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Men in Poland in the forest? Just men?


OP Dreadnought 1 | 143
26 Feb 2013 #91
Of course it is illegal!! but this is a part of Poland that is a place apart.......bit like the wilds of kentuckey where the people have illegal stills...same here, it is highly illegal, but because it is part of the culture it is overlooked...almost every farmer makes his own 'bimber' here. This area is poor and is not as well Policed as a big city, less police, because less money....plus you have to live here to see how it is situated..loads of little farmsteads up hidden in the hills anything could be happening there, policing nightmare!!!......but crimes here do not tend to be burglary (the odd drunk tries to break into a sklep now and then, just seen it today, door jamb all broken on our local village shop, done in January apparently, but a woman here even a young girl can expect to walk around at night in the dark (few street lights) without being molested, no one will mug you for money or a mobile phone worst thing is a drunk will try to tap you for a zloti for beer and they are so polite about it too...I feel much safer here than I have in many other parts of Europe where I have lived..
f stop 25 | 2,513
27 Feb 2013 #92
I think those are just guys hanging out, talking and killing time. They squat when they're tired of standing. They would sit if they had something to sit on. They don't want to do it in public because somebody probably has a bottle of vodka.

I see similar phenomena in my neighborhood around an opened hood of a car.
As a matter of fact, when a guy lifts a hood of his car here, it's a secret sign for other guys in the neighborhood to gather around. ;)
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
27 Feb 2013 #93
the people that I saw squatting around a low table in an Arab country were all men, they did not allow the women to eat with them and here when the men are squatting they do not allow women to squat with them!!!

There is no unisex squatting because the women can out squat the men. They have more practice.

I mix with professors and businessmen and teachers and doctors ...

Aha, therein lies the answer to your "squatting" fixation or is it a fetish? These professions contain a high percentage of 'squatters'.

the locals say I am kind and brave...,

Only your modesty surpasses those virtues.

My wife is so good to me...

Is she Asian?

when I lived in the UK I often saw many men sit in the forest in 'squares'.

I saw them form figure 8's. It was squatting to perfection; and the odd ball thing was, they only wore t-shirts.

.visitors always comment on the size of my bookshelves..

Do you have an 'Adult' section?

In America, tired and stressed city executives go out into the woods with other tired and stressed executives and build 'sweat lodges' of branches covered with blankets, moss, branches etc where they heat stones with fire, then get naked and poor water on the stones to make steam.

That's how I met my ex-wife. She was watching us from a squat position near the asbestos plant runoff..

I like the rural Poles in this area they are fairly honest and simple people,

Have you considered adopting a few? They make excellent pets.
Ironside 49 | 10,375
27 Feb 2013 #94
There is no unisex squatting because the women can out squat the men. They have more practice.

Thanks zimmy LAMO!
Nicely done.
OP Dreadnought 1 | 143
27 Feb 2013 #95
You see I said I like the funning and jokes on here as well as the venom and bile.......My wife is a bit foreign, she was brought up in Silesia (they claim to be more civilised, but I am not so sure...all those coal mines?) and yes my bookshelves do have an adult section...one book on fetishes etc....I use it as a talking point and to surprise the unwary. I have adopted many rural Poles but not as pets, we teach English/German to some delightful children and I keep several adult males for digging ditches etc (they will work for 1 Zloti per hour and glad of it......I told you this was a poor area.)
thetenminuteman 1 | 80
27 Feb 2013 #96
(they will work for 1 Zloti per hour and glad of it......I told you this was a poor area.)

You're proud of paying locals 1 zloty an hour?

Good luck to you when you get controlled by the labour office.
Ironside 49 | 10,375
27 Feb 2013 #97
You're proud of paying locals 1 zloty an hour?

That rubbish.
OP Dreadnought 1 | 143
27 Feb 2013 #99
Ha ha...My wife pays them 1 Zloti an hour and around here trust me they are glad of it, there is just no work at all, so if I don,t employ then they have no work and not even a single Zloti. But don,t worry we do play a little psychological trick and at the end of the day, I will have a beer with them and give them a 20 Zloti bonus for good work.....the word gets round how good an employer I am and what a nice guy. Go away and think about it.....I know it makes your blood boil ha ha. (It is getting so I do it now just to wind you all up...I,ll tire of it soon!)
Ironside 49 | 10,375
27 Feb 2013 #100
.My wife pays them 1 Zloti an hour

Maybe..but nobody would work for one zloty per hour. That BS.
ShortHairThug - | 1,103
27 Feb 2013 #101
My wife is a bit foreign

I’ll say, judging by the wages she is willing to pay she must be ……….. ;) LOL

and yes my bookshelves do have an adult section...one book on fetishes etc...

No doubt in my mind, the only section that’s not covered in dust.

so if I don,t employ then they have no work and not even a single Zloti.

Not too many takers I see, your futile attempt to seek them out in the forest is clearly not working, they rather spend quality time yet still have enough money to buy cheap booze to pass the time. Have you considered changing your strategy? Raising the ante perhaps? To make it worthwhile for them.

we teach English/German to some delightful children and I keep several adult males for digging ditches etc

Business can’t be all that good for you and your wife. How can a ditch digger making 1zł afford English lessons for his kid? Besides, why would an unemployed simple folks (as you have described them) want to study a foreign language? Your story is not making any sense; looks like you’ll be moving on very soon.

To summarize

Go away and think about it.

perhaps come up with a better story.
thetenminuteman 1 | 80
27 Feb 2013 #102
Maybe..but nobody would work for one zloty per hour. That BS.

What's with all these foreigners on PF lately telling the most incredible lies about Poland?
OP Dreadnought 1 | 143
27 Feb 2013 #103
This is a different part of Poland, but it is just like the rest of Poland (so I am told) there are people with the money to give their children extra education and there are the ditch diggers who earn very little or nothing. We teach two children for free (yes yes I know you won,t believe that either because it,s not a Polish thing to give your time free is it, I have found that the shrivelled Polish soul struggles with this most Western of concepts) eventually even my wife came round to the idea of loss leaders, she was in sales and marketing...it has paid off in the end. You would be surprised and maybe proud though of your countrymen (actually it,s mostly women) even the poorest here will sometimes go without to give their children hope for the future.
f stop 25 | 2,513
27 Feb 2013 #104
1 Zloti an hour

That kind of pay is largely symbolic. Either they are doing you a favour or they're paying off a debt. Or they're secretly plotting to chop off your head. ;)
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
28 Feb 2013 #105
I have found that the shrivelled Polish soul struggles with this most Western of concepts)

It is true that the "Polish soul" has shriveled and is now only twice the size of the average 'western soul', particularly one that has a need to denigrate others.
ShawnH 8 | 1,507
28 Feb 2013 #106
It is true that the "Polish soul" has shriveled and is now only twice the size of the average 'western soul'

But there is still a good market for the Polish soul. You just have to find the right buyer.
Rysavy 10 | 308
28 Feb 2013 #107
bit like the wilds of kentuckey where the people have illegal stills

LAWL!!

Though there is your answer. When you first started posting I thought ,"it's not unusual for hicks". At least in the back areas of TN, NC, SC, KY and even AZ (prolly W VA & GA too but not lived there). but I withheld earlier comment since maybe it was some kind of specific thing. What I know about Poland can fit in a resume folder.

But in US rural areas it is common to see the g/f leaning on the car hood as well..there was always that clique of 6-7 guys that go do 'manly' stuff sans the nagging, want his sweater, wanna go out feminine half. And hung with the 'lucky' singles. But hanging parking lots or such often has the cops shoo you away as trespassers not customers. And public drinking is no no.

Usually the couples go out to the woods/middle of desert? hang at one campfire with a few singles and the singles at another. The singles rarely had girls near..what girl with ANY reputation is gonna hang in middle of nowhere with a bunch of guys and drink or gossip about...girls?

Since trailriding, hunting and firearms in general are not really the social norm them all hanging about might appear odd. But I would still say it is just the "man bonding" thing.

Hmm souls for sale? I am a ginger... I need them! or at least portions in order to keep my freckle count up and illusion of eternal youth!
OP Dreadnought 1 | 143
2 Mar 2013 #108
Whoa....lots of trailriders here....trails galore for them and hunters? we have deer in our fields right now, I can see them from my window, you can,t move for hunters certain times of the year....this is not the big city that most of you know neither is it the village of your grandmother that you sometimes visit, this is the real wilds. I would also like to discuss the problem of the guys 'chopping our heads off' well I don,t think so...(and yes they will work a days work for 10 Zl for beer money, but in truth we like to get the more sober ones and will pay them 20-40zl for a days digging/general labouring.... (to be honest I could also do it with my tractor, but they work out cheaper than my time - could be doing other things and diesel...plus it gives people some work where other wise they would have none....and you all know how much they would get on social security) back to 'chopping our heads off' We have heard this before from a Polish friend (very well educated and holds one of the highest qualifications in his university....an erudite and well travelled man!!! damn nice guy as well...... He like you may do??? laughed at us when we told him our plan (be ready to laugh at our plan for when we get old!!!) We have no heirs, we both have daughters who are terminally wealthy and would not have even the slightest interest in this place because of its position in Poland. (were it a nice apartment in an upmarket area of a city then one of them might have an interest) We are trying to adopt here in Poland but who knows if it will happen?(bureaucracy) our original plan was to keep our eyes and ears open over the years and when we get decrepit and too old to work the farm, we would invite some young couple that we know and trust, to take it on...(we have a spare 5 bedroomed house (more rooms than the one we live in) and they would provide us with food from the farm and it would be a base for them to work from.....they would inherit the farm houses and land when we die. Now whats wrong with that???....in UK it would/could work!!!!........ our friend roared with laughter until he cried!!! They are Poles...... they won,t be grateful.....you won,t get to die of old age...THEY WILL POISON YOU or worse!!!! When you stop laughing.........is he right?????
f stop 25 | 2,513
2 Mar 2013 #109
when we get decrepit and too old to work the farm, we would invite some young couple that we know and trust, to take it on...(we have a spare 5 bedroomed house (more rooms than the one we live in) and they would provide us with food from the farm and it would be a base for them to work from.....they would inherit the farm houses and land when we die. Now whats wrong with that???...

The idea that you would find honest, hardworking couple to take care of you and your farm in exchange of promise of inheritance is imperfect to say the least, but you would not be a first one to come up with it.

The problem is that honest and hardworking people want a decent wage and their own corner in the world, not indentured servitude waiting for you to die, and then a court battle with your family and rightful heirs after you're gone.

The right thing to do is to keep looking for good workers and to pay them very well so they don't think you're a cheep bastard trying to take advantage of their desperate situation. And do not use the inheritance as the carrot.

Otherwise you will only attract the types that will want to outsmart you.
OP Dreadnought 1 | 143
2 Mar 2013 #110
f stop I thank you for your input......you see my wife has been in the UK for 30 years, she is Polish and is a patriot, but will admit that she has lost a lot of her Polishness. She would not see what you can. You see to our mind....we would not be being cheap....we would be giving...free gratis to someone who owns or stands to inherit from their family....nothing at all. But it would be when we die, so probably their children would really be the ones who inherit something that their parents could not give in the ordinary run of life. Also they would be able to have jobs, as many around here do, and still run the farm (it is not a huge farm) and the garden alone could feed a huge family. I invite further reasons why good people would not be happy with this arrangement? and of course it would be writtten in a contract and we would as per Polish law disinherit our rich children......(I honestly doubt that my daughter would even want to come to Poland much less inherit an old Farm in the Podkarpacie ha ha she could point to New York/Sydney and California on a map but probably has no idea where Poland is) Perhaps we could think 'Polish style' and have a waver in the contract that if we die in suspicious circumstances they get nothing?? it would encourage them to look after us for their childrens sake. My wife just suggested that you (being a Pole) might think that we would charge them money to live in the house until we are dead??? No No No...I am English...they would live in the house for free. they could as I said have jobs as well to give them spending money without the worry of having to pay for somewhere to live.

The idea that you would find honest, hardworking couple to take care of you and your farm in exchange of promise of inheritance is imperfect to say the least, but you would not be a first one to come up with it.The problem is that honest and hardworking people want a decent wage and their own corner in the world, not indentured servitude waiting for you to die, and then a court battle with your family and rightful heirs after you're gone.

I really must apologise here......my wife is still a little bit Polish and having read my post said. "No No No..these people replying to your post are Poles!!! they will immediately think that you are trying to do what they would do and make slaves of these people" I have to explain that English people will sometimes seem crazy to Poles. You are thinking, Why would they give away a farm that will potentially be worth a couple of million Zloti sometime not too far ahead.......but to me....I don,t care if it will be worth 10 billion Zloti if I,m dead!!!! We have a saying in England....'You cannot take it with you'. (I honestly don,t believe in an afterlife!!) So just to make it clear and simple we would be letting these people live in a house on our land...for free gratis....all they would have to do is keep on growing the vegetables etc that we already grow and give some to us, also cut down trees as we do now for firewood and provide us with firewood. They could have jobs as well, many people in this area do just that, they farm, but may also have a job as a builder/ work in a sklep. My wife and I have plenty of money to live on and buy other things that we need we don,t need to ask them for money. Also as I said previously we would disinherit our heirs and leave all to these people in a legal will. Ha ha!! I can now see that we instinctively think very differently, but you must forgive me I have only been here for 3 years and I,m still not up to speed with the deeper culture.
f stop 25 | 2,513
2 Mar 2013 #111
You keep generalizing. Not all Polish people think one way, and British, another.

Promising someone riches after you die only leads to trouble, and normal, reasonable people will not go for it. Polish or English, or Siamese.
It's like "can I have this today, and I promise you will be paid after I die". You just can't control people like that. What if, in a year or two, your saintly couple realize that you are an unbearable tyrant, for example, and have to sever the relationship?

And you really don't see that telling strangers that they will not get paid until you die is a very stupid idea?

There is nothing wrong with keeping your eyes open for people worthy of what you think is your generosity, but with that 1zl per hour, you are really not making any loyal friends. Be careful. That's exploitation, not generosity.

When you get too old take take care of yourself, and are unable patch things up with your daughters, or relay on generosity of the rest of your family, you'll have to pay somebody to take care of you. Hopefully, they will be paid well enough to wish you long and happy golden years.
OP Dreadnought 1 | 143
2 Mar 2013 #112
Again I thank you...you have certainly clarified for me the oh so Polish viewpoint. I do hope that others will come along with their ideas and qualify your viewpoint. If they don,t I will again be confused and have to reconsider my plans. My wife and I, thinking in 'our' way still think it would be a good deal for someone with an eye to the future, an investment in the future of their children if you like.....but if this will not be possible....well we will think of something. We had hoped to adopt a child and that child could have inherited and looked after us, but maybe as you say that child would not want to be tied to us in that way....For instance I as a child left home at 16 years old and joined the Army I never went home again I was having such a great time so you could be right. I,m not sure that you have read what would be on offer? free housing for life and a lot of wealth at some time in the future? we do invest money for the future....this would be similar.....just an investment of time. I am reading and re reading your post.....you see how different we are...no you don,t do you?.....we do not do this clinging to our families thing it seems entirely alien to us....and patch things up with our daughters???....you seem not to understand.....we free our children from the burden of us...we send them out to fly free, not cage them. We are not at odds with our daughters we just do not live in their pockets.....family life is not so constricting where we come from. Ha ha...do you make friends with the guy who digs a ditch for you? we had not considered our ditch diggers children for the post of house keepers...(and with good reason but I will not discuss that here)
f stop 25 | 2,513
2 Mar 2013 #113
your inability to see logic instead of "oh so polish" viewpoint is very telling.
And I would be weary of people, if and when you find them, who will tell you that living is someone else's house until they die is a worthy goal for their lives.

Again, if and when the arrangement will prove unsatisfactory, what will those people have to show for it? Or, they have to put up with any demands, for totally indeterminate amount of time, or lose the payout?

I as a child left home at 16 years old and joined the Army I never went home again

As I often say, the way you take care of your parents, is how your children will take care of you. My advice is to try compromising and consider what can be done to get closer to your own family.
OP Dreadnought 1 | 143
2 Mar 2013 #114
AAAGH!!! we don,t want to burden our families.....you see... again there is this huge culture barrier between us......we think that getting closer to our families would be hell on earth....whereas you nice people are oh so cuddly with your families and love living in each others pockets. But it is interesting....this culture thing.... I have just been putting my plan to people that I have known for years...one in the United States (ex military man) and one in UK.....both intelligent and well travelled people......the reaction from both of them was..'what a good plan, and so very good for the people who get the windfall of your property' in almost the same terms.......and what has been the reaction from Poles? 'Don't do it they will murder you in your beds for a few Zloti'!!!!!! it is a bit telling isn,t it? Poles seem so much more pragmatic and brits nd yanks seem so romanitcally hopeful....how we ever had that huge Empire is beyond me? maybe we were different then and much more viscious. Please don,t think that you are not being helpful...you are helping us to better understand the culture barrier.....it is even so for my wife...30 years in UK has softened her.
f stop 25 | 2,513
2 Mar 2013 #115
It looks to me that, even though you put down families, you think you can buy one for yourself.
The ones that think this is a good idea, think money can buy people.
The ones that try to give you arguments against it are the smart ones, and probably feigning concern out of politeness.
OP Dreadnought 1 | 143
2 Mar 2013 #116
Again..you mis-understand...we were not thinking of buying a family, look how can I explain it........if you have a farm where I come from, you work at it and make a profit, you buy more land.......and then one day you think? I should be reaping the rewards from this not slaving away miking cows and ploughing fields....so you hire a farm manager who does all the managing and you just lie back in your conservatory and enjoy a well earned rest........we were thinking more in terms of a Manager than a family!!!!! We do not put families down! they are just not for us...you and anyone else that likes the 'family system' is welcome to it, to us and many people like us, it is simply a lifestyle choice not a nescessity.
f stop 25 | 2,513
3 Mar 2013 #117
so you hire a farm manager who does all the managing

but... if you hire a manager, we would not have this discussion!
My entire point of contention is that I understood you didn't want to hire a manager and pay them. You thought that the priviledge of living in your house, and a promise that they will inherit inherit the farm when you die should be a good deal for all.

I have provided numerous arguments why this is not a good idea.
If you at least take some of them under consideration for what they are, instead of cultural bias, this would not have been a waste of time.
OP Dreadnought 1 | 143
3 Mar 2013 #118
We arrive closer to and agreement. I cannot change who I am and my cultural background.....in my country and in America this arrangement I have suggested would be a good deal to anyone with foresight. You suggest that in Poland this would not be a good deal and anyone Polish would hate to live for free on a farm and then inherit it when someone dies. I have to tell you that in this part of Poland a huge amount of families are so poor that they are born in a two room farmhouse......they are brought up in that two room farmhouse, they marry and bring their wife/husband to live in that two room farmhouse, they bring up children in that two room farmhouse along with the children of their brothers and sisters, and then they grow old and die in that two room farmhouse.......I still hope that maybe one of them may have some foresight and perhaps get a little fed up with having to pull out a sofa bed everynight and make up a bed in their corner of the room? And all the time knowing that ownership of the house will only ever go to the eldest son!! (even be he the nastiest creature that ever walked the soil of Poland) You have no idea how many people around here live like that in quiet desperation and I,m sure it happens all over rural Poland. I didn,t make this up, this situation was explained to us by a girl we know......and one of her friends is in an even worse position, she is seventeen and sleeps in a two room house with 5 brothers. This is the countryside, it is raw and smelly, but very beautiful..you should see it in spring and high summer. Good luck to you also.
f stop 25 | 2,513
3 Mar 2013 #119
The difference between you and me might be cultural, bun not in a way you think.
You simply do not understand what a family is.
And we definitely have two different views of what desperation is.
You think it is sleeping on a pull-out couch in a family home.
I think it is looking for someone to leave your earthly possessions to in exchange for a little care.
OP Dreadnought 1 | 143
3 Mar 2013 #120
Correct...I have seen Polish family life...we have many friends here and Polish family life to me would be 'hell on earth' I would rather buy a gun and shoot myself than have to live in the awful (to me) constrictions of Polish family life, I cannot honestly think of anything worse. We have a saying in UK that I find particularly relevant here in Poland......'You can choose your friends, but you cannot choose your family'. I have seen countless cases of people who are unhappy and miserable solely because they are trapped in a Polish family with people they despise and sadly they do not have the money to leave or they most certainly would move to the other end of the Planet just to get away. I have spoken since our last exchange to friends in Denmark, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand and also two other Americans....they also think it would be an absolutely wonderful deal for someone......I am worried for you that I am going to check out every nation on earth and we will find that it is only you who thinks it would be a bad thing.....I am now sorely wishing that a few more Poles would come in on your side and back up your proposition that these poor people, who would inherit my farm would be in a 'Gulag'. My wife in her earlier incarnation (see her in the film.... Ptaki Ptakom - she has the flowers and shoots the nasty German) lived in a little flat with her family and she says it was almost luxury compared to the very 'crammed in' way some of these hill farmers live (she admits that the farmers eat much better).


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