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I am being overchanged for water consumption in Poland? Help 1000 PLN?


mijo
2 Mar 2020 #1
I just got email from my landlord that I need to pay for extra water consumption for last year 2019

As a single-living tenant, it's extremely absurd. Additional 1000 zl for cold+hot water consumption..??

I still claim that something's been calculated wrong on the bill. Can someone explain why is this 103,000 m3 instead of 57,707 m3

BILL IMAGE: imgur.com/SxDumUL

We asked the estate administration this is their response:

Witam,
rozliczenie jest prawidłowe.
Wszystkie liczniki poboru wody (niebieski i czerwony) wskazują pobór zimnej wody i ścieków, która jest dostarczana przez Miejskie Przedsiębiorstwo Wodociągów i Kanalizacji

Natomiast licznik czerwony pokazuje ile wody zostało podgrzane przez firmę VEOLIA, która dostarcza ciepło na wspólnotę.
Looker - | 1,050
2 Mar 2020 #2
It's your first water settlement I presume? It looks ok for me.
57,707 is just the cold water, and additional 45,861 is the heated water.
1000zl for water per YEAR is normal too. Be ready for a little more in the next year.
pawian 171 | 12,080
2 Mar 2020 #3
Additional 1000 zl for cold+hot water consumption..??

Hmm, why do you say additional? Do you already pay for water each month? Water costs are usually included in the maintanance costs.
OP mijo
2 Mar 2020 #4
57,707

Cold water = 57,707
Hot water = 45,861

but what is 103,568 ?

It is the first time I'll have to pay EXTRA 1000 PLN for water. Forgot to say. I am paying 450 pln for bills already. this is additional cost.

@pawian
Yes I pay everything (all bills) included in my rent. This 1000 is for extra water usage.
Torq 32 | 2,897
2 Mar 2020 #5
I get "wyrównanie opłat za media" every 6 months and pay about 450-500pln, so what you're asked to pay for a year sounds about right. On the other hand, it seems a bit much for a single person.
kaprys 3 | 2,415
2 Mar 2020 #6
@mijo
103 m3 per year is roughly 8-9 m3 per month which is not much if you take showers, do the washing up or the washing.
Torq 32 | 2,897
2 Mar 2020 #7
@kaprys

I suppose it depends on whether it's his overall water consumption, or additional payment on top of what he already pays every month in rent.

Yes I pay everything (all bills) included in my rent. This 1000 is for extra water usage.

Well, then 1000pln seems a bit much for a single person. That's how much I pay for extra usage in Gdańsk for a 4-person family.
pawian 171 | 12,080
2 Mar 2020 #8
I get "wyrównanie opłat za media" every 6 months

That`s strange. When they charge you extra costs after a calendar year, they include the last usage into advanced payment for the next year. If the chargeback is 500 PLN every 6 months as you say, it means each year you use more and more water.

I am paying 450 pln for bills already.

I pay 100 PLN more and the water usage is calculated at 122 PLN each month for a big family.
Torq 32 | 2,897
2 Mar 2020 #9
If the chargeback is 500 PLN every 6 months as you say, it means each year you use more and more water.

Hm... it is strange indeed. I never thought too much about it; the bills came, so I paid them. Will take a look at them later.
kaprys 3 | 2,415
2 Mar 2020 #10
@Torq
It's wyrównanie. You can see part of the bill on imgur -link included.

Imho, it sucks it's done yearly as you get a nasty surprise once a year. We get it once a year with the central heating but when it comes to water consumption it's once every three months.

Basically what I do is to pay a bit extra every month to avoid high costs when the report comes but I guess it's more tricky if you just rent a flat.

450 PLN per month for czynsz water included is not much.
pawian 171 | 12,080
2 Mar 2020 #11
I never thought too much about it; the bills came, so I paid them. Will take a look at them later.

Probably the chargeback is not only for water but also other utilities, especially heating. But the winter has been mild this year, so you should have an overcharge at last.

450 PLN per month for czynsz water included is not much.

It is only bills and maintanance costs. Landlords charge their own rent, too.
kaprys 3 | 2,415
2 Mar 2020 #12
@pawian
I know but still it's not much - roughly a czynsz for 30 square metre flat where I live.
And if you look at his zaliczka na wodę both hot and cold, it's just roughly 60 pln per month. That's why he needs to pay extra now.
OP mijo
3 Mar 2020 #13
Okay so my Landlord was paying this amounth for water:

Zimna woda i odprowadzenie ścieków = around 37 PLN / month
Podgrzanie wody = 21 PLN / month

Can you guys explain me what is this 103,568 m3 on the image ?

imgur.com/SxDumUL

I already claimed to our estate administration but they said bill is correctly read.
P.s: I'm the first tenant in this flat - new building. Never had this problem but now I'm obliged to pay this amount
Torq 32 | 2,897
3 Mar 2020 #14
I'm the first tenant in this flat - new building.

This might be the solution to this riddle. When we bought our new apartment it was shell and core, so it took us some time to do the kitchen, two bathrooms, all the interior finishing and stuff, before we could move in. Meanwhile, we still had to pay the bills but the declared water usage was very low. After we moved in, we forgot to change the declared consumption and got a big "wyrównanie" after the first year.

Perhaps your landlord also left the declared consumption value at a low level, assuming that the tenants will pay "wyrównanie" for extra usage anyway. He should have warned you that it will happen though.
gumishu 11 | 5,326
3 Mar 2020 #15
Can you guys explain me what is this 103,568 m3 on the image ?

the 103.5... figure is a sum of cold and hot water you used - if you lived in the place for the whole 2019 it just means you use too much water- when I lived alone I used less than 2 cubic meters a month washing my whole body everyday (i really did save on water while washing myself)- try economizing this year
OP mijo
4 Mar 2020 #16
@gumishu
ok so if 103,5... m3 is hot+cold water consumption.

Then what is 45,861 m3? Podgrzanie wody ?
Ziemowit 13 | 4,038
4 Mar 2020 #17
Of course. Not all water supplied to your place is heated. Only the water which is measured in the 'hot water' meter.
NoToForeigners 10 | 1,054
4 Mar 2020 #18
11,613 GJ - water used in central heating to heat up your flat
45,861 m3 - hot water in your tap
57,707 m3 - cold water in your tap and water used in sewerage

Your bill is for both water and heating
OP mijo
6 Mar 2020 #19
@NoToForeigners
Guys i know what does that mean but my claim is all about incorrect reading. (at least that's what I think)

Can you please check the image below I tried to explain my complain about this topic.
excuse my paint skills :)))

IMAGE CLICK HERE => imgur.com/UuFe2p5
terri 1 | 1,665
6 Mar 2020 #20
I have had a look at your bill. You are CORRECT in your assumptions. Obviously someone in the office pressed the wrong key. Your calculations are right. Take someone who speaks good Polish with you and explain to them what has happened. They need to understand this or ask them to explain why the wrong figure has been used.

According to them, their actual calculations are correct EXCEPT that they are using the wrong usage of water in their calculations.
dovla
6 Mar 2020 #21
The calculation is correct, I think. You pay 15,84 zl/m3 for the heating of cold water. The total price for the hot water is therefore price of the cold water (9,85 zl/m3) + price of heating of the cold water (15,84 zl/m3) = 25,89 zl/m3. You consumed 103,568 m2 of cold water, out of which 45,861 m3 was heated.

It would be strange if you would pay only 15,84 zl/m3 for hot water. I pay 29,3 zl/m3.
terri 1 | 1,665
6 Mar 2020 #22
To consume 103 m3 of water, you would need to consume over 8 m3 per month. The average is generally counted as 3 m3 per person.
OP mijo
12 Mar 2020 #23
That's so unrealistic. So basically I am paying two times for heated water. To sum up this topic:
I pay 45,861 m3 for heated water
I pay 45,861 m3 + 57.707 m3 for cold water.

@dovla Administration office said exactly same like you. But to me it didnt make sense. If there is water that's been heated. They should count it as HOT water. not include as COLD water.
pawian 171 | 12,080
12 Mar 2020 #24
How about this one? They provide water to my flat. It is only cold water. To have it hot for kitchen and bathroom purposes I need to heat it with my gas burner. I pay seperate bills for gas and cold water.

I think it is a fair deal.
jon357 63 | 15,068
12 Mar 2020 #25
It sounds straightforward to me. A top up payment at the end of the year is normal, unless you've been overpaying.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,038
12 Mar 2020 #26
But to me it didnt make sense.

Your reasoning is wrong. You don't pay for heated water. You pay for heating the water and that's a big difference. You pay for all the water supplied and that includes the hot water.

I pay 45,861 m3 for heated water

You pay not for 45 m3 heated water, you pay for heating that amount of water. I should think the correct term on your bill should be 'podgrzanie wody' rather than 'ciepła woda'. This is the concept you can't understand, maybe because imprecise terms are used on your bill by the administration.

I pay 45,861 m3 + 57.707 m3 for cold water.

They should simply say here you pay for water rather than for 'cold water'.
pawian 171 | 12,080
12 Mar 2020 #27
Your reasoning is wrong. You don't pay for heated water. You pay for heating the water and that's a big difference.

What if they do charge him double? I didn`t have a look at those bills. Could they have made a mistake?


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