No ?


Yes, to show everyone here that you don't know much about the Holy Bible and Gods word.


I wish, I am far from being so versed,
Now for your next question: "Why are you Jehovah Witness when Isaiah 43:10 , from which you take this name, refers to the nation of Israeal, the decendents of Jacob.

If by many names by which God is known in the Bible, Jehovah is the one for His people to use today, "why is it never found in the New Testament ?

How do you account for the fact that while there are no various designations for God's people in the New Testament, they are never called Jehovah Witness ?"

This isn't a catechism or about New York-based new religious movements; it's about the position of Orthodoxy in Poland where there is a significant minority, especially around Bialystok. Have you visited Podlasie?


In which case you aren't making a very good job of it.

You seem to have a thing about Jehovah's Witnesses. This thread isn't about protestant sects like your own or the JWs or any other American oddity. It's about relations between Polish Orthodox and other Christians in Poland.

It isn't about your meltdowns or your copy and pasted texts from extreme fundamentalist sects outside Poland.

Have you ever attended the Divine Liturgy in a Polish Orthodox church? What did you think about it and what is your opinion of the way the Orthodox heartland of north-east Poland differs from the rest?


Not difficult really...

Baptist! (sensu largo)

Other denominations don't prioritize that.

Handy guide to how types of Christianity are similar (core beliefs as set out in the Nicene Creed) and dissimilar (structure of church, relative importance of different aspects of the Bible, view of Christ etc)

youtube.com/watch?v=tzLS4O7YaUg


Back in the PRL the Białystok województwo was the only one with a non-RC majority... (there are also muslims there [Tatars] but tradiitonally very easy going and known for their Polish patriotism).

Quite. I used to know a Pentacostalist lady who was always asking people that too. She used to have to sit silently at the back of her church since they'd found out she'd slept with a white guy, something that wasn't really much of an advert for the religion she was always trying to convert people to.


It probably still is, however the figures are unreliable for the Podlasie religion as a whole, both for nationalistic reasons and to diffuse religious tensions (a few years ago a shrine/pilgrimage site was burnt down by locals). Relations do seem generally good, and the places that are majority Orthodox always have a nice feel about them.

Some of the Orthodox churches are very worth visiting. Beautiful music.

Orthodox know how to do spectacle and I always like visiting the churches.... though their ultimate explanation of the faith (we don't really know how any of this sh|t works) seems a bit... anti-climactic....

youtu.be/ze9SuBoiAsw

American Jonathan Jackson about the reasons he converted from Protestant to Orthodox Christianity.

Without watching the video probably about tradition.... lots of modern hard trads end up with orthodoxy because it's the most concerned with tradition.